Discuss Scratch

aidenpons
Scratcher
10 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

I've got an idea. How about instead of trusting others' “better judgement” to add in projects in studios, or adding in a limit, or not letting n00b33z make studios… how about instead it is added the feature of which users must request permission to have their projects added to galleries? People who want projects made by other people added into their galleries must request permission to add certain projects. There would be a GUI showing checkboxes of which projects to request to add, and then a box of which the requesting user is to type in the reason as to why they want them in. This can only be done to that specific user no less than 15 days apart. The users are not allowed to abuse this. This would be a great way of stalling, if not completely stopping, those spam studios.

YUS the quote button works! (call me a noob if you like )

That takes the point out of studios… People should be able to at least ask to put it in a studio. If someone had something which they had to have permission…. this must have been explained several times before so I'm not going to explain it here…

But having to ask if they can be put in just takes the point out of studios in general… It should be the other way round…
(this is probably getting confusing)

You may note my overuse of tongue smileys in my posts…
I don't abuse it. THIS is abusing it:

……__
…_/….\_
..{_.<|>._} - - - - - - - - - A large, spiky object.
…..\__/

…..
PhirripSyrrip
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

cheddargirl wrote:

Hey guys,

I've been looking through some of the reports today, and I'm finding that there are lot of users on either side going to galleries and posting mean comments on them, or sabotaging them by pretending to be on one side but deleting the projects and curators. This has created a lot of work for the ST and is taking time away from other stuff that we want to focus on, such as the upcoming public release of the Scratch 2.0 offline player.

We realize that there is a lot of animosity regarding the state of Add Everything studios. But I suggest everyone on either side start cooling it down. The situation is making Scratch unfriendly, which is against the Community Guidelines. The situation regarding Add Everything studios isn't something to be overly aggressive about here.
Yes, I agree with you and I'll mention that somewhere in the first post.

I think that on this side of the argument, people are just getting impatient. This week especially, there have been lots of projects outlining the problems of Add Everything studios, and I think it is that that is making people on this side of the argument more eager than ever to get rid of Add Everything studios entirely. What would help is if we got some sort of notice about progress being made- if the ST say “we're thinking about it”, then I think more people can wait before raiding other studios. But so far, I think that your comment “We realize that there is a lot of animosity regarding the state of Add Everything studios” has been the only real response from a Scratch Team member regarding the current situation.

The people on the other side of the debate I find much more aggressive and, frankly, impossible to communicate with, although I may be biased. I think that they are just getting unnecessarily angry over the situation, and have probably misunderstood the aim of this “campaign”.

; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;You thought I'd get away from you, didn't you?!
chocolatepenguin
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

cheddargirl wrote:

Hey guys,

I've been looking through some of the reports today, and I'm finding that there are lot of users on either side going to galleries and posting mean comments on them, or sabotaging them by pretending to be on one side but deleting the projects and curators. This has created a lot of work for the ST and is taking time away from other stuff that we want to focus on, such as the upcoming public release of the Scratch 2.0 offline player.

We realize that there is a lot of animosity regarding the state of Add Everything studios. But I suggest everyone on either side start cooling it down. The situation is making Scratch unfriendly, which is against the Community Guidelines. The situation regarding Add Everything studios isn't something to be overly aggressive about here.
I probably sent most of them. ************ was saying stuff like “Delete the Stop AE campaign!”

comp500
Scratcher
100+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Agree…


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scratch_marziale
Scratcher
22 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

cheddargirl wrote:

Hey guys,

I've been looking through some of the reports today, and I'm finding that there are lot of users on either side going to galleries and posting mean comments on them, or sabotaging them by pretending to be on one side but deleting the projects and curators. This has created a lot of work for the ST and is taking time away from other stuff that we want to focus on, such as the upcoming public release of the Scratch 2.0 offline player.

We realize that there is a lot of animosity regarding the state of Add Everything studios. But I suggest everyone on either side start cooling it down. The situation is making Scratch unfriendly, which is against the Community Guidelines. The situation regarding Add Everything studios isn't something to be overly aggressive about here.

Cheddargirl is right. Maybe we should just cool down a little bit. It's not like it's the end of the world when someone adds your project to a studio. On the other hand, add everything studios are kind of pointless. But let's not get in a big argument about who is right or wrong.
But thats just my opinion.

Last edited by scratch_marziale (Aug. 26, 2013 11:48:42)


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Rumanti
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

cheddargirl wrote:

Hey guys,

I've been looking through some of the reports today, and I'm finding that there are lot of users on either side going to galleries and posting mean comments on them, or sabotaging them by pretending to be on one side but deleting the projects and curators. This has created a lot of work for the ST and is taking time away from other stuff that we want to focus on, such as the upcoming public release of the Scratch 2.0 offline player.

We realize that there is a lot of animosity regarding the state of Add Everything studios. But I suggest everyone on either side start cooling it down. The situation is making Scratch unfriendly, which is against the Community Guidelines. The situation regarding Add Everything studios isn't something to be overly aggressive about here.

No matter which side I am, good or bad, I will try to cool down. I really worry that this thing that seems small will end Scratch >.< And I'm not lying or just creating dramas. And yes, it looks that either Scratchers from both sides are ready to “#$%#%$#%” each other, and again, against Community Guidelines.

:wq
Lightnin
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

scratch_marziale wrote:

Cheddargirl is right. Maybe we should just cool down a little bit. It's not like it's the end of the world when someone adds your project to a studio. On the other hand, add everything studios are kind of pointless. But let's not get in a big argument about who is right or wrong.
But thats just my opinion.

I agree! Doesn't make sense to attack somebody for doing something that, when it comes down to it, really isn't that harmful to anyone. And being rude or mean on Scratch is never justified - even when the other person is doing something that you think is mean or rude.

Could someone summarize the suggested solutions? The first post is quite a mega wall! Nice that you spent so much energy and effort creating it - but can you maybe make a short version?

Rumanti wrote:

No matter which side I am, good or bad, I will try to cool down. I really worry that this thing that seems small will end Scratch >.< And I'm not lying or just creating dramas. And yes, it looks that either Scratchers from both sides are ready to “#$%#%$#%” each other, and again, against Community Guidelines.

Don't worry - we've had worse dramas! Remind me to tell you about “No more cats….” sometime. XD

Last edited by Lightnin (Aug. 26, 2013 13:55:48)

PullJosh
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Lightnin wrote:

Remind me to tell you about “No more cats….” sometime. XD

Make a project about it! I gotta hear this!
Lightnin
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Ah, I think I understand the proposal - so I'll just summarize myself here by quoting best I can:



PhirripSyrrip wrote:

Conclusion: I think that the best plan to solve the problem of “add everything” studios would be to combine solutions 2, 5, 6 and 7.

Which are:

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

• Notify Users when a Project is added to any Studio- I fully support this idea- it's always nice to know when something has happened to any of your projects. You get notifications for love-its, favourites, remixes so why not when it's added to a studio? However, while this would be a nice thing to see added, it doesn't actually solve any of the problems mentioned in point one. Fine, at least you'll know that your project is becoming less and less relevant but there's nothing you can do about it.

I believe this will be added when the rewrite of the notifications system is complete! Should be in the next week or so, but we've had delays before, so I can't swear to it. (It's a big job re-factoring the entire messaging system!)

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

• Discourage “add everything” studios- The easiest option and least troublesome. The ST could mention somewhere that projects should be put in studios for a reason and that you shouldn't just accept anything. All of you can help to discourage “add everything” studios- merely by replying to this post you're bumping it up for more owners of “add everything” studios to see that lots of people dislike them.

Well, I'm not so sure that makes sense. Often when there's a problem - or a fad that some don't like on the community - folk's will suggest that the Scratch Team ban whatever it is that they find annoying. But if we start spending all our time doing that, we won't have as much time for other cool and important stuff. While I'm not a big fan of add everything studios either, I can see that “this too shall pass.” And a great deal of the ones people have been finding by googling are super old inactive ancient ones that no one has cared about for years, until they suddenly get brought up in this debate. So seriously: once we can ignore them, and let the drama die down, the add everything studios will die down too.

In other words: sometimes fighting something gives it more strength.

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

• Hide “add everything” studios from the list of studios that a project is in- And so we come to my favourite solution. Let me explain it:
The idea is that creators of projects can choose which studios to hide from the list of studios that a project is in that appears next to the project. The project will still be in all the “add everything” studios but they won't appear in the list of studios. This means that the list of ten studios contains only studios that the creator has approved of being seen and hides any that just take up space. When you click “view all studios this project is in” you'll see all the studios, including the “add everything” ones. I think that this idea works to best for the creator of the project, the viewers and the owners of “add everything” studios.

Now we get to the meat of the problem! They're too spammy, and kind of gum up our studio promotion system. @ricarose and @champ99 are doing a lot of thinking about studios - I'll definitely ping them about this, so we can make sure that future version of the user interface don't encourage spammy studios. (That said, spam is never completely solved - on here or on the whole internets. So some patience is always required.

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

• Limit the number of projects in “add everything” studios- while this won't end the problem, it will limit it. By capping it at, say, 500-1,000 projects, I'd say that we are getting rid of all studios except for the useful studios. Any studio that intends to get its projects seen in the way that most studios are meant for should have less than 1,000 projects. Studios that are part of collaborations that make more projects and could overstep the limit could just remove old projects added to the studio. However, Paddle2See suggested a problem this may have here.

Definitely worth thinking about! I could imagine doing it by rate limit as well - like you can only add 100 projects per week or something. That way big / long term communities built around studios could still continue after they hit 500. But spammy ones would hit the limit, and have to wait (and that generally cools off the enthusiasm, if you have to remember to start adding more spam projects a week later.)

Last edited by Lightnin (Aug. 26, 2013 17:35:00)

PhirripSyrrip
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

lightnin wrote:

Could someone summarize the suggested solutions? The first post is quite a mega wall! Nice that you spent so much energy and effort creating it - but can you maybe make a short version?
Sure, it sort of grew over time…
The problems that they cause: (I've just collected what others have said)
1. They overcrowd the studios sidebar when you view a project, making purposeful studios harder to be seen.

2. Can encourage spam projects as some studios become desperate to reach their target of “1,000,000 projects!” or whatever figure is attached to this title.

3. Personally upset some users, sort of like saying “this project that took a month to make is worth just as much as this one that took two minutes to make. It's just another average project”

4. Makes it harder for viewers of projects to find relevant studios- who really looks at the studio list, sees an AE studio and gets interested in that, rather than a carefully selected studio of similar projects?

Solutions: (Note: Again, I do not agree to all of these, I've just listed suggestions that other users have posted)

1. Ban AE Studios

2. Send users notifications when projects are added to studios

3. Ask Scratcher's permission before adding a project to a studio (quite popular)

4. Let users remove their own projects from studios (also quite popular)

5. Get the ST to discourage AE studios.

6. Let project owners get to choose which studios appear in the sidebar (most popular, I think). There could be an option to hide certain studios from the list, if they are taking up space and blocking out purposeful studios.

7. Limit the number of project in a studio.

8. Only allow Scratchers to create studios.

Last edited by PhirripSyrrip (Aug. 26, 2013 14:16:05)


; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;You thought I'd get away from you, didn't you?!
Wes64
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

I'm glad the Scratch Team is thinking about this. It's probably my fault people started to spam/flame on other studios because I was a well-known user who posted opposition. I apologise for any flaming I have caused, I tried my best to discourage it.

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mario91100
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

cheddargirl wrote:

Hey guys,

I've been looking through some of the reports today, and I'm finding that there are lot of users on either side going to galleries and posting mean comments on them, or sabotaging them by pretending to be on one side but deleting the projects and curators. This has created a lot of work for the ST and is taking time away from other stuff that we want to focus on, such as the upcoming public release of the Scratch 2.0 offline player.

We realize that there is a lot of animosity regarding the state of Add Everything studios. But I suggest everyone on either side start cooling it down. The situation is making Scratch unfriendly, which is against the Community Guidelines. The situation regarding Add Everything studios isn't something to be overly aggressive about here.

Yeah. The problem is that almost everybody thinks this is a war. I think it is spiraling out of control at a frightening rate. If something doesn't cool off fast, we all will be in trouble. This doesn't need to be taken so seriously to the point of flaming and trolling other users. In fact, as you said, it makes Scratch look bad in a way.
ClayChips
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

I have 15 more studios right in this project:
http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/12008006/

ClayChips, once had a legendary account called fetchydog567 now just a noob. Waiting to become just the same as his old account. But now, as the time goes by, I know now that i'm not a noob! I'm back! :D



ClayChips
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

And 62,500 more here:
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=add+everything&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=scratch.mit.edu&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=#as_qdr=all&fp=9dd75234e994c926&lr=&q=add+everything+site:scratch.mit.edu&safe=images&start=10

ClayChips, once had a legendary account called fetchydog567 now just a noob. Waiting to become just the same as his old account. But now, as the time goes by, I know now that i'm not a noob! I'm back! :D



Chainmanner
Scratcher
100+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Perhaps we should ditch this discussion, and maybe even pretend they don't exist, for a while, see if Lightnin's thought about fighting it would spill gas on the fire. That way, if we don't give them the attention they want, it'll die out!

And also like he said, there should have that limit added, effectively constraining the spam galleries.

Last edited by Chainmanner (Aug. 26, 2013 20:43:28)

mitchboy
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

ClayChips wrote:

And 62,500 more here:
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=add+everything&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=scratch.mit.edu&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=#as_qdr=all&fp=9dd75234e994c926&lr=&q=add+everything+site:scratch.mit.edu&safe=images&start=10
Yes, but if you look through the results, a lot of posts on this topic are on there.

Lightnin wrote:

Definitely worth thinking about! I could imagine doing it by rate limit as well - like you can only add 100 projects per week or something. That way big / long term communities built around studios could still continue after they hit 500. But spammy ones would hit the limit, and have to wait (and that generally cools off the enthusiasm, if you have to remember to start adding more spam projects a week later.)
That sounds like an even better idea.

Capsicum annuum.
Lightnin
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

ClayChips wrote:

And 62,500 more here:
http://www.google.com/search?as_q=add+everything&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=scratch.mit.edu&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=#as_qdr=all&fp=9dd75234e994c926&lr=&q=add+everything+site:scratch.mit.edu&safe=images&start=10

The second page of results - (not that low - maybe > 20!) has a studio that had one comment in July - prior to that, the last comment was from December.

Do you really think it's such a problem if 61,480 results were created before this issue was even raised? Seems like ignoring them was working pretty well till this became all dramatic.

Last edited by Lightnin (Aug. 26, 2013 20:49:08)

mario91100
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Lightnin wrote:

The second page of results - (not that low - maybe > 20!) has a studio that had one comment in July - prior to that, the last comment was from December.

Do you really think it's such a problem if 61,480 results were created before this issue was even raised? Seems like ignoring them was working pretty well till this became all dramatic.

*laughs*
Chainmanner
Scratcher
100+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Lightnin wrote:

Do you really think it's such a problem if 61,480 results were created before this issue was even raised? Seems like ignoring them was working pretty well till this became all dramatic.
Of course, perhaps had nobody paid attention this wouldn't have been so problematic.

Last edited by Chainmanner (Aug. 26, 2013 21:04:31)

LeDerpy123
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

ClayChips wrote:

I have 15 more studios right in this project:
http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/12008006/
It's truly a pain, isn't it?
300th post!

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