CACO4321- wrote:

also maybe more themes then that and maybe we can make our own themes that would make it better then just dark mode

That is being discussed here.

hi i think dark theme for just the whole thing in general would be good

_WOFDOG_ wrote:

(#3544)
Duplicate, sorry.

That's discussing presets, and optional themes. Not a dark mode option like in this suggestion.

_WOFDOG_ wrote:

Duplicate, sorry.

That topic is discussing presets, while this one is specifically dark mode.
Furthermore, this topic was created 1/2 years before that one.

CACO4321- wrote:

also maybe more themes then that and maybe we can make our own themes that would make it better then just dark mode

That's being suggested here. /offtopic

Edit: Double ninja'd /offtopic

sonic__fan wrote:

(#3477)

DonutsLikesNyanCat wrote:

I dont get how they could get sued for having a dark mode option

This is how they could get sued.

I feel like they could just make it an option to turn on dark mode. Therefore, everybody wins.

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TwoBrothersJump wrote:

sonic__fan wrote:

(#3477)

DonutsLikesNyanCat wrote:

I dont get how they could get sued for having a dark mode option

This is how they could get sued.

I feel like they could just make it an option to turn on dark mode. Therefore, everybody wins.

EXACTLY OMG

Techno-CAT wrote:

Hello

The dark theme existed in Scratch 1x, but the developers got rid of it in 2x.

Why not re-implement it? Sometimes bright white can be straining to the eyes, hence need for an option to enable a dark mode.

Techno

*** Note from the Scratch Team ***

Please don't add links to browser extensions, userstyles or userscripts - that's going against this policy

I TOTALLY agree, it seems weird we have to download add-ons just to not get blinded every time we use the site.

Ok so someone told me to check out this post:

AHypnoman wrote:

Wow I haven't been here in a while.

Only posting as I want to point out that the “it will take them months” argument does not hold water.

First, time is not a reason to not implement a useful feature, especially one that has this level of support. People say that they are working on other ‘more important’ updates, but as updates go this should be a fairly important one given how much it has been requested (this topic alone has 176 pages as of writing which broadly support the suggestion and there are many more people requesting this off-forums).

Second: even if the last point doesn't apply for whatever reason, it wouldn't take them months (let alone 6, which I have also seen people say). This is because the Scratch editor already has dynamic colour options. A dark mode can easily be added by modifying a handful of values in the /lib/themes folder of the source code (in fact, when I looked at the source, there was a dark theme there already, although for some reason it isn't being used: see here).

Third, again, if for some reason the last two points are invalid, a single feature does not take 6 months to make. I'll use myself as an example here: my Scratch ripoff written in JS (albeit simple) took only 3 months to make total. If I, a not-particularly-good JS programmer, can make a simple clone of Scratch in a quarter of a year, how could it possibly take 6 months to change some colours? Aside specific examples, don't make a blanket statement on how long implementing a feature will take: it can vary wildly depending on how many people are working on it, how much time is dedicated, how technically challenging the feature is to implement, and how easy it is to tie it into the rest of the site.

Stop propagating this idea - it's incorrect and damaging discussion on this topic as the argument has swayed from a dark theme to debating the amount of time it takes to implement a feature

I'll respond to a few specific posts:

JACOB3RP wrote:

1. It's made harder by how complicated the code is - would take months at least
2. Yes, but it should be lower on the list as the Scratch Team has to add more updates to not make the site fall out of use.

1. See above (besides the source code of the editor is fairly simple as it's mostly just Blockly with modifications and Blockly was designed to be simple to modify)
2. What updates are so important that the site “would fall out of use” if the weren't implemented?

Elijah999999 wrote:

1.

I earlier wrote:

…moderation and maintenance…

2. You can tell that I linked one of Jvvg's essays. If you don't want to read all that, that's fine, but at least read the titles for each section to see some of the highlights.

Note that I misinterpreted this first point: I thought that the statement that a dark theme would increase the amount of moderation and maintenance needed. See revised version below.
1. How is moderation at all related here? I don't think people are going to be breaking the CGs in some new way because they have access to a dark theme. Also, maintenance would not be significant for a dark theme for two significant reasons: first, it doesn't require new server infrastructure and second they already have the framework for doing this with high contrast so no new client infrastructure would need to be maintained.
2. No, don't just read the subtitles - subtitles can be massively misleading without the right context. Read the full essay or don't read it.


*1. Moderation isn't related in any capacity here: the moderation team is entirely separate to the dev team - there is no resource overlap here. Maintenance for a website like Scratch likely wouldn't be time consuming to the extent that it would prevent feature development - the servers run themselves so maintenance would mostly be keeping libraries up to date, ensuring code still works after browser updates, etc.

Elijah999999 wrote:

1. It's currently accessible enough to get by.

1. With regard to accessibility “enough to get by” is not a valid statement - people have incredibly varying needs and cannot just “get by” with inaccessible sites.

First point is just plainly wrong because alot of people support private messaging and that's not happening. Doesn't really matter if alot of people support this, it's not a good enough reason if you get what I'm saying.

The other points seem to only have to do with time, which is something I was NOT worried about at all when making my posts.

sonic__fan wrote:

indigofunny wrote:

sonic__fan wrote:

indigofunny wrote:

It would take time away from the devs adding more important features. Aesthetics aren't top priority.

What if you have some sort of vision impairment that makes it hard to see on bright screens?yes, vision impairment like this exist

What I'm saying is that if they have trouble seeing with both themes, focus on a theme with bigger contrast.

And that's what they'll do, but right now, the Scratch Team is (hopefully) focusing on the one that's been asked for the most.

indigofunny wrote:

sonic__fan wrote:

Then they shouldn't turn it on. It's an option, it's not required.

I mean a lot of people won't like it. The negativity will be bad.

How do you know that a lot of people won't like it? Have you surveyed everyone on Scratch and asked them their opinion on dark mode?
And again, if they don't like it, then they shouldn't turn it on. If someone is so mad that there's an option for something they don't like, this isn't a Scratch issue, that person just needs to grow up.

Popularity doesn't matter!

I didn't do a survey but I know alot of friends in real life and on disco place that hate it.

And people complained about a high contrast option in the editor eben though it was optional so its nkt like this is unrelsted. You told them to “grow up” but dude this is a kids site! You got to understand kids will complain about major features and hell they still are

indigofunny wrote:

Ok so someone told me to check out this post:
~snip~

First point is just plainly wrong because alot of people support private messaging and that's not happening. Doesn't really matter if alot of people support this, it's not a good enough reason if you get what I'm saying.

The other points seem to only have to do with time, which is something I was NOT worried about at all when making my posts.

There's a level of “within reason” implicit in the first point, so no it isn't “wrong”. Don't try to compare changing styles to implementing DMs as there is no correlation: it's similar to comparing adding high contrast mode to removing the CGs.

Also, I do address your first point in my 2nd and 3rd points, albeit indeirectly; points 2 and 3 both outline how it would not be difficult for devs to implement these changes.

To address your other other points,

1. See above
   
2. No, that isn't how CSS works, at least not for simple colour changes. Compatibility isn't a problem here.
   
3. No because both see previous and also why? What is the reasoning for this?
   
4. This isn't just for “aesthetics”, it's a genuinely beneficial feature. Also, what more important features are the devs working on?
   
5. Then they don't have to turn it on..? What is your point here? This topic is for a dark theme, not a style overhaul.
   
6. See above and also high contrast mode already exists.
   

In response you your other post:

indigofunny wrote:

Popularity doesn't matter!

I didn't do a survey but I know alot of friends in real life and on disco place that hate it.

And people complained about a high contrast option in the editor eben though it was optional so its nkt like this is unrelsted. You told them to “grow up” but dude this is a kids site! You got to understand kids will complain about major features and hell they still are

Yes it does.

Popularity can be used to determine demand for a feature and gauge how useful that feature will be. It really does matter and to think otherwise is utterly absurd.

I sincerely do not believe that you have had friends, both online and in real life, come forwards and tell you how much they hate a currently nonexistent Scratch dark theme.

Nobody complained about the high contrast option. They complained about it before it was an option and they complained about how it wasn't an option outside of the editor. People complaining about something optional clearly aren't in any place to make judgements about features; if you don't like it turn it off - it isn't that hard.

TwoBrothersJump wrote:

I feel like they could just make it an option to turn on dark mode. Therefore, everybody wins.

They are making it an option.

indigofunny wrote:

I didn't do a survey but I know alot of friends in real life and on disco place that hate it.

Then they can turn it off.
Also, when I asked if you made a survey, that was a joke.

indigofunny wrote:

And people complained about a high contrast option in the editor eben though it was optional so its nkt like this is unrelsted. You told them to “grow up” but dude this is a kids site! You got to understand kids will complain about major features and hell they still are

Practically no one complained about high contrast mode being an option, they complained that it was gonna be forced upon them. When it was revealed that this would be an option, all the controversy and arguments died down.
I should know, I was part of these discussions.
Furthermore, if someone is so mad about a feature that they don't have to use, I think they have bigger problems than Scratch having a dark mode.

AHypnoman wrote:

I sincerely do not believe that you have had friends, both online and in real life, come forwards and tell you how much they hate a currently nonexistent Scratch dark theme.

don't be mean

BringUpYourPost wrote:

AHypnoman wrote:

I sincerely do not believe that you have had friends, both online and in real life, come forwards and tell you how much they hate a currently nonexistent Scratch dark theme.

don't be mean

I'm not being mean, just stating it's hard to believe that people have told @indigofunny how much they hate the idea of a dark theme IRL and online outside of Scratch - it isn't something that people would really have an opinion on outside of this topic (or at least Scratch), let alone “hate” the prospect of a dark theme for Scratch enough to tell someone.

sonic__fan wrote:

(#3554)

TwoBrothersJump wrote:

I feel like they could just make it an option to turn on dark mode. Therefore, everybody wins.

They are making it an option.

indigofunny wrote:

I didn't do a survey but I know alot of friends in real life and on disco place that hate it.

Then they can turn it off.
Also, when I asked if you made a survey, that was a joke.

indigofunny wrote:

And people complained about a high contrast option in the editor eben though it was optional so its nkt like this is unrelsted. You told them to “grow up” but dude this is a kids site! You got to understand kids will complain about major features and hell they still are

Practically no one complained about high contrast mode being an option, they complained that it was gonna be forced upon them. When it was revealed that this would be an option, all the controversy and arguments died down.
I should know, I was part of these discussions.
Furthermore, if someone is so mad about a feature that they don't have to use, I think they have bigger problems than Scratch having a dark mode.

I didn't know they were making this an option. my bad. Also where did they say this?

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TwoBrothersJump wrote:

~Snip~
I didn't know they were making this an option. my bad. Also where did they say this?

They haven't said that they're working on a dark theme afaik but there is a WIP one in the Scratch GUI Github repo: link. It hasn't been updated in months last time I checked so IDK if this can really be counted as them working on a dark theme.

AHypnoman wrote:

TwoBrothersJump wrote:

~Snip~
I didn't know they were making this an option. my bad. Also where did they say this?

They haven't said that they're working on a dark theme afaik but there is a WIP one in the Scratch GUI Github repo: link. It hasn't been updated in months last time I checked so IDK if this can really be counted as them working on a dark theme.

the link you sent is for dark mode blocks

BringUpYourPost wrote:

~Snip~
the link you sent is for dark mode blocks

Correct - that was what was being asked about.

AHypnoman wrote:

Yes it does.

Popularity can be used to determine demand for a feature and gauge how useful that feature will be. It really does matter and to think otherwise is utterly absurd.

I sincerely do not believe that you have had friends, both online and in real life, come forwards and tell you how much they hate a currently nonexistent Scratch dark theme.

Nobody complained about the high contrast option. They complained about it before it was an option and they complained about how it wasn't an option outside of the editor. People complaining about something optional clearly aren't in any place to make judgements about features; if you don't like it turn it off - it isn't that hard.

So know it doesn't people complained about the purple and the ST still added it. The ST is the 100% decider of these updates not the community