TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

Aidanthedumm wrote:

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

Aidanthedumm wrote:

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

But you aren't American, are you? Debating the severity of issues in America deserves a whole topic to its own…
i am this close to deleting that section from my post

I might not be American, but during the Covid days of 2020-2021 I've seen enough news and footage of people who are in America who will just beat up anyone that looks Chinese, blame them for Covid, commit violent hate crimes in Chinatown etc. Still hold an impact on how severe it is and as a Chinese person I still think about it till this day.

I'm pretty sure it stopped. Besides, I think this is getting a little off-topic.

My point in the end is that it should be equal for all minorities if they want to make a forum post. Also you seem to be pretty good at denying serious issues when you seem to keep demanding me for further explanation and debates, but after explaining you sweep it off like it's nothing.

Can you give me an example of that?

^ Comment chain is off-topic. Please keep on topic.

-Squiggle wrote:

hot655 wrote:

I’d argue that there shouldn’t be a forum post for autism acceptance, after thinking it through. Rather, I think there should be a forum post for acceptance of neurodiversity in general. This is basically a compass of everything neurodivergent, eg. Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia, etc etc

I agree there should be some celebration of neurodiversity in general, but autism acceptance month itself deserves its own recognition. if there was a post on neurodiversity acceptance, I think it should be during an event like Neurodiversity Celebration Week (https://www.neurodiversityweek.com/). that way it wouldn't risk clouding understanding of autism acceptance (I find sometimes when neurodiversity is only mentioned in the context of autism awareness, instead of autism, people don't realise that neurodivergent means a different thing from autistic, so it's good to educate about these individually or at least define them individually).

Having them both might be a fairly good idea as well, actually, celebrating two different events.

hot655 wrote:

-Squiggle wrote:

hot655 wrote:

I’d argue that there shouldn’t be a forum post for autism acceptance, after thinking it through. Rather, I think there should be a forum post for acceptance of neurodiversity in general. This is basically a compass of everything neurodivergent, eg. Autism, ADHD, Dyslexia, etc etc

I agree there should be some celebration of neurodiversity in general, but autism acceptance month itself deserves its own recognition. if there was a post on neurodiversity acceptance, I think it should be during an event like Neurodiversity Celebration Week (https://www.neurodiversityweek.com/). that way it wouldn't risk clouding understanding of autism acceptance (I find sometimes when neurodiversity is only mentioned in the context of autism awareness, instead of autism, people don't realise that neurodivergent means a different thing from autistic, so it's good to educate about these individually or at least define them individually).

Having them both might be a fairly good idea as well, actually, celebrating two different events.

But if a post is made for neurodiversity acceptance, there will be no need for a post for autism acceptance

BringUpYourPost wrote:

A forum post is needed as autistic people do face harrasement.

cheddargirl wrote:

Cat-out-of-the-bag: We sometimes use threads for certain holidays/events after finding that users with less than ideal values were harassing projects and studios we feature for that holiday/event. Using a thread promoting project/studio creation around that topic deflects that harassment. Not all threads are for this purpose, but overall, a forum post shouldn't be thought of as more superior than a project/studio feature. It isn't, especially for a creative community where there is greater value is presenting stuff made by others.

I semi-support this suggestion.

It would spread awareness and help autistic people feel more accepted, but there are a few issues with this:

a) “Othering” autistic people
To make a community feel truly accepted and “fit in” to a certain degree, making a forum post for them might make them feel different. There's nothing wrong with difference, per se, but to make them feel as though they are a different species, as though they're just not like “normal people” is not appropriate. Some might not like this, and we should consider their feelings too, even if they might be only a few.

b) Faking autism
When topics about awareness are started, so does feigning disability and neurodivergence. It does occur, very often, usually in the form of:

I really like this studio/project/topic as it makes me feel accepted, as an autistic person.

As an autistic person, I feel wayyyy more accepted because of this. Thank you so much!

c) Name names
Sometimes people make awareness by naming specific people they know (or think) have the disability/religion/other the topic is about. The intentions are not necessarily negative, but doing this can be harmful. When I say “naming names”, I mean this:

I can't wait to show my friend @Examplefriend this! He/she/they are/is autistic.

These issues are unlikely to occur, if I'm being honest, but they are possible, and it's important to consider problems, even if they are unlikely. Thanks

hydrofungus wrote:

Za-Chary wrote:

undeterminstic wrote:

. Using a thread promoting project/studio creation around that topic deflects that harassment.

Where is the part where she said "groups that face harassment deserve a forum post"?

Oh yeah *ahem* i would like someone to answer zuh-cherry’s question please, we can’t make an argument surrounding an unclear source

Yo can someone answer this

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

But if a post is made for neurodiversity acceptance, there will be no need for a post for autism acceptance

…how come? they are both important for a number of different reasons, and they're both quite different topics, I don't think one becomes “unnecessary” if we celebrate another as well. also they wouldn't both necessarily need to be posts, it's already been mentioned that posts aren't the top priority over studios and projects.

hydrofungus wrote:

hydrofungus wrote:

Za-Chary wrote:

undeterminstic wrote:

. Using a thread promoting project/studio creation around that topic deflects that harassment.

Where is the part where she said "groups that face harassment deserve a forum post"?

Oh yeah *ahem* i would like someone to answer zuh-cherry’s question please, we can’t make an argument surrounding an unclear source

Yo can someone answer this

no

This either needs to be accepted or rejected by ST very soon, otherwise this thread is gonna keep being active past autism/neurodivergence acceptance month

iiucandyfloss wrote:

I semi-support this suggestion.

It would spread awareness and help autistic people feel more accepted, but there are a few issues with this:

a) “Othering” autistic people
To make a community feel truly accepted and “fit in” to a certain degree, making a forum post for them might make them feel different. There's nothing wrong with difference, per se, but to make them feel as though they are a different species, as though they're just not like “normal people” is not appropriate. Some might not like this, and we should consider their feelings too, even if they might be only a few.

many autistic people already feel this way. we already recognise that we are different, we already feel like nobody accepts us. because this often happens to us our entire lives, people subconsciously notice and treat us differently no matter how hard we try to fit in and if we aren't “labeled” as autistic, we get called other things like “weird” or “lazy” or “attention seeking”. simply recognising that autism exists is not “othering” autistic people. but refusing to acknowledge autistic people exist could be. the point of autism acceptance is to recognise that difference is normal, and that non-autistic people are not the default “normal” kind of person. there is no normal, no neurotype is inherently better than another, we are different not less.
many autistic people do struggle with internalised ableism *ahem* a few posts on this thread which can make us feel guilty, angry that we are autistic, and want to hide ourselves. but the only way to help with this in the long term is by actively finding ways to include autistic people better (and include everyone better) so the kind of exclusion that we face (and witness and learn and internalise) in order to feel these things happens less in the first place. that only happens when we make changes and educate, it doesn't happen when we hide or ignore autistic people's experiences.

b) Faking autism
When topics about awareness are started, so does feigning disability and neurodivergence. It does occur, very often, usually in the form of:

I really like this studio/project/topic as it makes me feel accepted, as an autistic person.

As an autistic person, I feel wayyyy more accepted because of this. Thank you so much!

it's important to respect everyone for their identities on Scratch as long as they are not causing any harm. if someone is causing harm, it's not because of their identity, it's because they're causing harm. for example, if someone says they are autistic and spreads misinformation about autism, that's not because of them saying they're autistic that's the source of the problem, it's the misinformation they're spreading and what they might have learned themselves in order to pass that on.
blaming problematic behaviour on “faking” autism and trying to gatekeep the autistic community doesn't help us, and often goes the other way where autistic people are accused of faking, feel more impostor syndrome, and aren't respected for who we are.
as far as I can tell, both these comments are completely harmless, and there's no way to tell if someone is “faking” autism from reading them. there's no way to tell if someone is “faking” their identity anyway, because we are all anonymous strangers online. (I bet lots of people “fake” not being autistic, I know I do as an autistic person /hj)

c) Name names
Sometimes people make awareness by naming specific people they know (or think) have the disability/religion/other the topic is about. The intentions are not necessarily negative, but doing this can be harmful. When I say “naming names”, I mean this:

I can't wait to show my friend @Examplefriend this! He/she/they are/is autistic.

could this kind of naming be reported? I've encountered this before and I wasn't sure. I suppose it's similar to if someone was to out an LGBTQ+ person online without their consent. it might be unintentional, but it can still be potentially harmful and hurtful to that person. I'm not sure what the best way to deal with this would be. it hasn't happened too often though in autism studios and spaces I'm active in, and nothing particularly bad has happened because of it as far as I'm aware.

iiucandyfloss wrote:

a) “Othering” autistic people
To make a community feel truly accepted and “fit in” to a certain degree, making a forum post for them might make them feel different. There's nothing wrong with difference, per se, but to make them feel as though they are a different species, as though they're just not like “normal people” is not appropriate. Some might not like this, and we should consider their feelings too, even if they might be only a few.

Objection: When we did pride month LGBTQ people weren't othered. Also I am already othered, there isn't further othering that can be done

Gamer_Logan819 wrote:

This either needs to be accepted or rejected by ST very soon, otherwise this thread is gonna keep being active past autism/neurodivergence acceptance month

So?

Gamer_Logan819 wrote:

This either needs to be accepted or rejected by ST very soon, otherwise this thread is gonna keep being active past autism/neurodivergence acceptance month

Or it's going to violently blow up like they all do. I'm going to stand back.

Za-Chary wrote:

Gamer_Logan819 wrote:

This either needs to be accepted or rejected by ST very soon, otherwise this thread is gonna keep being active past autism/neurodivergence acceptance month

So?

perhaps not related to why it reasonably should or not, but I personally experience a strong need for things to feel resolved after a set time frame because otherwise they stick in my head indefinitely and anxiety and stress builds up. unpredictability is very overwhelming for me as an autistic person which may be a reason why I struggle to use the forums or bring up concerns, and may be a reason why arguments arise for other people, with a sense of urgency

if this thread does need to be closed after autism month, i don’t think we need to worry about that yet since the month isn’t even half over yet

Rey_venclaw wrote:

if this thread does need to be closed after autism month, i don’t think we need to worry about that yet since the month isn’t even half over yet

If the time frame is too tight and things need a longer discussion, then a tentative deadline could be April of next year, which would give a lot more ample time for people to make a lot of projects or come up with an acceptable draft to present to the ST for consideration and review well ahead of time.

BringUpYourPost wrote:

hydrofungus wrote:

hydrofungus wrote:

Za-Chary wrote:

undeterminstic wrote:

. Using a thread promoting project/studio creation around that topic deflects that harassment.

Where is the part where she said "groups that face harassment deserve a forum post"?

Oh yeah *ahem* i would like someone to answer zuh-cherry’s question please, we can’t make an argument surrounding an unclear source

Yo can someone answer this

no

So why did you make that statement

bump

-Squiggle wrote:

perhaps not related to why it reasonably should or not, but I personally experience a strong need for things to feel resolved after a set time frame because otherwise they stick in my head indefinitely and anxiety and stress builds up. unpredictability is very overwhelming for me as an autistic person which may be a reason why I struggle to use the forums or bring up concerns, and may be a reason why arguments arise for other people, with a sense of urgency

to expand on my last post where I was actually honest about something I struggle with, since I think I haven't been entirely transparent with my other posts when it might help:

(disclaimer, I'm being openly honest about my feelings and experiences in this post so please be respectful even if you don't relate or understand. I'm writing this to try and give a better picture of how I feel about this topic, because I think I tend to be careful about my emotions otherwise and people might not realise how much it matters to me.)

I use Scratch as an outlet for my creativity, as one of the only suitable, available outlets for my creativity.
I want to learn things and interact with people and make a difference to the world, but I am not able to go to school, purely due to discrimination because of the fact that I'm autistic. I have been waiting for years to go to school and have been let down by services that are supposed to support me over and over again. because of ableism, I cannot participate in real life and have all the great (and bad and silly and fun) experiences that other people my age do, in the way that I should be able to.
but Scratch has been here the entire time and I have been able to continue to have fun, work hard at advancing my own skills, make friends and talk about things that matter to me on Scratch. and I found it all myself.
this website makes me feel included and safe and human, but I don't know if Scratch realises the significance of this. I don't know if people running the Scratch website are aware that Scratch is so accessible and (I believe) frequently very important for autistic people.
the way Scratch's diversity and inclusion is addressed by the Scratch Team (currently and in the future) means a lot to me.

Scratch is great at empowering young people to lead our own learning and creations,
so when people from marginalised groups do present them here and talk about what we want to see (example: this thread's original suggestion, my previous posts here, the reasons I gave for why a project or studio would be important, and why help from the Scratch Team would be important), please listen and give us this platform to showcase who we are and our creations, and please do focus on making it easier for us to be part of the changes we want to see in the world.
I believe actively working from the other end to enable inclusion and listening to us is much more important than accounting for any additional confusion that might be taken away from this discussion, or the frustratingly controversial topic of autism in general. I believe all of the negative possibilities we have been discussing are much less powerful than taking some form of action, and not waiting or backing away. because even the smallest, easiest changes in showing support can make such a big difference to how we are understood and treated.
waiting or doing nothing due to a perceived lack in contribution from Scratchers (lack of drafts, or lack of project suggestions) doesn't help, especially if we don't know how to contribute or have already spent time and effort trying to contribute that just hasn't been recognised for some reason.
it's especially important that our views are heard when everywhere else is so much less accessible and oftentimes hostile (both IRL and in terms of social media), and finding ways of working anywhere where we can really thrive is so much harder for us. particularly when it comes to autism, because it is an invisible disability, it may not be clear that the things about us and our creations that subtly translate as unconventional to you that everyone expects to be hidden are the things that make us who we are, not personality flaws or something we will grow out of.

for me, using the forums to express my ideas does not come intuitively and waiting to see if something is featured or not without any confirmation does not come intuitively either.
because I cannot go to school and am not given as many opportunities IRL, the majority of my work in life in general is currently put into Scratch projects, studios and comments. the way I am most able to communicate authentically is online, like this. my skills are visible here and not much else, nobody else recognises them right now other than strangers online. my efforts to educate peers about autism are not an bonus extra endeavour in my life, they are currently all of it, and I love it, being able to express myself this way gives me hope and confidence for the future.
I am very passionate about autism advocacy because of being autistic (not only due to my experiences but also because it's literally an autism trait), and so the unpredictability of what might or might not be done about this this April actually affects me very significantly (not only because it matters to me but also because it's an autism trait that autistic people struggle with unpredictability, and structure and routine can enable us to cope better so that is a form of accessibility and unpredictability can count as inaccessibility for us). I feel emotions on a very deep level even if I don't openly show it, and right now inside I feel stressed and confused because there is no clear pattern in the way Scratch features content, but to me there is a pattern I recognise that neurodiversity is just as important as other topics that are more regularly featured by the Scratch Team (like LGBTQ+ pride), and the lack of neurodiversity content being promoted stands out to me and it feels confusing and not fair. and it's not like I haven't done anything, it's not like it's just a new concept or people just need time to catch up, because we're actively trying to make positive changes happen, now.

I think this lack of direct communication about what will happen and the lack of certainty makes it very difficult for autistic people like me to engage in the community in the way that benefits us most, if we are not listened to back. (we are used to difficult things, this is not a criticism just an observation)

last year's Autism Awareness / Acceptance Month studio being featured was one of the best and most meaningful experiences of my life. I felt truly free to be myself, I felt truly accepted, in a way that I had not ever felt before I found the Scratch community - and I hope to work to carry that over to my life IRL too, using the skills that Scratch has helped me develop, so that neurodiversity acceptance isn't limited to online spaces. it felt like I am a step closer to being recognised in the world for what I really can do.
I (logically and emotionally) can't understand why that might not happen again this year, when me and other people have worked just as hard to create a studio that would be suitable this year - and have suggested other ideas too. it is painstakingly hard to wait, full of uncertainty, for something to happen, when it might… just not. not quite knowing what to do, just guessing, but creative energy depleting.

I don't know how to use the forums to talk about this because it's very hard to be listened to here in comparison to the rest of the website. I usually try not to involve my feelings too much when making a good argument and I work very hard to communicate what I want to say in a way that is convenient for other people while staying true to my thoughts. I don't know if this is recognised though, which is why I am writing this instead this time. but I am hesitant to talk about my own opinions because I know other Scratchers deserve opportunities to be heard, and it's hard to post things anywhere on the forums without being confronted for them in a way that overwhelms me and makes me feel pressured to reply.
the Scratch Team intimidate me a bit in that the website they control was able to make me feel included, so they technically also have the power to make that stop at any point, even potentially by mistake. this might be true for other people with similar experiences to me of feeling included on the Scratch website.

Scratch is great at being accessible for autistics, and that already is enough, but it seriously would mean a lot if it could be recognised more formally/on a bigger level how Scratch benefits autistic people and use it to help increase acceptance of us - and help show the amazing things we can do when we are given the right tools and environment, seeing as Scratch is already such a brilliant platform for that.

I don't know if there is any value in these words when I haven't perfected them and I know it's not directly about the idea of a forum announcement, but these are discussion forums for discussing things so I thought I might as well contribute what my experience is as best I can with the energy I've got.
thanks for reading

-Squiggle wrote:

I (logically and emotionally) can't understand why that might not happen again this year, when me and other people have worked just as hard to create a studio that would be suitable this year - and have suggested other ideas too. it is painstakingly hard to wait, full of uncertainty, for something to happen, when it might… just not. not quite knowing what to do, just guessing, but creative energy depleting.

Was it this studio (and, if so was it suggested in the proposal of projects to be featured thread and when)?

Community management is hard, what feels like from end-users should take a few days or a few weeks takes more than that (featured stuff usually gets queued by the ST in advance, forum posts drafts take longer and are reviewed months ahead of time). This year has been, to put bluntly, very sucky in terms of managing community stuff since we're dealing with a lot more unexpected not so great stuff thrown our way (notably the implementation of the Digital Services Act for legal compliance). As for the studio (assuming I've picked the right one you are talking about), I can try to propel that studio under the noses of other ST members for review for featurability (just be aware it would be “rushed” action, which isn't very pleasant from an emotional and mental standpoint esp. when legal compliance is hanging over our heads).

yes i believe that studio was proposed to be featured near the end of march