Discuss Scratch

cheeseeater
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

Following is now officially out of hand. Have you seen the all the accounts, which purpose is just to F4F? Not meaning to name and shame, but to prove my point here is one. Quite a few scratchers have left over this, though in my opinion they just left because they where moving on and decided to make a meal out of it. Anywhoo, here is what needs to be done:

#1 Remove followers and alike ideas
(not recommended)
#2 Keep following, but remove the list of followers and number count. Rename it subscribing.
(recommended)

Zro716 wrote:

#3 1) Rename follow as “subscribe”, because it better fits “receiving updates” than following which some people interpret as friends on twitter; 2) Put the follower/following lists below profile comments –or hide them altogether– to show they are less of a priority than most other things; 3) Maybe put up an announcement that the Scratch Team is at least aware of the follow trades and are deciding its future.

AonymousGuy wrote:

#4
Because following makes a user seem “popular”, and being “popular” is something that people seem to want to do, people will do anything to get more followers.I thought of something that might help - make it so when 2 users are following each other, the users are both taken from the follower count and instead added to a “friends” list - which does not tell you the number, only the names of the users. This would make sense, because if two users are following each other, they are doing so because they are either friends IRL, or both like the other's projects, making a more “friendly” connection between the users, thus making them more “friends” than followers.This way, F4F will not increase a user's follower count at all, while still allowing users to know who they are friends with, and still allowing users to receive notifications.

Zro716 wrote:

#5 So I think I know how to fix the follow system. Right now, it's pretty dry, because following only “works” if you view the front page. But since I don't do that much, I'm often left to the elements to figure out what new projects were shared by who. The solution: messages. If you follow someone, you receive updates about the user you followed, but emphasis falls short on “receive updates” because you don't actually receive notifications. So whenever someone shares a project or makes/curates/follows a studio, you'll receive a message.

Changing ‘following’ to subscribing would be great, as it fits the description of following better. ‘Following’ sounds like social networks and that, subscribing is more descriptive of what it is.

I would like constructive feedback and more solutions please. cheese

Last edited by cheeseeater (June 29, 2014 20:56:42)

AonymousGuy
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

Well this is kind of a duplicate…

But one of the more radical solutions might be to be able to remove your followers.
cheeseeater
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

AonymousGuy wrote:

Well this is kind of a duplicate…

But one of the more radical solutions might be to be able to remove your followers.
As the user who made it has now left, it might make sense to start again. But good point.
cardinalland
Scratcher
100+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

I think the follower count should stay but it should be renamed subscribing. I don't do anything in the field of follow4follow but I like stats and like to see the number.

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Chainmanner
Scratcher
100+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

What'll renaming it to “subscribers” do? And I don't see much of a problem here yet.
mathfreak231
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

There's definitely a problem, but I really don't see how the name change you suggested is going to change anything at all.

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RandomPerson1789
Scratcher
100+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

I think we should just get rid of followers. It creates jealousy among scratchers.
AonymousGuy
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

RandomPerson1789 wrote:

I think we should just get rid of followers. It creates jealousy among scratchers.
No, that surely isn't the solution - followers are actually useful when you want to see what someone is doing.
cheeseeater
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

Chainmanner wrote:

What'll renaming it to “subscribers” do? And I don't see much of a problem here yet.

mathfreak231 wrote:

There's definitely a problem, but I really don't see how the name change you suggested is going to change anything at all.
Exactly, it would do nothing. But it would focus Scratch away from a social networking site approach. Also, some people get a bit nervous about the word following. Subscribing, in my opinion, better suits the description of following.
Superandultra
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

I quite agreee with this, Follow4follow's are really annoying, i understand that people make scratch accounts for the sake of following people and being able to comment and stuff, but F4F is quite annoying, but there really is nothing we can do, their like flies, we hate them, but we can't make flies illegal, because their not doing anything that could be seriously bad!

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Zro716
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

I talked to Paddle2See about this, and this is what he said:
… I find it hard to believe that somebody would leave Scratch because of a social bargaining trend. We've had people trading favorites and loves for years and years. I personally don't care for those kinds of practices - but there's no way to prevent them.
I'm hoping the Scratch Team can change their minds about this and finally put an end to shameless ploys for fame.

As a long time Scratcher, I have found new meaning to the name “Scratch”: for me, it means to “scratch that itch”, to come back again and again to realize new ideas in this toy language, even when I'm capable of creating my projects in real programming languages years later. It's a friend that helped me to pursue programming and get me to enjoy its fruit. I'm certain many others who have walked this path as well have grown fond of its importance in their life.
cheeseeater
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

Zro716 wrote:

I talked to Paddle2See about this, and this is what he said:
… I find it hard to believe that somebody would leave Scratch because of a social bargaining trend. We've had people trading favorites and loves for years and years. I personally don't care for those kinds of practices - but there's no way to prevent them.
I'm hoping the Scratch Team can change their minds about this and finally put an end to shameless ploys for fame.
Thanks! It's helpful to have an ST opinion on this.
Zro716
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

cheeseeater wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

I talked to Paddle2See about this, and this is what he said:
… I find it hard to believe that somebody would leave Scratch because of a social bargaining trend. We've had people trading favorites and loves for years and years. I personally don't care for those kinds of practices - but there's no way to prevent them.
I'm hoping the Scratch Team can change their minds about this and finally put an end to shameless ploys for fame.
Thanks! It's helpful to have an ST opinion on this.
There's more. I replied to Paddle explaining why my friend left and the legacy he intends to make, and he said:

Paddle2See wrote:

I've got mixed feelings about it. For new Scratchers, it's a way to get some people looking at your work and perhaps a first step to friendship. Another part of me thinks that you should reserve your follows for people who's projects you definitely are interested in viewing. What concrete steps would you suggest to improve the situation?
To which I suggested the following:

I wrote:

1) Rename follow as “subscribe”, because it better fits “receiving updates” than following which some people interpret as friends on twitter; 2) Put the follower/following lists below profile comments –or hide them altogether– to show they are less of a priority than most other things; 3) Maybe put up an announcement that the Scratch Team is at least aware of the follow trades and are deciding its future.

As a long time Scratcher, I have found new meaning to the name “Scratch”: for me, it means to “scratch that itch”, to come back again and again to realize new ideas in this toy language, even when I'm capable of creating my projects in real programming languages years later. It's a friend that helped me to pursue programming and get me to enjoy its fruit. I'm certain many others who have walked this path as well have grown fond of its importance in their life.
AonymousGuy
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

The whole problem does *not* root in F4F, but rather followers themselves.

Because following makes a user seem “popular”, and being “popular” is something that people seem to want to do, people will do anything to get more followers.

I thought of something that might help - make it so when 2 users are following each other, the users are both taken from the follower count and instead added to a “friends” list - which does not tell you the number, only the names of the users. This would make sense, because if two users are following each other, they are doing so because they are either friends IRL, or both like the other's projects, making a more “friendly” connection between the users, thus making them more “friends” than followers.

This way, F4F will not increase a user's follower count at all, while still allowing users to know who they are friends with, and still allowing users to receive notifications.
cheeseeater
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

Zro716 wrote:

cheeseeater wrote:

Zro716 wrote:

I talked to Paddle2See about this, and this is what he said:
… I find it hard to believe that somebody would leave Scratch because of a social bargaining trend. We've had people trading favorites and loves for years and years. I personally don't care for those kinds of practices - but there's no way to prevent them.
I'm hoping the Scratch Team can change their minds about this and finally put an end to shameless ploys for fame.
Thanks! It's helpful to have an ST opinion on this.
There's more. I replied to Paddle explaining why my friend left and the legacy he intends to make, and he said:

Paddle2See wrote:

I've got mixed feelings about it. For new Scratchers, it's a way to get some people looking at your work and perhaps a first step to friendship. Another part of me thinks that you should reserve your follows for people who's projects you definitely are interested in viewing. What concrete steps would you suggest to improve the situation?
To which I suggested the following:

Zro716 wrote:

1) Rename follow as “subscribe”, because it better fits “receiving updates” than following which some people interpret as friends on twitter; 2) Put the follower/following lists below profile comments –or hide them altogether– to show they are less of a priority than most other things; 3) Maybe put up an announcement that the Scratch Team is at least aware of the follow trades and are deciding its future.
I'll add your suggestion if you don't mind.
cheeseeater
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

AonymousGuy wrote:

The whole problem does *not* root in F4F, but rather followers themselves.

Because following makes a user seem “popular”, and being “popular” is something that people seem to want to do, people will do anything to get more followers.

I thought of something that might help - make it so when 2 users are following each other, the users are both taken from the follower count and instead added to a “friends” list - which does not tell you the number, only the names of the users. This would make sense, because if two users are following each other, they are doing so because they are either friends IRL, or both like the other's projects, making a more “friendly” connection between the users, thus making them more “friends” than followers.

This way, F4F will not increase a user's follower count at all, while still allowing users to know who they are friends with, and still allowing users to receive notifications.
Nice idea!
Blaze349
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

cheeseeater wrote:

Following is now officially out of hand. Have you seen the all the accounts, which purpose is just to F4F? Not meaning to name and shame, but to prove my point here is one. Quite a few scratchers have left over this, though in my opinion they just left because they where moving on and decided to make a meal out of it. Anywhoo, here is what needs to be done:

#1 Remove followers and alike ideas
(not recommended)
#2 Keep following, but remove the list of followers and number count. Rename it subscribing.
(recommended)

Zro716 wrote:

1) Rename follow as “subscribe”, because it better fits “receiving updates” than following which some people interpret as friends on twitter; 2) Put the follower/following lists below profile comments –or hide them altogether– to show they are less of a priority than most other things; 3) Maybe put up an announcement that the Scratch Team is at least aware of the follow trades and are deciding its future.

Changing ‘following’ to subscribing would be great, as it fits the description of following better. ‘Following’ sounds like social networks and that, subscribing is more descriptive of what it is.

I would like constructive feedback and more solutions please. cheese
Yes I support.

AonymousGuy wrote:

The whole problem does *not* root in F4F, but rather followers themselves.

Because following makes a user seem “popular”, and being “popular” is something that people seem to want to do, people will do anything to get more followers.

I thought of something that might help - make it so when 2 users are following each other, the users are both taken from the follower count and instead added to a “friends” list - which does not tell you the number, only the names of the users. This would make sense, because if two users are following each other, they are doing so because they are either friends IRL, or both like the other's projects, making a more “friendly” connection between the users, thus making them more “friends” than followers.

This way, F4F will not increase a user's follower count at all, while still allowing users to know who they are friends with, and still allowing users to receive notifications.
Support. ProdigyZeta7 left because of this . Maybe the ST could let us report f4f comments and accounts or maybe they could automatically delete anything with f4f or follow for follow with an alert pointing to the community guidelines which would also have a rule agains taking following to the extreme.
Personally I just follow people I want to keep stats with or if I want to be friends.
Blaze349
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

AonymousGuy wrote:

The whole problem does *not* root in F4F, but rather followers themselves.

Because following makes a user seem “popular”, and being “popular” is something that people seem to want to do, people will do anything to get more followers.

I thought of something that might help - make it so when 2 users are following each other, the users are both taken from the follower count and instead added to a “friends” list - which does not tell you the number, only the names of the users. This would make sense, because if two users are following each other, they are doing so because they are either friends IRL, or both like the other's projects, making a more “friendly” connection between the users, thus making them more “friends” than followers.

This way, F4F will not increase a user's follower count at all, while still allowing users to know who they are friends with, and still allowing users to receive notifications.
Yes I would like to see a friend list. I think friends is better suited to scratch rather than followers which makes it too much like twitter.
Blaze349
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

RandomPerson1789 wrote:

I think we should just get rid of followers. It creates jealousy among scratchers.
Who would be jealous? I am a scratcher and I am not.
WafflezOnAStick
Scratcher
100+ posts

The followers problem, this needs to be sorted.

I like the “subscribing” idea. Shall I add? You could only do like a F4F style-thing if you know them in RL. How would Scratch know this? Well, I used to play Wizard101 (I know, I know. “Why would you play that?” “BLERG?” I said used) And they had this thing called Truefriends, where you can get special chatting abilities and such if you verify you know the person in real life. They gave you a code that you gave to your friend in RL. They type it in and viola! You are Truefriends! I suggest in order to F4F, you must be able to communicate the code outside of Scratch, they type it in and, yeah.

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