Discuss Scratch

PhirripSyrrip
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Hello everybody,

Please don't be put off by the hideously long length of this post, bear with me! At least read sections 1 and 5.

This post aims to solve the current problem of the countless studios that aim to “add every project”. Notice the wording of this campaign- I don't intend to get them all deleted from the website, there are several other solutions which I will outline in this post. As this post is very long, I'll try to get the most important info across at the start and then let me know if you support this and what you think.

Contents:
1. Are these studios really a problem?
2. What are studios meant to be for?
3. Are “add everything” studios really that useless?
4. But what does the Scratch Team think?
5. Possible Solutions
6. Supporters
7. How many of these studios are there?
  1. Are these studios really a problem?
    At the time of writing, this project was recently featured. It was in 55 studios. 25 of them were “add everything” studios (45%).
    The way I see it, there is a problem for two parties: the creator of the project and the viewers.

    Creator's problem: Imagine if you spend days if not weeks if not months on a project to try to make it the best it possibly can be. Your project is themed on, say, Medieval England and you want to share your knowledge to teach other people. You spend a very long time perfecting and improving it in the hope that people will view it, think “Hey, this project's really cool, I never knew Medieval England was so interesting, where can I find out more?” at which point they will see your studio for Medieval England and can find all your other projects about different topics of Medieval England. The viewer discovers a new love of a subject and the creator's aim of getting more people interested in Medieval England is achieved.

    Here's how the “add everything” studios mess everything up. There is only room for ten studios to appear with a project and their vertical arrangement mean that only the first three or four are really seen by the viewer. Being a well-made project, it attracts attention and is added to seventy galleries. Some of these are relevant. Many others are not. Then, the odds of a relevant studio of reaching those precious three or four positions next to the project harshly drop. People will view the project. People will like the project. People will comment “Cool Project!” and “Awesome ”.

    What's missing, however, is that crucial next stage that the creator intended, the part where the viewer is interested in a project and wants to find out more but they can't as it looks like this is the only project of its sort when in fact the creator had spent a lot of time and effort to create a studio where there are similar projects. Then the distractions of the internet carry the viewer away and they forget everything they learnt. The Scratch motto is Imagine, Program, Share. Well, it looks like the creator isn't getting much help sharing.

    Another problem for the creator caused by these “add everything” studios is more of a personal one, but I have seen it many times before.

    When a project is added to lots of “add everything” studios, it's basically saying “this project that took two weeks to make is just as good as this one which took two minutes. Just another average project.” There are users who go through this thought process, including myself. This point is especially true if the only studios that a project is added to are these “add everything” studios.

    Viewer's problem: One of the links on the blue bar at the top of every page is “Explore”. All of these “add everything” studios are just making it harder for people to explore topics. As curiouscrab put it:

    curiouscrab wrote:

    When I try to search let's say "everything about [topic name]“ or ”everything [topic name]" the search results are a ton of add everything studios.
    The “add everything” studios are just noise- they don't help people including the viewer in the above example.

    We also need to think about the creators of these studios. Do we really want them to focus on these studios instead of using Scratch as it's meant to be used?

    I also have some evidence to suggest that spam studios can encourage spam projects, as I explained in this post.

    If you still feel unclear as to why “add everything” studios need removing, have a look at some of the responses to this post- some people make very good points unmentioned here.

    chocolatepenguin made a great studio collecting projects that other users have made to try and solve the problem of “add everything” studios.

  2. What are Studios meant to be for?
    Here's a paragraph from the Scratch Wiki page for galleries (basically the same as studios):
    Use:

    Galleries are used for any of the following:

    • Sources to view projects of a certain type
    • Displaying past curator picks
    • Company headquarters
    • RPG grounds
    • Organizing contest entries

    There is no specific use for a gallery — they can be used for anything.
    If only studios stuck to those first five points. Unfortunately, user's freedom of the final line of the extract has been misused and so I am now writing this. You might think “Surely a useless studio should be treated as spam, just like a useless comment”.

  3. Are “add everything” studios really that useless?
    A quote from a Scratcher who is pro-add-everything:
    They are a good way of sharing your videos. Lots of people go on the studio so loads of people see your vids.
    Ignoring the fact that s/he seems to think Scratch = YouTube, this is a common argument for why they should be allowed. But is it really true?

    I went to the most popular “add everything” studio that I could be bothered to find (133 followers) and viewed a few projects. Most had 10-30 views. There were a few more popular ones but it would seen that they were positively correlated to user-popularity instead of their presence in the “add everything” studio. I then viewed some projects of some perhaps less well-known Scratchers that follow me and found that they too had 10-30 views and were not added in any of these “add everything” studios. Criticise me if my methods are faulty but my conclusion is that the arguments of the Scratcher I quoted above are wrong. “Add everything” studios do not increase views for “vids”.

    The problem is that popular studios like the one that I linked to have such a fast rate of adding projects and so are less likely to be seen. Less popular ones with a lower rate of adding projects have fewer followers to view them.

    But I ask myself if the projects in “add everything” studios are really meant to be viewed? I'm pretty sure that they're not. Rather, the purpose I think is because people who curate these studios only focus on the numbers. They only care about the number of followers, the number of projects and they don't seem to think about the impacts made in point one of this post.

  4. But what does the Scratch Team think?
    I've seen several posts floating about saying that the ST don't intend to take action. I found this post of Paddle2See on this issue:

    Paddle2See wrote:

    I'm not a big fan of “add everything” studios. They don't help people find projects with a particular theme - because they have no theme and accept anything. It's possible, though, that they might serve a social purpose, if they can attract enough people interested in seeing the studio grow larger. It doesn't cost the site much to host them - just a few more thousand rows in the project-studio relationship table. And there is nothing in the Community Guidelines that says that a studio needs to have a specific theme - so they might as well enjoy their project collections
    Personally, I agree with absolutely everything that Paddle2See said, even the final part: "so they might as well enjoy their project collections " The purpose of this post is to highlight some issues that perhaps the ST did not think about, those stated in point one of this post. And to propose some solutions. So, without further ado…

  5. Possible Solutions

    Ban “add everything” studios- A popular solution among many Scratchers but it does have many problems. I think that it is extremely immoral and would be disheartening to go to someone who has created an “add everything” studio and delete it on the basis that it is “useless”. Alright, you can disguise this by banning it on the basis of “spam”, but think about this: apart from the fact that many “add everything” studios have “add everything” in their name (often capitalised), it would be hard to prove that a studio is in fact an “add everything” studio. Someone could name a studio “Projects” but use it as an “add everything” studio. It would be hard to prove whether the user was in fact creating a banned “add everything” studio or in fact they just found lots and lots of projects really interesting and thought that it deserved being in the studio. Again, the Scratch motto is “Imagine, Program, Share”, so how can you stop people from sharing things that they want? As Paddle2See said, they don't break the Community Guidelines.

    Notify Users when a Project is added to any Studio- I fully support this idea- it's always nice to know when something has happened to any of your projects. You get notifications for love-its, favourites, remixes so why not when it's added to a studio? However, while this would be a nice thing to see added, it doesn't actually solve any of the problems mentioned in point one. Fine, at least you'll know that your project is becoming less and less relevant but there's nothing you can do about it.

    Ask Scratcher's Permission to add their projects to a studio- Again, a nice idea but it does have flaws. What if you're making a studio of “Awesome Games” and you want add projects to it. The problem is, what if you want to add a project of a user who is no longer active? Then you'd be stuck. This idea would create limitations to studios and make them less useful.

    You could have an “activity” score for each user, graded just like volcanoes as Active, Dormant or Extinct. If a user is not active, there would be no need to have their permission before you can add their project to a studio. However, this does have drawbacks- what if a user is on camp or on holiday and can't access the internet to accept or deny these requests. By this system, either the projects will be added without the creator knowing, defeating the purpose of asking for permission, or the person who wants to add the projects has to wait a long time for the creator to get back and then the projects will be added. This would disrupt fluency and I can't see how this idea would work. You don't need permission to remix so why do you need permission to add it to a studio?

    Let users remove their own projects from studios- Another popular idea which seems nice at first, but the only problem with this that I can see is that people may start removing all their projects from every studio that they are in which again damages the freedom that studios should have. Again, you can't remove remixes of your project so why should you remove projects from studios?

    Discourage “add everything” studios- The easiest option and least troublesome. The ST could mention somewhere that projects should be put in studios for a reason and that you shouldn't just accept anything. All of you can help to discourage “add everything” studios- merely by replying to this post you're bumping it up for more owners of “add everything” studios to see that lots of people dislike them.

    Hide “add everything” studios from the list of studios that a project is in- And so we come to my favourite solution. Let me explain it:
    The idea is that creators of projects can choose which studios to hide from the list of studios that a project is in that appears next to the project. The project will still be in all the “add everything” studios but they won't appear in the list of studios. This means that the list of ten studios contains only studios that the creator has approved of being seen and hides any that just take up space. When you click “view all studios this project is in” you'll see all the studios, including the “add everything” ones. I think that this idea works to best for the creator of the project, the viewers and the owners of “add everything” studios.

    Limit the number of projects in “add everything” studios- while this won't end the problem, it will limit it. By capping it at, say, 500-1,000 projects, I'd say that we are getting rid of all studios except for the useful studios. Any studio that intends to get its projects seen in the way that most studios are meant for should have less than 1,000 projects. Studios that are part of collaborations that make more projects and could overstep the limit could just remove old projects added to the studio. However, Paddle2See suggested a problem this may have here.

    Only allow Scratchers to create Studios- again, this won't end the problem entirely, but if you look at most “add everything” studios, they have been created by New Scratchers seeking fame. This rule would limit those studios while New Scratchers learn of better ways to get fame (such as making good projects, or posting on the forums).

Supporters:
  1. PhirripSyrrip
  2. DotDash
  3. dracae
  4. turkey3
  5. SuperNicky
  6. ProdigyZeta7
  7. BobStanley
  8. numberonegamers
  9. cheeseeater
  10. StarscreamClone
  11. krish15
  12. mitchboy
  13. LeDerpy123
  14. blueservine
  15. Firedrake969
  16. jh1234l
  17. Williamja
  18. joshuaho
  19. zorket
  20. Failord
  21. seanbobe
  22. Wes64
  23. FrozenFIsh13
  24. lauraisawsome
  25. Eintity
  26. Flyboy
  27. skeletonxf
  28. chocolatepenguin
  29. PH-zero
  30. eaglgenes101
  31. mario91100
  32. Kenichi10
  33. clubpenguin552222
  34. GreenDog3
  35. WeElites
  36. coinman
  37. curiouscrab
  38. creative_scratcher
  39. mariobros406
  40. mikey350
  41. ToxicQuillz
  42. aidenpoms
  43. Rumanti
  44. my2ndaccount
  45. tcodina
  46. Spyderblade
  47. WacksPoop
  48. Iamoldsam10
  49. dragon321
  50. V360
  51. Redsox5803
  52. digger101
  53. Snowdragon101
  54. ralpher
  55. belugawhale
  56. Nyan_Cat_Rules
  57. DAwesme
  58. LuxrayStar
  59. DalmationCat
  60. sockman101
  61. TechnolgyGuy
  62. Happiny-64
  63. miniclipper
  64. creative_scratcher
  65. WindowsExplorer
  66. epninja
  67. dr3w8
  68. nathan_tanara
  69. sindybad
  70. CodeCube
  71. dsaztur
  72. lunaluvgood
  73. sportsdude6
  74. Chainmanner
  75. cubby208
  76. joefarebrother
  77. BigBlueBlock
  78. SilverEagle
  79. LiquidMetal
  80. PJ9
  81. oshe10
  82. Math_Addict
  83. Ean173
  84. A-no-meep
  85. miraklemax
  86. davidkt
  87. Scratch12300
  88. Blazingwave
  89. Asecretalt
  90. ACTlynkirk
  91. TurtleyCreations
  92. Metalwasp
  93. KPX
  94. comp500
  95. tickl3r
  96. summerscratch12

Conclusion: I think that the best plan to solve the problem of “add everything” studios would be to combine solutions 2, 5, 6 and 7. Thank you for reading if you've gotten this far! Tell me what you think. Do you support my proposal? I'll add you to the list of supporters. Tell me if you've got a solution I haven't listed.

How many of these studios are there?
LeDerpy123 calculated that it looks like there are at least 50,000 of these studios.

LeDerpy123 wrote:

I have a new statistic to report.
I did a Google Advanced Search and found that there are about 3,550 studios that contain the exact phrase, “add all projects”.
1,110 containing “add everything”.
213 containing “biggest gallery”.
33 containing “biggest studio”.
47,800 containing “add your projects”.
This adds up to 52,706 ae studios and counting!
BTW, this is the search term I used: “insert studio name here” site:scratch.mit.edu/studios
There were also 11,700 for “Add all your projects”.
I was shocked when I saw just how many of these there are- I thought I was just seeing the same one over and over again. Here is a very much incomplete list, started by curiouscrab but I've added many more:

{list removed by moderator. Please do not single out AE studio, as that can be seen as an attack on their creators}

Last edited by PhirripSyrrip (Aug. 28, 2013 18:11:43)


; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;You thought I'd get away from you, didn't you?!
drmcw
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Nicely argued points and before I was of the opinion that if that's what someone wants to do then let them, it doesn't affect me. I can see that there is an argument to control which studios appear with your project. I'm afraid I don't have an answer to that though without first knowing what the criteria are for the studios that do appear with a project..

Last edited by drmcw (Aug. 14, 2013 19:29:32)


10 !
ScratchVaders or Galaga?
Maybe Eliza can help you decide?
DotDash
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

this is really good I support the solutions that you support

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scimonster
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

The last solution you posted seems like the best to me - let the project owner decided which studios get shown in the sidebar.
When i was a young Scratcher, i used add everything studios in the hopes that they would get viewed more. It didn't really work very well.

BTW, you might want to change the all-caps title…

Retired Community Moderator
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dracae
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Expertly written campaign!

I have to support…

turkey3
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Support!

SuperNicky
Scratcher
100+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

umm yeah I've been In a conversation like this before I became a scratcher I'm begging to think If a user adds a Super good project to a studio (a add everything studio) then another user see's it what is getting the more popularity the user or the studio Who? The studio does




I say: its the person who gets the credit NOT THE STUDIO!

So I think Spam studios ,add everything studios are unfair and it should be banned because people would think the studio is better

Last edited by SuperNicky (Aug. 14, 2013 20:47:19)


ProdigyZeta7
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

I have a few thoughts to share:

1. If the ST discourage long quote chains because they take up excess bandwidth, why do the allow AE studios with 10000+ projects?

2. At some point in time, all the AE studios together will take up a considerable amount of server space, if not already.

3. They encourage spamming, they are targets for trolling, and they don't really provide the reward of “This project deserves to be in this studio.”

4. Nothing says “Support” more than a user cringing at distracting studio images. That user is me.



turkey3
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

I have a few thoughts to share:

1. If the ST discourage long quote chains because they take up excess bandwidth, why do the allow AE studios with 10000+ projects?

2. At some point in time, all the AE studios together will take up a considerable amount of server space, if not already.

3. They encourage spamming, they are targets for trolling, and they don't really provide the reward of “This project deserves to be in this studio.”

4. Nothing says “Support” more than a user cringing at distracting studio images. That user is me.
We should have to accept our project to enter a studio by a notification (sorry if that's mentioned above; too lazy to read entirely)

Edit: turkey, you've done it again!

Last edited by turkey3 (Aug. 14, 2013 22:03:10)


DotDash
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

turkey3 wrote:

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

I have a few thoughts to share:

1. If the ST discourage long quote chains because they take up excess bandwidth, why do the allow AE studios with 10000+ projects?

2. At some point in time, all the AE studios together will take up a considerable amount of server space, if not already.

3. They encourage spamming, they are targets for trolling, and they don't really provide the reward of “This project deserves to be in this studio.”

4. Nothing says “Support” more than a user cringing at distracting studio images. That user is me.
We should have to accept our project to enter a studio by a notification (sorry if that's mentioned above; too lazy to read entirely)
Yep that's already one of the solutions

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turkey3
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

The solution, is quite simple: they should simply make a rule that states "studios must have a genre or theme to them, meaning you cannot create a studio that adds every project." That way, when they do ban them, the ST can give them a link to that rule.

BobStanley
Scratcher
100+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

+1

dracae made this picture V | Like a Glover | Tau is awesome | dracae also made that GIF >, Flash 11.8 (release 800)
PhirripSyrrip
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

scimonster wrote:

The last solution you posted seems like the best to me - let the project owner decided which studios get shown in the sidebar.
When i was a young Scratcher, i used add everything studios in the hopes that they would get viewed more. It didn't really work very well.

BTW, you might want to change the all-caps title…
Sidebar! That's the expression I was looking for

; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;You thought I'd get away from you, didn't you?!
numberonegamers
Scratcher
100+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Wow! I never thought of the negatives of add all studios but now since you mention it, I don't like them that much. Full support. Especially getting notitifications when a project is in a studio!
cheeseeater
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

+1 for Discourage “add everything” studios. On one of the studios I saw the creator said that they didn't care what they were. And so I go on to projects trying to help scratchers are just added without being glanced at. I also dislike “PUT PROJECTS IN FOR PRIZES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!” studios, as they are not the point of scratch. You get loves, faves and follows, these should be stoped…
dusty22
Scratcher
100+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Okay I can understand a studio that is something like “Add Everything about History” or “Add your Favorite Games” or at least has a specific subject. But just “add” EVERYTHING? Are you serious?

Like the Megaman X series? Want to make Megaman games in Scratch? Check out my studio here, The Megaman X Scratch Engine.
StarscreamClone
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

scimonster wrote:

The last solution you posted seems like the best to me - let the project owner decided which studios get shown in the sidebar.
When i was a young Scratcher, i used add everything studios in the hopes that they would get viewed more. It didn't really work very well.

BTW, you might want to change the all-caps title…
+1

I also think a project owner should get a choice whether it gets added or not.

The notification could work like the curator invitation;
(so and so) would like to add your project (project name here) to the studio (such and such). Click here to accept.

Opportunistic Starscream is opportunistic.
krish15
Scratcher
52 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

StarscreamClone wrote:

scimonster wrote:

The last solution you posted seems like the best to me - let the project owner decided which studios get shown in the sidebar.
When i was a young Scratcher, i used add everything studios in the hopes that they would get viewed more. It didn't really work very well.

BTW, you might want to change the all-caps title…
+1

I also think a project owner should get a choice whether it gets added or not.

The notification could work like the curator invitation;
(so and so) would like to add your project (project name here) to the studio (such and such). Click here to accept.

Great idea! I support.

~ Krish15

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scimonster
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

If the ST discourage long quote chains because they take up excess bandwidth, why do the allow AE studios with 10000+ projects?
That's actually not why they discourage long quote chains - it's because they are really a form of spam, and make posts harder to read.

StarscreamClone wrote:

I also think a project owner should get a choice whether it gets added or not.

The notification could work like the curator invitation;
(so and so) would like to add your project (project name here) to the studio (such and such). Click here to accept.
As long as users have the ability to remove their own projects from studios, it would be fine. The 1.4 site had that.

To those wanting to ban AE studios - sorry, but i don't think it's happening. If you don't want your projects in them, you can ask a studio curator to remove your projects from it.

Retired Community Moderator
BTW, i run Google Chrome 41.0.2272.101 on a Linux system - Ubuntu 14.04. NEW: iPad 4th gen. w/retina.

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dracae
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

krish15 wrote:

StarscreamClone wrote:

scimonster wrote:

The last solution you posted seems like the best to me - let the project owner decided which studios get shown in the sidebar.
When i was a young Scratcher, i used add everything studios in the hopes that they would get viewed more. It didn't really work very well.

BTW, you might want to change the all-caps title…
+1

I also think a project owner should get a choice whether it gets added or not.

The notification could work like the curator invitation;
(so and so) would like to add your project (project name here) to the studio (such and such). Click here to accept.

Great idea! I support.
Did you guys even read the whole first post? ;P

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