Change Scratch target audience

Queer_Royalty

There are plenty of 16+ year-olds on the site right now. Changing the age range wouldn't do anything but, as you said,

Narrowing down the Scratch audience to target younger users is a point the Scratch Team can make to the older users, as Scratch can turn around and say “you are not the audience, so we will not implement advanced mechanisms like exponents”.

This is the only pro in my opinion – make older users stop complaining. But it is not 100% age-related. There are plenty of brilliant young coders who would still complain. This could make a lot of people leave (there are a lot of 13-year-olds, for example) because “we're gonna get in trouble if we stay using it.” To put it bluntly, the amount of mature 13-year-olds who use their brains and know what ‘target audience’ means is probably in the minority.

In summary, this could have a couple unwanted effects, but would have the pro of the Scratch Team having an excuse to not add advanced code blocks.

i would like to sincerely apologize for the above post.

i am stupid, weird, worthless, and in general a bad person but at least i am decent at platformers.

NanoRook

Sorry but I disagree pretty heavily. The Lifelong Kindergarten Foundation has designed every facet of Scratch from the ground up with their target audience and age range in mind. To have to rebuild everything from the ground up and change design goals entirely would not only be time-consuming, but monumentally expensive.

Going by the rule of personal experience is not a great idea. My primary and secondary schools never taught Scratch in their computer classes–does that mean we should lower the target demographic range even further? No, it just means that that was my experience with how schools saw Scratch. Your entire point is based on this flawed perspective and it hurts everything else about the argument you present here.

Scratch is great, but moving on from it is a part of life if you're serious about wanting to learn more advanced languages like JS, Python, C, etc. That's the whole point of Scratch–it's training wheels so you can learn to ride the bike before you go down the hill.

I LOVE BEING PURPLE!!!! JOIN THE PURPLE COALITION TODAY IF YOU ALSO LOVE BEING PURPLE. PURPLE IS THE NEW BLUE! PURPLE IS THE SUPERIOR NAVBAR COLOR! YYYEAAHHHHH BABY!!!!

SomeoneOnThelnternet

Semi-support. While I see where you're coming from, I feel like the target audience is fine as-is. If someone feels like Scratch is too basic, they can always use a different language such as JS or Python.

dertermenter

NanoRook wrote:
Your entire point is based on this flawed perspective and it hurts everything else about the argument you present here.

I know that the argument may not apply to everyone due to different cultures; I kinda assumed that other countries education systems would teach coding, depending on that apparently a lot of users here are students. Your posts do bring dangers to the suggestion, but I still do not think that Scratch is currently being designed with 16-year-olds in account.

Thoughts on AFD on the forums

The2000 wrote:
All suggestions are unnecessary. If a suggestion is necessary then it's a bug report.

dertermenter wrote:
April Fools Day on the forums has been a repeated privilege, not an expectation

I_LOVE_TO_MAKE_STUFF

dertermenter wrote:
NanoRook wrote:
Your entire point is based on this flawed perspective and it hurts everything else about the argument you present here.
I know that the argument may not apply to everyone due to different cultures; I kinda assumed that other countries education systems would teach coding, depending on that apparently a lot of users here are students. Your posts do bring dangers to the suggestion, but I still do not think that Scratch is currently being designed with 16-year-olds in account.

I think it is designed for all ages, after all, you could make your own functions using costume blocks, and heck, even griffpatch uses Scratch, and he codes Java!

press ctrl+shift+down to see my full siggy!
1000th post
Scratch Team, please add targeted links for the forums!

FIRST EVER SCRATCH PROJECT!!!!!!! IT'S HISTORY!
I have a github account! I can make Websites!
People in the suggestions forums:
YOU MUST READ THIS!!!!

Check out The Forum Helpers!
#StandwithUkraine I am Ukrainian, and lots of my family lives there, please pray for Ukraine

Helpful emoji: ███

Spentine

No support, this would break a lot of projects that use trigonometry.

pls dont comment “a” on my profile

also my connect 4 AI

dave-alt-4

Spentine wrote:
No support, this would break a lot of projects that use trigonometry.

wut? he isn't suggesting to ban complex projects or remove blocks , just simply changing the description

guide to make good projects <3

Think! Is saying if you support a suggestion necessary? No! People can just tell by your constructive post after it. You have more freedom on your tone!
Forumers, especially new, may also get upset if you say “no support!!!” at them! They may take the whole post in a negative tone, and that makes them upset!
Instead, you can kindly say why their suggestion has cons. They will take it as “constructive criticism” and be happy. - dertermenter

10goto10

Queer_Royalty wrote:
…
Narrowing down the Scratch audience to target younger users is a point the Scratch Team can make to the older users, as Scratch can turn around and say “you are not the audience, so we will not implement advanced mechanisms like exponents”.
This is the only pro in my opinion – make older users stop complaining. …

I agree with this but I think it could be said in a more positive way. I’m going to copy something that I posted a few days ago in a different topic:

it would be a kindness to the community if the moderators would just close any suggestions (concerning new blocks, editor and paint enhancements). They do this now for rejected suggestions to keep us from wasting our time. They should show us the same love by keeping us from discussing suggestions about any aspect not currently under any real or likely consideration for change.

Or maybe the formers could take this on by posting this on each suggestion about new blocks, new editor features, or new paint editor features:

“It’s great when people have enough interest in Scratch that they want to share their ideas but, just so you know, those of us who regularly use the forums have noticed that the Scratch Team is not looking at any suggestions about new blocks, new editor features, or new paint editor features and has no apparent plans to modify them. We’ve been recommending that people just close topics suggesting these type of changes, such as the one you have made here, rather than waste time discussing ideas that will not be included in any foreseeable planned change.

Instead, you might want to take a look at other programming sites, such as Snap! that have a wider range of features.

Scratch On,
———”

Do you have an Animate a Name project that you'd like to have added to a studio? Please leave a comment

in this studio.

dertermenter

Bump

Thoughts on AFD on the forums

The2000 wrote:
All suggestions are unnecessary. If a suggestion is necessary then it's a bug report.

dertermenter wrote:
April Fools Day on the forums has been a repeated privilege, not an expectation

jackson49

No support. I understand your point, but I think the cons outweigh the pros. I think lowering the age range would make a lot of teenagers feel self-conscious using Scratch. Alienating a lot of Scratch users just to stop some of them from complaining doesn't seem like a good idea.

Last edited by jackson49 (Feb. 4, 2022 19:06:54)

PC LOAD LETTER

;

bobcat0701

semi-support

I will probably always curate and help in studios and post on the forums but I rarely make projects but also I can barely code in anything but scratch and advanced blocks would probably help older users learn more advanced langauges

Here's an expanded about me I guess:

-Caleb/bobcat0701 He/They
-Bisexual
-Nintendo Collector
-Professional short person
-Speedrunner
-Pasta addict

Some accomplishments;
100 forum posts (January 2021)
500 forum posts (February 2021)
1000 forum posts (February 2022)
Joined TFH (October 2023)
Promoted to TFH manager (December 2023)
Tied for second place in TFH host election (April 2024)

Current primary devices (I have a few more that I collect)
Phone: Blue Titanium iPhone 15 pro
Tablet: Purple iPad mini 6th generation
Computer: Cheap HP laptop thing
Gaming Systems: Wii U deluxe set, Black new 3ds xl, White Nintendo Switch oled
Music player: Pink ipod nano 6th generation

Random personal stuff about myself that isn't above:
Ethnicity and religion:
I'm ethnically Ashkenazi Jewish and italian. In terms of religion I'd consider myself agnostic.

Politics:
I'd consider myself a centrist typically I lean left but I also hold some opinions that could be considered right leaning. Overall I'd say I'm Libertarian.

Knife rant:
Spending lots of money on carving knives has never made sense to me I've used the same $20 Morakniv since 2018 and as long as I sharpen it regularly it is still sharp enough for carving and basically any other task. I'm sure I'm the only person on the forums who cares about any of that but thanks for reading I guess.

If you're down here comment “forumers be like” on my profile

…

-CloudGate-

I agree that it doesn't really fit, but the age range you came up with doesn't really fit. just see how scratch's age range captures most people:

box of Asian citrus psyllids and please give me an internet here

k0d3rrr

No support. Reasons are obvious, see above.

Animated button created by me

Despite what my About section says, I have been using Scratch before 2019. 2019 was the year that I first joined Scratch.

dertermenter

bump, although I can kinda see the points aligned above.

I kinda assumed that the USA school district would be the same as UK, but it seems it is different, and teenagers are still joining…

Thoughts on AFD on the forums

The2000 wrote:
All suggestions are unnecessary. If a suggestion is necessary then it's a bug report.

dertermenter wrote:
April Fools Day on the forums has been a repeated privilege, not an expectation

mrrecordman

The current age group is fine. And scratchers can be of all ages.

Ernie bangs the sound,
But no one's spoken since half past four

put this in your signature if you have abandoned your account

k0d3rrr

Okay, I'm changing to semi-support because while I do think that kids over 12 would feel abandoned from Scratch if it was changed from “8-16” to “7-12”, I think that it would improve coding skills in the future, though it would be very confusing.

Animated button created by me

Despite what my About section says, I have been using Scratch before 2019. 2019 was the year that I first joined Scratch.

-AMETHYSTQUEEN-

Semi-Support.

As someone who falls in the age range of the majority of Scratchers, I don't want to be cut out or feel excluded from Scratch in those terms. Also Scratch isn't supposed to be a complicated coding language. It's like the training wheels on bikes; their purpose is to prepare you to ride without them.

But I wouldn't mind having SOME more advanced blocks/features to play around with. I think they might be helpful. Like, we have a ‘create a block’ function, and that isn't really for beginners. But I wouldn't push for this since if you feel Scratch is too basic, there's always other coding languages like Python or HTML

Control + Down Shift for more

SIMP
I have problems, don't worry about it

Xonder

-CloudGate- wrote:
I agree that it doesn't really fit, but the age range you came up with doesn't really fit. just see how scratch's age range captures most people:

I was going to bring this up, as well.
The targeted age group fits well with the age analytics fit the current targeted age group very well, in fact - according to the analytics, which yes, some people may lie- but this is what the ST has to work with, there are more 17 yros than 8 yros. (just barely though) - but even more so 18 yros.

I think the targeted age group is fine as is, I apologize.

hi, i just pop in here occasionally, dont mind me ^^

I_LOVE_TO_MAKE_STUFF

-CloudGate- wrote:

I think they should actually extend it

press ctrl+shift+down to see my full siggy!
1000th post
Scratch Team, please add targeted links for the forums!

FIRST EVER SCRATCH PROJECT!!!!!!! IT'S HISTORY!
I have a github account! I can make Websites!
People in the suggestions forums:
YOU MUST READ THIS!!!!

Check out The Forum Helpers!
#StandwithUkraine I am Ukrainian, and lots of my family lives there, please pray for Ukraine

Helpful emoji: ███

beanyboy512

kinda rejected as per TOLORS

Rejected suggestions wrote:
7.2 A 13+ version of the Scratch website or age-restricted content
Scratch is designed for ages 8 to 16, but any content shared on the website must be appropriate for all ages. Dividing the community by making a separate, age-restricted website would not be helpful. Potential restrictions from entering the website (such as a warning, or requiring a parent to answer math equations) would not necessarily stop an underage child from entering the 13+ website.

The image below is publicly controlled, i may remove it if i do not condone what it is

Discuss Scratch