Scratch and China (Discussion on Recent Website Block)

64lu

PrincessPandaLover wrote:
cyx2015s wrote:
ThatOneWeirdDude wrote:
Saying Hong Kong is an independent country is only offending the ccp, im pretty sure the citizens dont care.

WE CARE! WHERE DID YOU FOUND EVIDENCE THAT WE DON'T CARE ABOUT IT?
Hong Kong isn't actually an independent country, it's a region of a country under a separate government (like Puerto Rico to the United States).

note that Puerto Rico is actually also listed as a location

https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/277957993/

DancingNekoGirl

ScratchCatHELLO wrote:
Checked this on four sites that check whether china is blocking any given website. All four returned positive.

Yeah, they blocked it on everything as far as I know.

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gummibear45

But why exactly is Scratch banned?

UnconstructivePoster

gummibear45 wrote:
But why exactly is Scratch banned?

Scratch contains some content that clashes with the Chinese Communist Party's wishes, such as projects/studios that support the Hong Kong protesters, tacit “recognition” (listing) of Hong Kong and Taiwan as separate countries, etc.

To quote this post:

DownsGameClub wrote:
SausageMcSauce wrote:
Byron_Inc wrote:
(…)
Well, it's because there's content that's about Free Hong Kong and No Chinese content on Scratch. I'm an active user in the Chinese sub-forum, so I know about this. I even saw the video that triggered all this mess.

Just a question, what did the video contain (unless it mostly contains content not allowed on Scratch)?
I skimmed the Chinese forums, and it appears to be this video that was uploaded over on BiliBili (a Chinese version of YouTube). For context, this comes from a source named 「四度视频」, lit. Four Degrees Video, which appears to be a short-video type news source.

The translated description (via Google Translate) of the video is as follows:
Four Degrees wrote:
Recently, Four Degrees Video received reports from parents that the official website of the scratch platform, a children’s programming tool commonly used in children’s programming education in China, contains a lot of content that insults China, spreads rumors, and discredited China, and the platform is even included in some provinces and cities as an open source platform. Promoted in the primary school information technology textbook. As an open source platform, does the developer’s ideology affect platform users? Is it possible to penetrate further? Children's programming is an outlet, but it cannot be a “monster”. The localization of the underlying architecture and application platform of programming education should be put on the agenda as soon as possible.

Essentially, the video is about how the Scratch Website supposedly promoted things that tended against China's current polices, especially the “One China Principle,” in which the only “China” that exists is the Mainland and it governs its territories (i.e. Hong-Kong, Taiwan, and Macau). The video describes different complaints about the different ways this policy has been breached by Scratch, particularly:
Taiwan and Hong Kong are listed as separate regions from China (a big no-no when dealing with anything China these days…)
Projects and Studio promoting the current Hong Kong's movement (“Five Demands, Not One Less”)
Projects failing to put Taiwan on a map of China, especially on a “Learn Chinese” project (this part confuses me the most - they should have done more research in understanding the project wasn't directed at defaming China in any sense)
Projects putting the blame on China's government for various things, such as the US-China Trade War (was mentioned in the video, but this is outside the One China Policy stuffs)

Honestly, I'm very surprised they decided to follow through on the decision to ban Scratch. But I guess they thought the free speech that was allowed on the website went a bit too far…

(Edit: Thanks @Broyn_Inc for the spelling correction)

Last edited by UnconstructivePoster (Aug. 17, 2020 17:24:08)

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This is sad

No u

4096bits

ebicanimations wrote:
This is sad

Exactly.

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jiuxiongdi

qrcool wrote:
leogames2016 wrote:
A bit sad… I think it should be temporarily because of mean people trying to swear in Chinese or something that they don't understand.
No, it's because the CCP saw some stuff they didn't like, including, but not limited to, Hong Kong and Taiwan being listed as countries. The ban might be permanent if Scratch doesn't clearly show communist views. That is, if you're talking about why China banned Scratch.

You're right. I think if scratch doesn't change the fact that Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong are countries,in the meantime, scratch won't be allowed to use and access in China.

jiuxiongdi

UnconstructivePoster wrote:
gummibear45 wrote:
But why exactly is Scratch banned?
Scratch contains some content that clashes with the Chinese Communist Party's wishes, such as projects/studios that support the Hong Kong protesters, tacit “recognition” (listing) of Hong Kong and Taiwan as separate countries, etc.

To quote this post:
DownsGameClub wrote:
SausageMcSauce wrote:
Byron_Inc wrote:
(…)
Well, it's because there's content that's about Free Hong Kong and No Chinese content on Scratch. I'm an active user in the Chinese sub-forum, so I know about this. I even saw the video that triggered all this mess.

Just a question, what did the video contain (unless it mostly contains content not allowed on Scratch)?
I skimmed the Chinese forums, and it appears to be this video that was uploaded over on BiliBili (a Chinese version of YouTube). For context, this comes from a source named 「四度视频」, lit. Four Degrees Video, which appears to be a short-video type news source.

The translated description (via Google Translate) of the video is as follows:
Four Degrees wrote:
Recently, Four Degrees Video received reports from parents that the official website of the scratch platform, a children’s programming tool commonly used in children’s programming education in China, contains a lot of content that insults China, spreads rumors, and discredited China, and the platform is even included in some provinces and cities as an open source platform. Promoted in the primary school information technology textbook. As an open source platform, does the developer’s ideology affect platform users? Is it possible to penetrate further? Children's programming is an outlet, but it cannot be a “monster”. The localization of the underlying architecture and application platform of programming education should be put on the agenda as soon as possible.

Essentially, the video is about how the Scratch Website supposedly promoted things that tended against China's current polices, especially the “One China Principle,” in which the only “China” that exists is the Mainland and it governs its territories (i.e. Hong-Kong, Taiwan, and Macau). The video describes different complaints about the different ways this policy has been breached by Scratch, particularly:
Taiwan and Hong Kong are listed as separate regions from China (a big no-no when dealing with anything China these days…)
Projects and Studio promoting the current Hong Kong's movement (“Five Demands, Not One Less”)
Projects failing to put Taiwan on a map of China, especially on a “Learn Chinese” project (this part confuses me the most - they should have done more research in understanding the project wasn't directed at defaming China in any sense)
Projects putting the blame on China's government for various things, such as the US-China Trade War (was mentioned in the video, but this is outside the One China Policy stuffs)

Honestly, I'm very surprised they decided to follow through on the decision to ban Scratch. But I guess they thought the free speech that was allowed on the website went a bit too far…

(Edit: Thanks @Broyn_Inc for the spelling correction)

Exactly, that's why China banned scratch. They think it would have a bad influence on China because Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Macau are listed as countries. But I don't know why scratch team isn't even saying anything about it.

jiuxiongdi

PrincessPandaLover wrote:
cyx2015s wrote:
ThatOneWeirdDude wrote:
Saying Hong Kong is an independent country is only offending the ccp, im pretty sure the citizens dont care.

WE CARE! WHERE DID YOU FOUND EVIDENCE THAT WE DON'T CARE ABOUT IT?
Hong Kong isn't actually an independent country, it's a region of a country under a separate government (like Puerto Rico to the United States).

Right. The citizens also care. Hong Kong, Macau, and Taiwan legally belong to China.

jiuxiongdi

Byron_Inc wrote:
cyx2015s wrote:
ThatOneWeirdDude wrote:
Saying Hong Kong is an independent country is only offending the ccp, im pretty sure the citizens dont care.

WE CARE! WHERE DID YOU FOUND EVIDENCE THAT WE DON'T CARE ABOUT IT?
Please don't shout. It's rude. They didn't say they're 100% sure, just pretty sure.

No, the citizens care, and many support the ccp.

Blueava26

I feel so bad for the scratchers from China for your question I don't know what will happen but hopefully, China will fix this.

mtech22

jiuxiongdi wrote:
-snip- But I don't know why scratch team isn't even saying anything about it.

I beleive they are evaluating the situation to get more of an understanding and will inform us when they can, and have enough information on the subject.

aII toasters toast toast, but what happens when there are no longer toasters being produced? will their technology simply become obsolete, with humans moving onto bigger, better things? will toast become a distant memory, written in textbooks of the future as foods us simpler generations ate? who's to say! society is constantly moving, changing, evolving, ideas being built upon, improved upon, theories being proven or disproven. are we but a blip on the timeline? sure, our names may not be remembered, but that's not the point. you can make a change. you can make a difference. you can make the world better, even if you don't know yet. and the first step is to go for it. even if you are afraid of failure. going back to the example of toasters, do you know off the top of your head who invented them? no? have you used one? probably. so, even if you don't remember my name, if I was able to help awnser your question, that is enough. if I was able to help you, even in the slightest way, this could push you to continue with scratch and not give up after the program crashes, and maybe one day learn other programming languages and change the world. everything is a cause and effect reaction, new inventions lead to the technology of the future, and even as the generations of the past are slowly forgotten, their influence lives on to this day, affecting how the world eventually turned out and how it will be for generations to come.

and, without toasters, we wouldn't have toast.

nirvap

0014049 is from China but he is not banned…

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LegoManiac04

nirvap wrote:
0014049 is from China but he is not banned…

Well, some people use VPNs or other tools to get around the ban.

DownsGameClub

mtech22 wrote:
jiuxiongdi wrote:
-snip- But I don't know why scratch team isn't even saying anything about it.
I beleive they are evaluating the situation to get more of an understanding and will inform us when they can, and have enough information on the subject.

I'd also mention that, for some, this is a very sensitive topic. I discussed my points of view on the subject a bit here, but since this is regarding a site wide matter I'm certain I'm not the only person who has strong feelings about this issue.

Edit:
I feel that some are failing to understand how serious the removal of Taiwan as a country impacts some people, I'm going to restate this from a previous post:

DownsGameClub wrote:
On a personal note, I will refuse to support a website that suddenly decides to agree with the policy that a land that has been operating completely independent from the PRC for over half a century is still considered part of China.

Last edited by DownsGameClub (Aug. 17, 2020 19:54:15)

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Scratcher since Aug. 2015 +++ Fire Alarm Enthusiast +++ College student studying fire protection engineering

jiuxiongdi

Blueava26 wrote:
I feel so bad for the scratchers from China for your question I don't know what will happen but hopefully, China will fix this.

The scratch team needs to remove Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong as countries or change the countries into locations. Otherwise, the chances of scratch being allowed is slim

KyloRenblaster

Oh No

LegoManiac04

jiuxiongdi wrote:
Blueava26 wrote:
I feel so bad for the scratchers from China for your question I don't know what will happen but hopefully, China will fix this.
The scratch team needs to remove Taiwan, Macau, and Hong Kong as countries or change the countries into locations. Otherwise, the chances of scratch being allowed is slim

They probably would also have to ban people's Freedom of Respectful Speech as well, as China also likely isn't happy about things like the “Free Hong Kong” protests, though that's not going to happen-

DancingNekoGirl

KyloRenblaster wrote:
Oh No

Yeah, it's a sad thing but this (banning American
site encouraging free speech) was bound to happen sooner or later. Why Scratch though?

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Yeetoburro1

nirvap wrote:
0014049 is from China but he is not banned…

Technically, he is from Hong Kong.

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