Discuss Scratch

GlitchedThrough
New to Scratch
1000+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

GlitchedThrough wrote:

RecessFailsOffical wrote:

starlightsparker wrote:

I say 100 characters instead

That's too short.
You can get a lot of detail in under 100 words without adding in worthless statements that add nothing to the suggestion.
The bare minimum to a suggestion is that it makes sense, so no minimum word count would allow this to remain.
200 isn't that much once you actually type it out. If you care about your suggestion, then you should say more about it, so people will be less confused and it'd be easier to work out problems.
Not everyone is capable of longer suggestions, nor should they be forced to talk more about a feature when they can't.
I know when I have to add 200 characters to something, I just can't.

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
YouTuber, culinary enthusiast, computer scientist, programmer, Engineer, electric enthusiast, legal aficionado, etc
The-Sushi-Cat
Scratcher
500+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

snip
Not everyone is capable of longer suggestions, nor should they be forced to talk more about a feature when they can't.
I know when I have to add 200 characters to something, I just can't.

RecessFailsOffical wrote:

The hide block would be a block that can hide the current sprite. It would be in “Looks” because it changes the sprite's appearance. It could be used if you were trying to make the sprite do something later in your project, but not at a designated time.

253 characters

Last edited by The-Sushi-Cat (March 4, 2024 15:28:33)


Making a counterargument? Look here first!
An evil kumquat ate my first username lol

Call me Sushi!

They/He/It/She in order of preference

A little part of me dies inside when someone says, “He/She” instead of just using they-

Try to refrain from saying, ‘No support’. It comes off as extremely negative. “The forums are for criticism! Don't post it you don't want it!” Agreed. But I never said that you should agree with everyone. No suggestion will ever be perfect
What sounds more constructive?
“No support, people would spam with it”
“This would lead to a lot of spam, since people can't get away from it. Not to mention, it might upset a few people with the way it's implemented”

In #1, you didn't help OP at all. You said you didn't like it, and why. Nothing else. Not even what was causing the issue of spam
In #2, you pointed out the flaws and the root causes of them. Flaws shouldn't always get a suggestion absolutely ignored

And simply supporting doesn't always help either. It's not a voting system, it's improving your ideas. There's going to be cons, there's going to be flaws, and that's the point of the suggestions. No suggestion is ever 100% perfect in any way
Here are some things you can look out for:
-Are there any flaws/cons that haven't been addressed or fixed?
-Is this idea fully flushed out? Or are there some questions you can ask?
-Are there any flaws that you know how to fix or do you know how to flush something out a bit more?
-Is there anyone else who is confused and needs some clarification?

If you don't have to do any of these, then you can move on!

Is a suggestion unable to be added because it's just impossible? Point out why and have them decide what to do next
But still, try not to say ‘no support’
RecessFailsOffical
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

bump

highlight (double click) a piece of text + control (command if on mac) + shift + down arrow key to see my full “siggy”.
If your computer can't see images from Cubeupload, that's not my problem
You are reading the post of someone who isn't active on the forums very much (until August 2024) :*(
I ACTUALLY REACHED 1000+ POSTS
“Some people can read War and Peace and come away thinking it's a simple adventure story. Others can read the ingredients on a chewing gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.”

cool stuff: 500th post | an awesome suggestion made by moi | an awesome controversial suggestion also made by moi | gen z has attacked | why did tfh get deleted yall

American-Armenian

Hi! I'm @RecessFailsOffical. This is my signature, where I am allowed to advertise, blockspam, etc. It goes under every post I make. I know I spelled Official wrong in my username because I made this account when I was like 2. I'm in 6th Grade, I like coding and I want to be a software developer when I grow up.
Pronouns: He/Him or any pronouns as long as I'm not referred to as “Gibson”, “she/her”, or “TommyInnit”.


GlitchedThrough
New to Scratch
1000+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

snip
Not everyone is capable of longer suggestions, nor should they be forced to talk more about a feature when they can't.
I know when I have to add 200 characters to something, I just can't.

RecessFailsOffical wrote:

The hide block would be a block that can hide the current sprite. It would be in “Looks” because it changes the sprite's appearance. It could be used if you were trying to make the sprite do something later in your project, but not at a designated time.

253 characters
Since we’re going off a sample size of one, it obviously works in the OP’s favor.
Without stating the obvious or spoon feeding information, can you make a 200+ character statement on what Scratch is?
“Block based programming language for kids.”
That more than suffices what it is, and is under 200 characters.
More words is not equal to better understanding, better understanding comes in with the most simple statement that gets all required information.

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
YouTuber, culinary enthusiast, computer scientist, programmer, Engineer, electric enthusiast, legal aficionado, etc
The-Sushi-Cat
Scratcher
500+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

snip
Not everyone is capable of longer suggestions, nor should they be forced to talk more about a feature when they can't.
I know when I have to add 200 characters to something, I just can't.

RecessFailsOffical wrote:

The hide block would be a block that can hide the current sprite. It would be in “Looks” because it changes the sprite's appearance. It could be used if you were trying to make the sprite do something later in your project, but not at a designated time.

253 characters
Since we’re going off a sample size of one, it obviously works in the OP’s favor.
Without stating the obvious or spoon feeding information, can you make a 200+ character statement on what Scratch is?
“Block based programming language for kids.”
That more than suffices what it is, and is under 200 characters.
More words is not equal to better understanding, better understanding comes in with the most simple statement that gets all required information.
Scratch is more than just coding though. There's also art, music, and just a general place where you can share your ideas and experiment with coding. There's also a lot of people you can connect with on Scratch and you can give feedback and receive it to hopefully improve your code

283 characters. You can always elaborate I know it feels a bit spoonfed, but it helps you work out your ideas more, rather than just the bare minimum, making it harder for people to understand your idea

Making a counterargument? Look here first!
An evil kumquat ate my first username lol

Call me Sushi!

They/He/It/She in order of preference

A little part of me dies inside when someone says, “He/She” instead of just using they-

Try to refrain from saying, ‘No support’. It comes off as extremely negative. “The forums are for criticism! Don't post it you don't want it!” Agreed. But I never said that you should agree with everyone. No suggestion will ever be perfect
What sounds more constructive?
“No support, people would spam with it”
“This would lead to a lot of spam, since people can't get away from it. Not to mention, it might upset a few people with the way it's implemented”

In #1, you didn't help OP at all. You said you didn't like it, and why. Nothing else. Not even what was causing the issue of spam
In #2, you pointed out the flaws and the root causes of them. Flaws shouldn't always get a suggestion absolutely ignored

And simply supporting doesn't always help either. It's not a voting system, it's improving your ideas. There's going to be cons, there's going to be flaws, and that's the point of the suggestions. No suggestion is ever 100% perfect in any way
Here are some things you can look out for:
-Are there any flaws/cons that haven't been addressed or fixed?
-Is this idea fully flushed out? Or are there some questions you can ask?
-Are there any flaws that you know how to fix or do you know how to flush something out a bit more?
-Is there anyone else who is confused and needs some clarification?

If you don't have to do any of these, then you can move on!

Is a suggestion unable to be added because it's just impossible? Point out why and have them decide what to do next
But still, try not to say ‘no support’
GlitchedThrough
New to Scratch
1000+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

snip
Not everyone is capable of longer suggestions, nor should they be forced to talk more about a feature when they can't.
I know when I have to add 200 characters to something, I just can't.

RecessFailsOffical wrote:

The hide block would be a block that can hide the current sprite. It would be in “Looks” because it changes the sprite's appearance. It could be used if you were trying to make the sprite do something later in your project, but not at a designated time.

253 characters
Since we’re going off a sample size of one, it obviously works in the OP’s favor.
Without stating the obvious or spoon feeding information, can you make a 200+ character statement on what Scratch is?
“Block based programming language for kids.”
That more than suffices what it is, and is under 200 characters.
More words is not equal to better understanding, better understanding comes in with the most simple statement that gets all required information.
Scratch is more than just coding though. There's also art, music, and just a general place where you can share your ideas and experiment with coding. There's also a lot of people you can connect with on Scratch and you can give feedback and receive it to hopefully improve your code

283 characters. You can always elaborate I know it feels a bit spoonfed, but it helps you work out your ideas more, rather than just the bare minimum, making it harder for people to understand your idea
But what’s Scratch specifically designed for? Coding. Community and projects come second.
The bare minimum is plenty for anyone to read and understand. The explanation i gave above is exactly what Scratch is, simply a programming language.

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
YouTuber, culinary enthusiast, computer scientist, programmer, Engineer, electric enthusiast, legal aficionado, etc
The-Sushi-Cat
Scratcher
500+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

snip
But what’s Scratch specifically designed for? Coding. Community and projects come second.
The bare minimum is plenty for anyone to read and understand. The explanation i gave above is exactly what Scratch is, simply a programming language.
Now you're moving the goalpost. You said, “what Scratch is?” not “What is the main feature of Scratch?”

Anyway, this is offtopic

Making a counterargument? Look here first!
An evil kumquat ate my first username lol

Call me Sushi!

They/He/It/She in order of preference

A little part of me dies inside when someone says, “He/She” instead of just using they-

Try to refrain from saying, ‘No support’. It comes off as extremely negative. “The forums are for criticism! Don't post it you don't want it!” Agreed. But I never said that you should agree with everyone. No suggestion will ever be perfect
What sounds more constructive?
“No support, people would spam with it”
“This would lead to a lot of spam, since people can't get away from it. Not to mention, it might upset a few people with the way it's implemented”

In #1, you didn't help OP at all. You said you didn't like it, and why. Nothing else. Not even what was causing the issue of spam
In #2, you pointed out the flaws and the root causes of them. Flaws shouldn't always get a suggestion absolutely ignored

And simply supporting doesn't always help either. It's not a voting system, it's improving your ideas. There's going to be cons, there's going to be flaws, and that's the point of the suggestions. No suggestion is ever 100% perfect in any way
Here are some things you can look out for:
-Are there any flaws/cons that haven't been addressed or fixed?
-Is this idea fully flushed out? Or are there some questions you can ask?
-Are there any flaws that you know how to fix or do you know how to flush something out a bit more?
-Is there anyone else who is confused and needs some clarification?

If you don't have to do any of these, then you can move on!

Is a suggestion unable to be added because it's just impossible? Point out why and have them decide what to do next
But still, try not to say ‘no support’
GlitchedThrough
New to Scratch
1000+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

snip
But what’s Scratch specifically designed for? Coding. Community and projects come second.
The bare minimum is plenty for anyone to read and understand. The explanation i gave above is exactly what Scratch is, simply a programming language.
Now you're moving the goalpost. You said, “what Scratch is?” not “What is the main feature of Scratch?”

Anyway, this is offtopic
In no way am i moving the goalpost. Scratch is the language, that is, the editor.
The main feature, the VM. The community? That isn’t Scratch. It’s Scratch’s community. Two completely different things by definition. Is python.org Python?
But, if we’re going to your goalpost, “Scratch is a community for coding with a simple language.”
Simple, shorter then describing what Scratch actually is, and fits your goalpost. 56 characters, 10 words, perfect definition for the community.
Besides, adding a minimum to one singular forum under one singular purpose is something that they can’t realistically do, given the software.

Last edited by GlitchedThrough (March 5, 2024 16:13:22)


There's no place like 127.0.0.1
YouTuber, culinary enthusiast, computer scientist, programmer, Engineer, electric enthusiast, legal aficionado, etc
The-Sushi-Cat
Scratcher
500+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

snip
But what’s Scratch specifically designed for? Coding. Community and projects come second.
The bare minimum is plenty for anyone to read and understand. The explanation i gave above is exactly what Scratch is, simply a programming language.
Now you're moving the goalpost. You said, “what Scratch is?” not “What is the main feature of Scratch?”

Anyway, this is offtopic
In no way am i moving the goalpost. Scratch is the language, that is, the editor.
The main feature, the VM. The community? That isn’t Scratch. It’s Scratch’s community. Two completely different things by definition. Is python.org Python?
But, if we’re going to your goalpost, “Scratch is a community for coding with a simple language.”
Simple, shorter then describing what Scratch actually is, and fits your goalpost. 56 characters, 10 words, perfect definition for the community.
Besides, adding a minimum to one singular forum under one singular purpose is something that they can’t realistically do, given the software.
What can you do in that community? What kind of coding is it and what's the language? Is it just a coding forum?

Last edited by The-Sushi-Cat (March 5, 2024 16:23:59)


Making a counterargument? Look here first!
An evil kumquat ate my first username lol

Call me Sushi!

They/He/It/She in order of preference

A little part of me dies inside when someone says, “He/She” instead of just using they-

Try to refrain from saying, ‘No support’. It comes off as extremely negative. “The forums are for criticism! Don't post it you don't want it!” Agreed. But I never said that you should agree with everyone. No suggestion will ever be perfect
What sounds more constructive?
“No support, people would spam with it”
“This would lead to a lot of spam, since people can't get away from it. Not to mention, it might upset a few people with the way it's implemented”

In #1, you didn't help OP at all. You said you didn't like it, and why. Nothing else. Not even what was causing the issue of spam
In #2, you pointed out the flaws and the root causes of them. Flaws shouldn't always get a suggestion absolutely ignored

And simply supporting doesn't always help either. It's not a voting system, it's improving your ideas. There's going to be cons, there's going to be flaws, and that's the point of the suggestions. No suggestion is ever 100% perfect in any way
Here are some things you can look out for:
-Are there any flaws/cons that haven't been addressed or fixed?
-Is this idea fully flushed out? Or are there some questions you can ask?
-Are there any flaws that you know how to fix or do you know how to flush something out a bit more?
-Is there anyone else who is confused and needs some clarification?

If you don't have to do any of these, then you can move on!

Is a suggestion unable to be added because it's just impossible? Point out why and have them decide what to do next
But still, try not to say ‘no support’
GlitchedThrough
New to Scratch
1000+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

snip
But what’s Scratch specifically designed for? Coding. Community and projects come second.
The bare minimum is plenty for anyone to read and understand. The explanation i gave above is exactly what Scratch is, simply a programming language.
Now you're moving the goalpost. You said, “what Scratch is?” not “What is the main feature of Scratch?”

Anyway, this is offtopic
In no way am i moving the goalpost. Scratch is the language, that is, the editor.
The main feature, the VM. The community? That isn’t Scratch. It’s Scratch’s community. Two completely different things by definition. Is python.org Python?
But, if we’re going to your goalpost, “Scratch is a community for coding with a simple language.”
Simple, shorter then describing what Scratch actually is, and fits your goalpost. 56 characters, 10 words, perfect definition for the community.
Besides, adding a minimum to one singular forum under one singular purpose is something that they can’t realistically do, given the software.
What can you do in that community? What kind of coding is it and what's the language? Is it just a coding forum?
“ Scratch is a community for coding where you get to share and remix projects, and comment with people. You can also make projects using a simple block based language.”
165 characters, 29 words

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
YouTuber, culinary enthusiast, computer scientist, programmer, Engineer, electric enthusiast, legal aficionado, etc
The-Sushi-Cat
Scratcher
500+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

snip
But what’s Scratch specifically designed for? Coding. Community and projects come second.
The bare minimum is plenty for anyone to read and understand. The explanation i gave above is exactly what Scratch is, simply a programming language.
Now you're moving the goalpost. You said, “what Scratch is?” not “What is the main feature of Scratch?”

Anyway, this is offtopic
In no way am i moving the goalpost. Scratch is the language, that is, the editor.
The main feature, the VM. The community? That isn’t Scratch. It’s Scratch’s community. Two completely different things by definition. Is python.org Python?
But, if we’re going to your goalpost, “Scratch is a community for coding with a simple language.”
Simple, shorter then describing what Scratch actually is, and fits your goalpost. 56 characters, 10 words, perfect definition for the community.
Besides, adding a minimum to one singular forum under one singular purpose is something that they can’t realistically do, given the software.
What can you do in that community? What kind of coding is it and what's the language? Is it just a coding forum?
“ Scratch is a community for coding where you get to share and remix projects, and comment with people. You can also make projects using a simple block based language.”
165 characters, 29 words
Who is it made for? (And it's not just coding, since art and music are shared as well.)

Making a counterargument? Look here first!
An evil kumquat ate my first username lol

Call me Sushi!

They/He/It/She in order of preference

A little part of me dies inside when someone says, “He/She” instead of just using they-

Try to refrain from saying, ‘No support’. It comes off as extremely negative. “The forums are for criticism! Don't post it you don't want it!” Agreed. But I never said that you should agree with everyone. No suggestion will ever be perfect
What sounds more constructive?
“No support, people would spam with it”
“This would lead to a lot of spam, since people can't get away from it. Not to mention, it might upset a few people with the way it's implemented”

In #1, you didn't help OP at all. You said you didn't like it, and why. Nothing else. Not even what was causing the issue of spam
In #2, you pointed out the flaws and the root causes of them. Flaws shouldn't always get a suggestion absolutely ignored

And simply supporting doesn't always help either. It's not a voting system, it's improving your ideas. There's going to be cons, there's going to be flaws, and that's the point of the suggestions. No suggestion is ever 100% perfect in any way
Here are some things you can look out for:
-Are there any flaws/cons that haven't been addressed or fixed?
-Is this idea fully flushed out? Or are there some questions you can ask?
-Are there any flaws that you know how to fix or do you know how to flush something out a bit more?
-Is there anyone else who is confused and needs some clarification?

If you don't have to do any of these, then you can move on!

Is a suggestion unable to be added because it's just impossible? Point out why and have them decide what to do next
But still, try not to say ‘no support’
GlitchedThrough
New to Scratch
1000+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

Who is it made for? (And it's not just coding, since art and music are shared as well.)
It’s specifically designed for coding.
And you don’t need to say who it’s made for when talking about it, as that clutters it up, and makes it less and less readable.
Going over stuff like suggested audience is not necessary when talking about a suggestion.
“Simple block based” should give plenty of insight into it being aimed at beginners, which is where you have to inference things in suggestions, otherwise they’d be even less readable.
And, again, they can’t realistically add this in in such short time.

Last edited by GlitchedThrough (March 5, 2024 16:38:45)


There's no place like 127.0.0.1
YouTuber, culinary enthusiast, computer scientist, programmer, Engineer, electric enthusiast, legal aficionado, etc
The-Sushi-Cat
Scratcher
500+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

GlitchedThrough wrote:

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

Who is it made for? (And it's not just coding, since art and music are shared as well.)
It’s specifically designed for coding.
And you don’t need to say who it’s made for when talking about it, as that clutters it up, and makes it less and less readable.
Going over stuff like suggested audience is not necessary when talking about a suggestion.
“Simple block based” should give plenty of insight into it being aimed at beginners, which is where you have to inference things in suggestions, otherwise they’d be even less readable.
And, again, they can’t realistically add this in in such short time.
I said coding wasn't a lone feature, and there is a sound editor and a sprite maker, its designed for those as well, coding is just the main use, but it's not the only one

The suggested audience is important. ST could add an insane block that's hard to use but could help out a few coders. Non-coders or newer ones probably won't use it. So, not enough people are using it to justify its existance

Also, a topic should be well-thought-out, not something you made in a few minutes.

Besides, now that I think about it, this doesn't apply here. This would only apply on suggestions. You are telling everyone about a new idea, and you're gonna have to explain it. We both already know what Scratch is, but for a new suggestion, even if we know what it is, we still need to answer a few more questions.
Lets use this topic as an example
This could be simplified to one sentence: “We should have the ability to choose a site theme and navbar color”
Boom. Done.
But it's unfinished. There's more that needs elaborating
1. Where would this feature go?
2. What would it look like if you used it?
3. How would ST do this?
4. What are the downfalls to this? Do they outweigh the pros?

And that's general questions, it's not even getting into that topic specifically.

1. What if someone chooses a color that's too light?
2. What would the color picker look like?
3. Would it be set options or ones you make yourself? Or would both be better?
4. What happens if the user is logged out?
5. Would this clutter up account settings?

You can look out for possible questions and answer them, instead of answering them in the comments and getting a lot of repeated ones.

Last edited by The-Sushi-Cat (March 5, 2024 17:05:01)


Making a counterargument? Look here first!
An evil kumquat ate my first username lol

Call me Sushi!

They/He/It/She in order of preference

A little part of me dies inside when someone says, “He/She” instead of just using they-

Try to refrain from saying, ‘No support’. It comes off as extremely negative. “The forums are for criticism! Don't post it you don't want it!” Agreed. But I never said that you should agree with everyone. No suggestion will ever be perfect
What sounds more constructive?
“No support, people would spam with it”
“This would lead to a lot of spam, since people can't get away from it. Not to mention, it might upset a few people with the way it's implemented”

In #1, you didn't help OP at all. You said you didn't like it, and why. Nothing else. Not even what was causing the issue of spam
In #2, you pointed out the flaws and the root causes of them. Flaws shouldn't always get a suggestion absolutely ignored

And simply supporting doesn't always help either. It's not a voting system, it's improving your ideas. There's going to be cons, there's going to be flaws, and that's the point of the suggestions. No suggestion is ever 100% perfect in any way
Here are some things you can look out for:
-Are there any flaws/cons that haven't been addressed or fixed?
-Is this idea fully flushed out? Or are there some questions you can ask?
-Are there any flaws that you know how to fix or do you know how to flush something out a bit more?
-Is there anyone else who is confused and needs some clarification?

If you don't have to do any of these, then you can move on!

Is a suggestion unable to be added because it's just impossible? Point out why and have them decide what to do next
But still, try not to say ‘no support’
GlitchedThrough
New to Scratch
1000+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

I said coding wasn't a lone feature, and there is a sound editor and a sprite maker, its designed for those as well, coding is just the main use, but it's not the only one
All of which directly go into the simple language. You could even substitue it with “game engine”, as thats what it is when joined with the sprite and audio editor

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

The suggested audience is important. ST could add an insane block that's hard to use but could help out a few coders.
So, saying “simple” suffices, correct? Or, do we need to specifically say “its aimed at individuals ranging from the age of 8 to 16, but can be used by others starting out if they’re outside of this range, or want to join the site, or experienced programmers looking for a simpler language to simply play around with”

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

Non-coders

If programmers never experience semi complex operations they’ll never learn essential lessons for when they enter programming. And non programmers are obviously not who its aimed at if its explained as “complex”, which should be inferred as an option when i say “simple”

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

or newer ones probably won't use it.
Which is inferred with “simple”, “intermediate”, “complex”

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

So, not enough people are using it to justify its existance
How does this pertain to the argument?

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

Also, a topic should be well-thought-out, not something you made in a few minutes.
Here’s an idea i made just now, in under 30 seconds: “A block which stops all scripts in other sprites. This is a simple block.” Boom, done, plenty explained, now i gotta add an hour of useless noise to get it to post.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

Besides, now that I think about it, this doesn't apply here. This would only apply on suggestions. You are telling everyone about a new idea, and you're gonna have to explain it. We both already know what Scratch is, but for a new suggestion, even if we know what it is, we still need to answer a few more questions.
If you enter a suggestion with a stringent set of guidelines you will be disappointed.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

Lets use this topic as an example
This could be simplified to one sentence: “We should have the ability to choose a site theme and navbar color”
Boom. Done.
Agree.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

But it's unfinished. There's more that needs elaborating
Ruin the readability?

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

1. Where would this feature go?
We can presume there isn’t gonna be a new menu for one feature, rather an add on to the account settings page. It doesn’t need to be said given how simple this is.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

2. What would it look like if you used it?
That would be trillions of combinations they’d have to make mock-ups for then.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

3. How would ST do this?
Web dev here, the client doesn’t need to know how something’s implemented, the developer doesn’t need to be told by the client how to implement it.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

4. What are the downfalls to this? Do they outweigh the pros?
This is not essential.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

And that's general questions, it's not even getting into that topic specifically.
Make questions for the topic then.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

1. What if someone chooses a color that's too light?
What if someone wants a color to light.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

2. What would the color picker look like?
That’s for the developers to decide, not the client. To give ideas, though, we can presume its gonna be the one already in the editor.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

3. Would it be set options or ones you make yourself? Or would both be better?
We can also presume here that it would be set by the users, otherwise, would that really be custom?

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

4. What happens if the user is logged out?
We can presume that they have cookies enabled.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

5. Would this clutter up account settings?
Any good web developer knows how to add a tab to account settings on their site with an account. And this answers an above comment.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

You can look out for possible questions and answer them, instead of answering them in the comments and getting a lot of repeated ones.
Let’s go back in again.
“This feature would let users select custom colors as a theme. This would be in a new tab in account settings and would use the paint editor color picker.”
153 characters, 29 words.

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
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The-Sushi-Cat
Scratcher
500+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

GlitchedThrough wrote:

Let’s go back in again.
“This feature would let users select custom colors as a theme. This would be in a new tab in account settings and would use the paint editor color picker.”
153 characters, 29 words.

1. I literally can't understand your point. I'm pretty sure you're saying that it could be simplified into the word “Game engine”?

2. No. That's a bit of a slippery slope. I'm saying you should explain things more that would be unclear. Not “Water down every word”. Thats spoonfeeding. What I want is clarity, not an unnecessary definition.

3. That feels irrelevant? I'm using it as an example, you're using it like it actually happened (Or I'm misunderstanding)

4. Irellivent. Reading one extra word is too much?

5. A complicated block that basically no one will use has no purpose. That is why audience is important

6. Give me an example of you using it. Explain why this should be used in favor of a workaround.

7. … What?

8.

9. “We should have the ability to choose a site theme and navbar color. It should go in the settings area and you could have a color picker that changes the nav bar. There would also be a switch that would switch your theme from light mode to dark mode”

248 words. Do you feel like that is cluttered?

10. You don't need to answer every question. But it's important that you do if one needs to be. That's why I list all those questions

11. You're right, but that doesn't mean every combination is equally as good. Choose the one you think is best.

12. If something is a good idea, but something ST can't physically do, then see if you can find a way to make it possible. If not, then your suggestion doesn't work.

13. Yes, yes it is. One extremely bad con can throw out a whole argument. For example, ST should make me a team member and I'll do it for free. Pros: I would help monitor the website which would decrease trolls and bad things. ST doesn't have to pay me, so they wouldn't lose any money. I'd take off the workload of other members.
Cons: ST does not know me, and I could do inappropriate things with my power.
I know it's a stupid example, but whatever.

14. I did???

15. ???

16. You're right, but it helps prevent arguments and lets everyone get on the same page paster

17. Yes. Since you chose it, it is custom. There are custom character creators, yet everything (Hair, skin, clothes) are all preset

18. I meant, “Would someone who does not have an account be able to use the color changing features?” Thats mb

19. They removed “Echo” because they felt it cluttered up the site (Trying to find a source…)

20. refer back to #9

Making a counterargument? Look here first!
An evil kumquat ate my first username lol

Call me Sushi!

They/He/It/She in order of preference

A little part of me dies inside when someone says, “He/She” instead of just using they-

Try to refrain from saying, ‘No support’. It comes off as extremely negative. “The forums are for criticism! Don't post it you don't want it!” Agreed. But I never said that you should agree with everyone. No suggestion will ever be perfect
What sounds more constructive?
“No support, people would spam with it”
“This would lead to a lot of spam, since people can't get away from it. Not to mention, it might upset a few people with the way it's implemented”

In #1, you didn't help OP at all. You said you didn't like it, and why. Nothing else. Not even what was causing the issue of spam
In #2, you pointed out the flaws and the root causes of them. Flaws shouldn't always get a suggestion absolutely ignored

And simply supporting doesn't always help either. It's not a voting system, it's improving your ideas. There's going to be cons, there's going to be flaws, and that's the point of the suggestions. No suggestion is ever 100% perfect in any way
Here are some things you can look out for:
-Are there any flaws/cons that haven't been addressed or fixed?
-Is this idea fully flushed out? Or are there some questions you can ask?
-Are there any flaws that you know how to fix or do you know how to flush something out a bit more?
-Is there anyone else who is confused and needs some clarification?

If you don't have to do any of these, then you can move on!

Is a suggestion unable to be added because it's just impossible? Point out why and have them decide what to do next
But still, try not to say ‘no support’
GlitchedThrough
New to Scratch
1000+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

1. I literally can't understand your point. I'm pretty sure you're saying that it could be simplified into the word “Game engine”?
That’s what i said, right?

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

2. No. That's a bit of a slippery slope. I'm saying you should explain things more that would be unclear. Not “Water down every word”. Thats spoonfeeding. What I want is clarity, not an unnecessary definition.
So, “simple” is enough, right?

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

3. That feels irrelevant? I'm using it as an example, you're using it like it actually happened (Or I'm misunderstanding)
I’m saying that you should teach people who don’t program about complex features earlier, and simply saying a level of experience(simple, intermediate, hard) says exactly who its aimed at.
Simply saying “8-16” would be incorrect, Scratch is aimed at people who are starting to program.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

4. Irellivent. Reading one extra word is too much?
That is not at all connected to what i said. What i said is saying how tough it is is plenty, rather than giving specifics. If you can’t infer it, which you should be able to in the first place, then one word is plenty.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

5. A complicated block that basically no one will use has no purpose. That is why audience is important
And saying “simple block” doesn’t say that? Do you have to give an age range? No. Find any suggestion where thats even mentioned, then look at every other suggestion.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

6. Give me an example of you using it. Explain why this should be used in favor of a workaround.
Sure! Find a workaround to it that someone will figure out. You don’t need to talk about workarounds in the OP, thats just wasted time. Workarounds mean nothing.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

7. … What?
You don’t make a suggestion expecting something exact.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

8.
Great point.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

9. “We should have the ability to choose a site theme and navbar color. It should go in the settings area and you could have a color picker that changes the nav bar. There would also be a switch that would switch your theme from light mode to dark mode”

248 words. Do you feel like that is cluttered?
You can still make posts more than 200 words. The more txt you add, though, the less people will read.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

10. You don't need to answer every question. But it's important that you do if one needs to be. That's why I list all those questions
And i explained why they didn’t need to be answered, then answered those necessary at the end.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

11. You're right, but that doesn't mean every combination is equally as good. Choose the one you think is best.
These are custom themes. If someone wants a specific combo, then sure, but even then, saying “Custom themes that you can set in account settings” is more then enough.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

12. If something is a good idea, but something ST can't physically do, then see if you can find a way to make it possible. If not, then your suggestion doesn't work.
And if the ST physically can’t do it, the ST will say that. We as the client have no idea what the ST is physically capable of doing.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

13. Yes, yes it is. One extremely bad con can throw out a whole argument. For example, ST should make me a team member and I'll do it for free. Pros: I would help monitor the website which would decrease trolls and bad things. ST doesn't have to pay me, so they wouldn't lose any money. I'd take off the workload of other members.
Cons: ST does not know me, and I could do inappropriate things with my power.

I know it's a stupid example, but whatever.
That idea is specifically made to counter the point of cons not needing to be mentioned.
You don’t always need to mention cons

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

14. I did???
I was going in chronological order.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

15. ???
What if they want a super bright color?

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

16. You're right, but it helps prevent arguments and lets everyone get on the same page paster
Inference.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

17. Yes. Since you chose it, it is custom. There are custom character creators, yet everything (Hair, skin, clothes) are all preset
Which, in this case, wouldn’t be realistically custom. Those would be

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

18. I meant, “Would someone who does not have an account be able to use the color changing features?” Thats mb
That would be the ST’s choice then. However, I’d assume that they wouldn’t unless the OP said otherwise, if its in account settings.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

19. They removed “Echo” because they felt it cluttered up the site (Trying to find a source…)

You do realize thats not the reason, right? it was buggy. Not cluttered.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:

20. refer back to #9
So is only one valid? Or do both make sense, ones just less wordy?

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
YouTuber, culinary enthusiast, computer scientist, programmer, Engineer, electric enthusiast, legal aficionado, etc
The-Sushi-Cat
Scratcher
500+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

1. I don't know. I'm asking you

2. In some scenarios yes.

3. It specifically states its for 8-16

4. Yup. But if something can't be inferred, then you should specify it.

5. I don't understand what you are saying here

6. Workarounds do mean something. If it can be done extremely easily, then why add a block? If it can't, then unless ST plans on adding it within the next week, using the workaround is better than waiting for something that might never happen.

7. Yes, but you should try to get as close as possible while leaving room for improvement. You shouldn't make your suggestion 5 words, but you don't have to write a whole essay about your suggestion

8. ;-;

9. People can't bother reading more than 200 characters? What?

10. Yup. I did too. It was still short, you could still read it, and it was over 200 characters.

11. Not exactly. What do you mean by custom theme? Does changing the color make it a theme? Or is it only dark/light mode?

12. ST has made comments about their lack of developers, so we can assume that suggesting a bot that can filter the meaning of comments as well as a human is something that probably won't happen.

13. Yup. But that doesn't stop you from mentioning pro's as well

14. Dude- read the whole post. Don't ask me to add more questions when I already have.

15. You're repeating the question I was asking. My point was you can add more and you should add it if its relevant

16. Not everything can be inferenced. If I make a post about adding a Scratch Blocks cap for suggestions, but I don't specify the cap, whoo could someone inference the cap that I want?

17. Just the sheer fact that we are disagreeing on what is custom or not already makes our inferences different. Thats why there should be clarity on that.

18. OP can still give their input, and if you can see if a lot of people are gonna ask, then just clarify,

19. No

20. They both make sense. Just because mine has more characters doesn't mean its wordy. “I got ice cream at the store” makes more sense than “Me ice cream store” (And no, it doesn't matter if you can understand the second one and it doesn't matter if you can. #1 is easier to understand and something you can understand faster.

Making a counterargument? Look here first!
An evil kumquat ate my first username lol

Call me Sushi!

They/He/It/She in order of preference

A little part of me dies inside when someone says, “He/She” instead of just using they-

Try to refrain from saying, ‘No support’. It comes off as extremely negative. “The forums are for criticism! Don't post it you don't want it!” Agreed. But I never said that you should agree with everyone. No suggestion will ever be perfect
What sounds more constructive?
“No support, people would spam with it”
“This would lead to a lot of spam, since people can't get away from it. Not to mention, it might upset a few people with the way it's implemented”

In #1, you didn't help OP at all. You said you didn't like it, and why. Nothing else. Not even what was causing the issue of spam
In #2, you pointed out the flaws and the root causes of them. Flaws shouldn't always get a suggestion absolutely ignored

And simply supporting doesn't always help either. It's not a voting system, it's improving your ideas. There's going to be cons, there's going to be flaws, and that's the point of the suggestions. No suggestion is ever 100% perfect in any way
Here are some things you can look out for:
-Are there any flaws/cons that haven't been addressed or fixed?
-Is this idea fully flushed out? Or are there some questions you can ask?
-Are there any flaws that you know how to fix or do you know how to flush something out a bit more?
-Is there anyone else who is confused and needs some clarification?

If you don't have to do any of these, then you can move on!

Is a suggestion unable to be added because it's just impossible? Point out why and have them decide what to do next
But still, try not to say ‘no support’
GlitchedThrough
New to Scratch
1000+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

1. Yes.
2. So it should suffice, correct?
3. And that's not totally right. It's for all beginners, designed for 8-16
4. But not every case. In cases it isn't necessary, why force it?
5. Simple is enough for every case.
6. Then why have Scratch? JavaScript exists! Wait, why have JavaScript? C exists. Wait, why C? ASM exists. Wait, why ASM? Binary.
7. And, under 200 words is enough for many, as I've proven, right?
8. :troll:
9. It adds up.
Of it's all fluff, then less people will read it. And don't act like most forumers read more then 50 characters.
10. And mine was under 200, right?
Can that be proof enough that this suggestion isn't needed?
11. If it's presets, it isn't custom. Of you choose it, it is.
12. I'm one developer and I've created sites which have few to no issues.
Never released due to hardware, but it's not all that tough.
1e. But dontou have to? No.
14. Again. I was responding as I read it. That's how I always do. As I said. And that point wasn't removed cuz that ain't how I do it.
15. You said what if they choose it. I asked what if they want it.
16. But some things can be, right? What if you don't have the max ironed out?
17. By definition, presets aren't custom.
18. “Account settings”
19. Read the posts above that.
20. Alright, feel free to respond to this in subsections.
A. Not everyone speaks great English. Many people speak like that, it ain't their first language, they're going and weren't taught it, they prefer to talk like that.
B. But less characters, like, still is grammatically correct and can be read properly, correct?
C. Could you read mine faster? Yes. Was it grammatically correct? Yes. Was it under 200 characters? Yes. So, why add this when you can easily make a comprehensive discussion under 200 characters? The title can even have all information.

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
YouTuber, culinary enthusiast, computer scientist, programmer, Engineer, electric enthusiast, legal aficionado, etc
The-Sushi-Cat
Scratcher
500+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

1. ‘Game engine’ does not fit. Scratch is a programming language, not a game engine.

2. In some scenarios, yes.

3.
Simply saying “8-16” would be incorrect, Scratch is aimed at people who are starting to program.
but people of all ages create and share with Scratch.
not just for beginners

4. Because it's not clutter. And if there is nothing to be inffered that may cause confusion, then you don't have to add it. That's what I said above.

5. No, it's not. I can't just say, “I think we should remove the ‘explore page’.” Why? What good reason is there? You can't infer my whole argument and expect to be 100% correct. It could be, “Because I think it encourages people to more competitive and people who end up there get a lot of spam” or it could be “because my products never get featured”. And if someone has no opinion, there is no way they'll be swayed to my side if I don't explain why I want something changed.

6. Slippery slope fallacy.

7. That's where we disagree, it's not.

9. What do you mean, ‘it adds up’? My brain isn't a computer chip. Intaking more words isn't gonna fill up my brain faster and I'm gonna run out of storage space.

10. Yup. But it was pretty danm close to 200. You only needed about 50 more in each one. You will live if you add a bit more.

11. What about custom character creators? Most things are preset and you just choose from a big list. I consider that custom, because it is. A homemade cake doesn't have to be made from eggs you laid yourself. Instead, choosing one that's already there and using that is still homemade

12. I have too, and it's not hard to make a website. But Scratch isn't a website that just anyone could make. It's full of links, pages full of information, a coding area, the ability to upload images, these forums, they aren't simple to make.

13. Yup. You don't have to add it if you don't want to, but it can help “water down” your argument better to help people understand it more.

14. You can go back and remove points.

15. I assume they chose it because they wanted it?

16. Then don't do the max. Do the bare minimum of 200.

17. I disagree, that is why there should be clarity in stuff like that, because both you and I would get different impressions.

18. Account settings would probably be the place for it to go, but that doesn't mean everyone will immediately understand or think of that as a place. “It would go in account settings” is something someone could handle.

19. August 1st, 2019

20. Because it helps clarify things more. You think 5 words is enough, but in a lot of cases, it's not.

A: They can use other language forums. And if you have a problem with it, then do something about it. Make a TLDR at the bottom of your posts and encourage others to do the same. You can have both here. You can have a longer one, and a shorter one.

B: Red herring fallacy. We are not talking about grammatical correctness and whether or not I understand you. “I want 50 pounds of raw milk” That's grammatically correct, you understood me, and it was read properly. But you do understand why I want that or the purpose of it? No.

C: refer back to B

If it was truly hard to understand posts with more words, then posts with a lot of words should do poorly? Right? Then why is the opposite true?

https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/368914/
529 characters
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/65930/?page=1
1043
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/322107/
5652
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/686895/
326

These are understandable, and are thought out.

Making a counterargument? Look here first!
An evil kumquat ate my first username lol

Call me Sushi!

They/He/It/She in order of preference

A little part of me dies inside when someone says, “He/She” instead of just using they-

Try to refrain from saying, ‘No support’. It comes off as extremely negative. “The forums are for criticism! Don't post it you don't want it!” Agreed. But I never said that you should agree with everyone. No suggestion will ever be perfect
What sounds more constructive?
“No support, people would spam with it”
“This would lead to a lot of spam, since people can't get away from it. Not to mention, it might upset a few people with the way it's implemented”

In #1, you didn't help OP at all. You said you didn't like it, and why. Nothing else. Not even what was causing the issue of spam
In #2, you pointed out the flaws and the root causes of them. Flaws shouldn't always get a suggestion absolutely ignored

And simply supporting doesn't always help either. It's not a voting system, it's improving your ideas. There's going to be cons, there's going to be flaws, and that's the point of the suggestions. No suggestion is ever 100% perfect in any way
Here are some things you can look out for:
-Are there any flaws/cons that haven't been addressed or fixed?
-Is this idea fully flushed out? Or are there some questions you can ask?
-Are there any flaws that you know how to fix or do you know how to flush something out a bit more?
-Is there anyone else who is confused and needs some clarification?

If you don't have to do any of these, then you can move on!

Is a suggestion unable to be added because it's just impossible? Point out why and have them decide what to do next
But still, try not to say ‘no support’
GlitchedThrough
New to Scratch
1000+ posts

Minimum requirement for characters/words on OPs in the suggestions forum

1. Here, I can't respond to the whole post cuz phone, but lemme ask you this.
If someone can create a post you can understand and is grammatically correct in under 200 characters, why require them use more then 200 characters?
And it's kinda racist to assume everyone understands English Grammer properly, to a tee, or to assume all languages would require 200 characters to get a point across.
It can also make discussion less accessible to individuals with ADD, such as myself, as we have difficulties writing even 200 characters if it's required of us.
You provided 4 posts with more then 200 characters while conveniently leaving out posts with under 200 which still work well, which seems to be your argument, many suggestions can be expressed in above 200 characters, without nothing the possibility of a successful post being made within under 200 words.
The source provided, 8, was from the same post you had created. No offense to Za-Chary, but I don't believe he had worked on the development. It had been noted to sound off at the
begining and end of sounds the effect was applied.
For 12, yes it is. Any web dev who has ever worked with a server knows how to do it. This ain't simply a static HTML document I'm talking about, real scalable websites shot down by Egress limits on Replits. Scratch's back end can be easily reproduced with a good enough machine, in fact, without the source code.
And, answer this question. How do you propose they implement this? DjangoBB is 10 year old abandon ware

Last edited by GlitchedThrough (March 6, 2024 21:36:56)


There's no place like 127.0.0.1
YouTuber, culinary enthusiast, computer scientist, programmer, Engineer, electric enthusiast, legal aficionado, etc

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