Discuss Scratch

SonicFanX123_321
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

rdococ wrote:

(#3)

wer65hertg wrote:

How would this affect the normal Scratch user, and not just the team who develops it?
The normal Scratch user would find it much easier to modify and extend Scratch as they (and I) did in its earlier years, and it would naturally provide a more advanced programming language for older users without splitting the community. Scratch 1.x gave the whole Scratch community access and a gradual introduction to a world of live programming that newer versions simply can't, but the Scratch Team could fix this.

Plus, they certainly have the funding and manpower now, and it's not like they're still adding features to Scratch 3.
also they are DEFINITELY adding features to scratch 3, see new studio pages controversy and the new forum.
unless you mean the editor, which you could have made clearer in your original post.

this is my page

I'm not active on scratch anymore, I moved on.
sonic__fan
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

Huh, support! A version of Scratch that's easier to code for and easier to mod!

This is my signature. It is not a part of this post and it appears under every post I make.
Sonic Says
Every world has its end. I know that's kinda sad, but, that's why we have to live life to the fullest in the time we have. At least… that's what I figure.
Hey there, I'm sonic__fan. I just look for good suggestions to add to Scratch.
TECHNOBLADE NEVER DIES
54387a
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

ameershariff3003 wrote:

when green flag clicked
wait unitl <on forums? ::sensing>::control
forever
create clone of [myself v]
block name [ stopp v]
end
when I start as a clone
ask [message] and wait
say (answer ::sensing)
Please don't blockspam. Instead, you could say support/no support with reasoning or say something that can help this topic be discussed more.

Last edited by 54387a (April 6, 2023 15:24:33)


Everything below the grey line right above is my signature. By the way, my signature isn't related to my post in case you didn't know.
Welcome to the world of @54387a!™
Try out my projects.
To donate an internet, go here.
Go here to check if your suggestion is rejected. To check if your topic is a duplicate, use ocular. Remember, don't post on irrelevant topics otherwise that's necroposting. By the way, if you feel like your project/studio was wrongfully taken down, tell the Scratch Team through Contact Us.
Whenever you see something that looks clearly offensive and/or something not Scratch-appropriate, report it.
Purple specimen

Creating Content since October 2022
1,000th post

Za-Chary wrote:

silly me
(Source)
GIitchInTheMatrix
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

Bump

this is my signature
I have exactly 8934 posts
rdococ
Scratcher
500+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

ajskateboarder wrote:

Accessibility: You can run Scratch 3 on any device with OpenGL and a web browser, and that is what makes Scratch a good beginner language. If Scratch migrated to Smalltalk, it would be hard to directly run it in the browser without it being far less interactive.
There are Smalltalk dialects implemented with HTML5 + Javascript

ajskateboarder wrote:

I think this would be much better as a community-driven project, not a part of the next Scratch version. I'm sure the Scratch open-source community will like the project, though
Certainly an interesting thought.

There's GP Blocks, a block-based programming language developed in itself. One of the original developers behind Scratch (John Maloney) as well as Jens of Snap! fame were involved, but it seems to be abandoned. Real shame; it would have been awesome as a future version of Scratch! There's a community edition, but I don't know that they're doing much with it.
Crispydogs101
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

medians wrote:

Crispydogs101 wrote:

I don't think scratch 4.0 is coming in smalltalk (might be also called sqeak) since 4.0 is not announced yet. But if it does then that would be cool since smalltalk can do better things like live blocks and features. So might be support.
Squeak was an implementation of Smalltalk.
Oh I did not know that lol.

Hey! Look at this DTA!
Hej! My username is @Crispydogs101. I like listening to music, playing games, and more!
Sarah and duck, Pete the cat, Pegboard nerds, Tokyo machine, FORZA FAN!! Be High contrast Blue Be rich
NanoRook
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

ajskateboarder wrote:

I like this idea, but there's valid reasons for Scratch 3.0 to use modern web technologies.

Accessibility: You can run Scratch 3 on any device with OpenGL and a web browser, and that is what makes Scratch a good beginner language. If Scratch migrated to Smalltalk, it would be hard to directly run it in the browser without it being far less interactive.

Strong community: It would be hard to find contributors for Scratch's open source components if they all switched to Smalltalk. Despite Smalltalk being easier to learn, many more people have learned JavaScript and React beforehand, so it's ironically easier to contribute to LLK.

I think this would be much better as a community-driven project, not a part of the next Scratch version. I'm sure the Scratch open-source community will like the project, though

This is the big thing. I remember attempting to learn Squeak (struck me as the most popular Smalltalk implementation) and being baffled at how much community there wasn't. The wiki was barely maintained, the news section hadn't been updated since 2018, and most learning resources are ancient. Same with standard Smalltalk. I don't think it helps that the syntax feels deranged compared to modern programming syntax.

I think there is a genuine argument to be made that Scratch should be more extensible, but Smalltalk is not the answer. Maybe Lua would be a better alternative?

I LOVE BEING PURPLE!!!! JOIN THE PURPLE COALITION TODAY IF YOU ALSO LOVE BEING PURPLE. PURPLE IS THE NEW BLUE! PURPLE IS THE SUPERIOR NAVBAR COLOR! YYYEAAHHHHH BABY!!!!

Basilikos
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

NanoRook wrote:

ajskateboarder wrote:

I like this idea, but there's valid reasons for Scratch 3.0 to use modern web technologies.

Accessibility: You can run Scratch 3 on any device with OpenGL and a web browser, and that is what makes Scratch a good beginner language. If Scratch migrated to Smalltalk, it would be hard to directly run it in the browser without it being far less interactive.

Strong community: It would be hard to find contributors for Scratch's open source components if they all switched to Smalltalk. Despite Smalltalk being easier to learn, many more people have learned JavaScript and React beforehand, so it's ironically easier to contribute to LLK.

I think this would be much better as a community-driven project, not a part of the next Scratch version. I'm sure the Scratch open-source community will like the project, though

This is the big thing. I remember attempting to learn Squeak (struck me as the most popular Smalltalk implementation) and being baffled at how much community there wasn't. The wiki was barely maintained, the news section hadn't been updated since 2018, and most learning resources are ancient. Same with standard Smalltalk. I don't think it helps that the syntax feels deranged compared to modern programming syntax.

I think there is a genuine argument to be made that Scratch should be more extensible, but Smalltalk is not the answer. Maybe Lua would be a better alternative?
Lua isn't meant for building entire websites with tons of traffic and features.

sorry for bad english
NanoRook
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

Basilikos wrote:

NanoRook wrote:

ajskateboarder wrote:

I like this idea, but there's valid reasons for Scratch 3.0 to use modern web technologies.

Accessibility: You can run Scratch 3 on any device with OpenGL and a web browser, and that is what makes Scratch a good beginner language. If Scratch migrated to Smalltalk, it would be hard to directly run it in the browser without it being far less interactive.

Strong community: It would be hard to find contributors for Scratch's open source components if they all switched to Smalltalk. Despite Smalltalk being easier to learn, many more people have learned JavaScript and React beforehand, so it's ironically easier to contribute to LLK.

I think this would be much better as a community-driven project, not a part of the next Scratch version. I'm sure the Scratch open-source community will like the project, though

This is the big thing. I remember attempting to learn Squeak (struck me as the most popular Smalltalk implementation) and being baffled at how much community there wasn't. The wiki was barely maintained, the news section hadn't been updated since 2018, and most learning resources are ancient. Same with standard Smalltalk. I don't think it helps that the syntax feels deranged compared to modern programming syntax.

I think there is a genuine argument to be made that Scratch should be more extensible, but Smalltalk is not the answer. Maybe Lua would be a better alternative?
Lua isn't meant for building entire websites with tons of traffic and features.

The Scratch Editor isn't a website.

I LOVE BEING PURPLE!!!! JOIN THE PURPLE COALITION TODAY IF YOU ALSO LOVE BEING PURPLE. PURPLE IS THE NEW BLUE! PURPLE IS THE SUPERIOR NAVBAR COLOR! YYYEAAHHHHH BABY!!!!

gilbert_given_189
Scratcher
500+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

NanoRook wrote:

This is the big thing. I remember attempting to learn Squeak (struck me as the most popular Smalltalk implementation) and being baffled at how much community there wasn't. The wiki was barely maintained, the news section hadn't been updated since 2018, and most learning resources are ancient. Same with standard Smalltalk. I don't think it helps that the syntax feels deranged compared to modern programming syntax.
This.

I know Python does it a little with the indent-dedent system, but everything on Smalltalk feels unorthodox and esoteric. I'm fortunate enough to at least know little concepts of the syntax from venturing on the esolanging world (and the fact that most of Squeak self-documents itself), making the learning process a bit easy, but imagine if you're just starting out JavaScript, Lua, or God forbid Scratch. To them, Smalltalk feels back to front, with programming aspects they don't know why it works, but is necessary for reasons unknown to them.

You put your “actions” after the values, contrary to what you have learned on your usual programming class. You can't just define a variable on a line, you have to delimit some variables on vertical lines after the function name for some reason. What you may see as code blocks are actually functions, yet you don't know them because you're accustomed to how functions work on other C-style proglangs. It's a good way to introduce FP, yes, but for them all of these “bizarre” syntax quirks made the Smalltalk language virtually inaccessible to people that came from other, more popular proglangs. On this perspective, Smalltalk-based Scratch would be as hard, if not harder to mod than later version of Scratch, even though technically it's not.

If you see a line above this text, it means that below this text is my signature.
This place is just a memory to me, I may return occasionally but I'm busy.
I guess I'm an ATer now.

I think I may have seasoned my posts a bit too much.


Colored Pencil is supposed to color the siggy, but Scratch says it's too big.


There is nothing here…



don don pan pan
dondo pan pan
ajskateboarder
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

Basilikos wrote:

Lua isn't meant for building entire websites with tons of traffic and features.
Lua is easy to sandbox (which is one of it's nicest features). There are browser implementations and ways to run it on the backend

Last edited by ajskateboarder (May 17, 2023 12:16:24)

PaperMarioFan2022
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

cookieclickerer33 wrote:

rdococ wrote:

cookieclickerer33 wrote:

Say it with me everyone!

Scratch 4 will never come out!
the only reason scratch 3 came out was because of the death of flash, so unless HTML 5 gets discontinued, scratch will not reach 4.0, there will be other updates but a new update as big as 3.0/new version has not even been in development, the closest thing to an update we are probably going to get is the currently in development dark mode and high contrast blocks, other than that there are currently no other planned features other than those in scratch lab (that may never even be implemented at all! Although I hope we get the text one, making a text engine is really time consuming if you want centering)
Thanks for bumping

I don't expect Scratch 4 to come out for a while, but if Scratch lives long enough then the technologies it's using are bound to get discontinued. This is something for the Scratch Team to consider when that happens.
I have a feeling by the time HTML gets shut down scratch will have been discontinued for a while, given most of the internet is built off of HTML

It is now, after Adobe Flash has died out.

Hello! Welcome to my signature!

I am a real Mario enthusiast and a fan of the franchise and also getting into the field of IT. I also play Luigi's Mansion and other games too!

Profile | Ocular | ScratchStats | PostPercent | GitHub Main | Snap!

Professional Mario Enthusiast / (NEW!) 3DS FC: 2252-0951-8546 / (NEW!) Switch FC: SW-2091-2478-9614 / (removed - due to concerns in moderation) ARarePaper



I forgor my account password to give an internet ☠

I’ve been a Scratcher since 2021!



My glorious meme section (scroll down to see more)






























creeperyeettt
Scratcher
500+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

scratch four isnt coming for another few years atleast as 3.0 isnt even done

change [ IQ] by (-2)

potassium car: https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/842403167/ (deltarune reference???)
<– click















GIitchInTheMatrix
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

creeperyeettt wrote:

scratch four isnt coming for another few years atleast as 3.0 isnt even done

rdococ wrote:

I don't expect Scratch 4 to come out for a while, but if Scratch lives long enough then the technologies it's using are bound to get discontinued. This is something for the Scratch Team to consider when that happens.

this is my signature
I have exactly 8934 posts
ajskateboarder
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

creeperyeettt wrote:

scratch four isnt coming for another few years atleast as 3.0 isnt even done
Did you read the OP
SonicFanX123_321
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

scratch 1.4 gave way to scratch 2.0, which was based on flash to provide online editor.
I doubt there's something like a “live environment”; squeak is based offline (.changes and .image files).

this is my page

I'm not active on scratch anymore, I moved on.
PaperMarioFan2022
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

I’m not a real programmer, but I know for sure Scratch 4.0 won’t be released until HTML 5 is discontinued. But until then, this would pretty useful and also creative, especially if advanced coders like to mod Scratch.

Support! I find this very interesting and also useful to a programming language (yes, Scratch is a programming language obviously).

Hello! Welcome to my signature!

I am a real Mario enthusiast and a fan of the franchise and also getting into the field of IT. I also play Luigi's Mansion and other games too!

Profile | Ocular | ScratchStats | PostPercent | GitHub Main | Snap!

Professional Mario Enthusiast / (NEW!) 3DS FC: 2252-0951-8546 / (NEW!) Switch FC: SW-2091-2478-9614 / (removed - due to concerns in moderation) ARarePaper



I forgor my account password to give an internet ☠

I’ve been a Scratcher since 2021!



My glorious meme section (scroll down to see more)






























GIitchInTheMatrix
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

PaperMarioFan2022 wrote:

I’m not a real programmer, but I know for sure Scratch 4.0 won’t be released until HTML 5 is discontinued.
The ST began 3.0 before Adobe even announced Flash was to be depricated.

this is my signature
I have exactly 8934 posts
o97doge
Scratcher
500+ posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

Bump and support. Easier to create modifications. Newspeak looks interesting as a choice, even though I haven't used it and it isn't Smalltalk, though it does take some elements from it.

Last edited by o97doge (Oct. 29, 2023 05:03:46)


Everything below this point is not part of the post above, as everything beyond this point is a signature.
SHIFT+DOWN or addon

The aesthetic community is discovering the forums?!?!?!?!?
I feel by next year we wont have the forums anymore, I'm not joking.
How did you find out about the Discussion Forums?
Try out LibreKitten, my TurboWarp mod.

I found this masterpiece of a post:

Gamer_Logan819 wrote:

(#7)

EDawg2011 wrote:

Gamer_Logan819 wrote:

I think it’s snap!.
This is Scratch, not Snap.
Is that the case though? Is it really? Or is it just a figment of your imagination? What if scratch never existed, and you’re just hallucinating? All of these people you’ve met, they might not be anything more than a figment of your imagination? And now that you know this, you have to ask yourself the question: is scratch real? Are you truly on an online platform named scratch? Or are you dreaming, seeing this so-called “programming for kids platform” in a completely different way from everybody else? How can you fully be sure you’re not hallucinating? How can you be so sure that there is a real thing called scratch?

(>:3)::boolean #000000 // this is my evil kumquat generator, this is where all the evil kumquats come from.
(>:3)
(>:3)
(>:3)

a woam ate the rest of my signature
HataDad
Scratcher
19 posts

Make Scratch simpler to modify (formerly: implement Scratch in Smalltalk again)

Smalltalk has some issues like being a 5 level object oriented language.

How about Scala instead? hehe

Powered by DjangoBB