Onion Skins and Scratch

wikibro300000

I like the idea, and I see that you wanted to link the nono word, that lets you already do it

paddle2see wrote:
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Last edited by wikibro300000 (April 15, 2023 09:20:26)

l

-ElectronicArts-

wikibro300000 wrote:
I like the idea, and I see that you wanted to link the nono word, that lets you already do it
paddle2see wrote:
*** Note from the Scratch Team ***

Please don't add links to browser extensions, userstyles or userscripts - that's going against this policy

some people doesn't use extensions.

-OdysseyCentral-

Support, it would be useful for me to animate sprites for my games.

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buzter325

I've been using a rudimentary version of this when doing drawn frame-by-frame, it would be great if the offline editor got something like this.

1-o-v-e

Bump/support;
coming from a fairly-experienced scratch animator: Not only would this be something that could extend /newer/ people's animating skills by exposing them to something nearly all animating softwares use, it's easy to control and is something that I honestly don't see the drawback to. If people don't want to use it, they wouldn't have to, but it would definitely greatly improve many animators time using the site.

–––––––
⧈ ⟦ 1ove or Marsh // she • her • hers // artist • animator ⟧ ⧈
Hey there! You can call me Marsh (or 1ove).
Although I'm relatively new to the forums, I've been on scratch for 5+ years. If you've been around for a while, feel free to pop by my profile—I love re-finding some fellow people from 2.0!

1-o-v-e

I made an onion skinning mock-up
It's better in the project since you can test-toggle all the options but here's an extra preview of it:

–––––––
⧈ ⟦ 1ove or Marsh // she • her • hers // artist • animator ⟧ ⧈
Hey there! You can call me Marsh (or 1ove).
Although I'm relatively new to the forums, I've been on scratch for 5+ years. If you've been around for a while, feel free to pop by my profile—I love re-finding some fellow people from 2.0!

PaperMarioFan2022

Bump

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mcsquaggle

Lukia26 wrote:
My question is simple (so sorry if someone already asked about this). Will Scratch ever add onion skins? If they did, that would be so awesome XD lol…just saying. You should be able to turn it on and off. For those who don't know what an onion skin is, it's the option to show a ghost image of the previous costume on the drawing screen, without it actually being part of that costume. It's very useful for animation. I've tried to use Pencil and import files into Scratch, but it never seems to work, the formatting is weird, etc. I'm not trying to ask too much, but this addition would make a huge difference to me.
Thanks for listening,

~Luki

*** Note from the Scratch Team ***

Please don't add links to browser extensions, userstyles or userscripts - that's going against this policy

i. need. this. support.

highlight and down arrow to see all of it
this is joe: joe is protecc

and this is frank (A-156 or RD-156): frank likes signatures for breakfast, HE EATS

oh noes! your signature was eaten by frank! img]https://cdn2.scratch.mit.edu/get_image/project/881644940_100x80.png[/img copy this (add back the ['s) to have frank eat your signature!

(:>::#bb88f6) //jerry says hi

set [ v] to (:>::#bb88f6)//jerry block

:>::#bb88f6 hat
:>::#bb88f6
:>(:>::#bb88f6)::#bb88f6
:> [#aa77e5]::#bb88f6
:> (:>::#bb88f6 boolean){
:>::#bb88f6
:>::#bb88f6
:> ( :> v) (:>::#bb88a1 stack) @addInput ::#bb88f6
:> ::#bb88f6 cap
} :> (:>::#bb88f6) ::#bb88f6
:> [:> v] ::#bb88f6 cap
::#bb88f6 boolean

B̴̴̸͕͖͖͕̪͔̻͑͒̓͑͑̔̐̕͝E̵̵̴̠̺͔͎̫͖͖̝͑̽̓̀̓̚͘̚A̴̴̸͔̠̟͉͎̼͚̝̿͊̀̐͑͌̓͛͜͠N̵̸̵̦̻̺͇͉͍͓͚͕͊̐̒̒̾̀̐̿

_FizziPOP_

Support!! It would make Scratch a WAY better site for animating! That's probably the only thing I liked about other coding sites instead of Scratch (e.g. Tynker) because they had onion skinning. I really hope they add it to Scratch

indigofunny

There are alot of reasons to not add onion skins.

For onion skins to work, they need users to understand and manipulate multiple frames at the same time. This'll cause a learning curve for people who are beginners (Scratch's target audience) or people who don't know what they are, making the animation process harder and longer.
Being able to store and manage multiple frames takes alot of file size. Since projects already have small size, this'd be really really bad.
It needs more processing power and also memory, so it'd be a lot slower and kill performance on some devices.
It can clutter up the editor, which'd distract and confuse people.
Feature creep: https://www.productplan.com/glossary/feature-creep/#:~:text=What%20is%20Feature%20Creep%3F,find%20the%20functionality%20they%20need.

I hope you understand

bobcat0701

indigofunny wrote:
(#451)
Feature creep: https://www.productplan.com/glossary/feature-creep/#:~:text=What%20is%20Feature%20Creep%3F,find%20the%20functionality%20they%20need.

I wouldn't consider this feature because animation is such a big part of Scratch…

Here's an expanded about me I guess:

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…

indigofunny

bobcat0701 wrote:
I wouldn't consider this feature because animation is such a big part of Scratch…

Still it'll confuse new people and will overwhelm them with all the options.

yadayadayadagoodbye

indigofunny wrote:
bobcat0701 wrote:
I wouldn't consider this feature because animation is such a big part of Scratch…
Still it'll confuse new people and will overwhelm them with all the options.

Not exactly, this option would be pretty easy to understand if they named it something that doesn't sound so much like a food.

Scratchers that I've cati-fied

indigofunny

yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
Not exactly, this option would be pretty easy to understand if they named it something that doesn't sound so much like a food.

But that's what it's called. Calling it something else would confuse people especially if they know it's actually called an onion skin.

yadayadayadagoodbye

indigofunny wrote:
yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
Not exactly, this option would be pretty easy to understand if they named it something that doesn't sound so much like a food.

But that's what it's called. Calling it something else would confuse people especially if they know it's actually called an onion skin.

It is also viable to add a description for it, just like the descriptions for the blocks in 2.0
And you could always just called it “show previous costume as overlay”, which is straightforward enough that it can be understood via common sense and a bit of expirementation atmost

Scratchers that I've cati-fied

indigofunny

yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
indigofunny wrote:
yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
Not exactly, this option would be pretty easy to understand if they named it something that doesn't sound so much like a food.

But that's what it's called. Calling it something else would confuse people especially if they know it's actually called an onion skin.
It is also viable to add a description for it, just like the descriptions for the blocks in 2.0
And you could always just called it “show previous costume as overlay”, which is straightforward enough that it can be understood via common sense and a bit of expirementation atmost

That's even longer!!! That'd confuse many kids.
Most kids don't know what overlay is so it would be very confusing.

The-Sushi-Cat

indigofunny wrote:
There are alot of reasons to not add onion skins.
For onion skins to work, they need users to understand and manipulate multiple frames at the same time. This'll cause a learning curve for people who are beginners (Scratch's target audience) or people who don't know what they are, making the animation process harder and longer.
Being able to store and manage multiple frames takes alot of file size. Since projects already have small size, this'd be really really bad.
It needs more processing power and also memory, so it'd be a lot slower and kill performance on some devices.
It can clutter up the editor, which'd distract and confuse people.
Feature creep: https://www.productplan.com/glossary/feature-creep/#:~:text=What%20is%20Feature%20Creep%3F,find%20the%20functionality%20they%20need.
I hope you understand

1. I'm an animator! Trust me, it's not too complicated. And it makes animating WORLDS easier! Currently, I have to copy my previous sprite, paste it into another costume, change the color, convert it to vector, trace it with vector lines with slight variation, remove the old costume, and convert it to bitmap. That sounds more complicated than say, hitting a button.
2. It's a simple overlay and opacity change
3. You can turn it off if it's really ruining your device, but my tablet can't handle a lot of things, but onion skin is definitely something it can
4. It's a very small add-on. As big as the other buttons. We're not changing the whole editor. It's one thing. Not many people will be confused, and it'll only take kids a few seconds to realize that it turns on an outline for the previous frame
5. This would be adding to the value! It helps people be more creative on the website! Besides, ST doesn't update too often and they aren't cluttering the site

An evil kumquat ate my first username lol

Call me Sushi!

They/He/It/She in order of preference

A little part of me dies inside when someone says, “He/She” instead of just using they-

Try to refrain from saying, ‘No support’. It comes off as extremely negative. “The forums are for criticism! Don't post it you don't want it!” Agreed. But I never said that you should agree with everyone. No suggestion will ever be perfect
What sounds more constructive?
“No support, people would spam with it”
“This would lead to a lot of spam, since people can't get away from it. Not to mention, it might upset a few people with the way it's implemented”

In #1, you didn't help OP at all. You said you didn't like it, and why. Nothing else. Not even what was causing the issue of spam
In #2, you pointed out the flaws and the root causes of them. Flaws shouldn't always get a suggestion absolutely ignored

And simply supporting doesn't always help either. It's not a voting system, it's improving your ideas. There's going to be cons, there's going to be flaws, and that's the point of the suggestions. No suggestion is ever 100% perfect in any way
Here are some things you can look out for:
-Are there any flaws/cons that haven't been addressed or fixed?
-Is this idea fully flushed out? Or are there some questions you can ask?
-Are there any flaws that you know how to fix or do you know how to flush something out a bit more?
-Is there anyone else who is confused and needs some clarification?

If you don't have to do any of these, then you can move on!

Is a suggestion unable to be added because it's just impossible? Point out why and have them decide what to do next
But still, try not to say ‘no support’

The-Sushi-Cat

indigofunny wrote:
yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
indigofunny wrote:
yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
Not exactly, this option would be pretty easy to understand if they named it something that doesn't sound so much like a food.

But that's what it's called. Calling it something else would confuse people especially if they know it's actually called an onion skin.
It is also viable to add a description for it, just like the descriptions for the blocks in 2.0
And you could always just called it “show previous costume as overlay”, which is straightforward enough that it can be understood via common sense and a bit of expirementation atmost

That's even longer!!! That'd confuse many kids.
Most kids don't know what overlay is so it would be very confusing.

Kids are clever and can be pretty smart! If a kid turns it on and sees an outline of their previous costume, they'd immediately understand what the button does! They may not entirely understand it's purpose yet, but I didn't understand what the “bitmap” button did, yet Scratch still has it on there and I figured it out pretty quickly!

And they don't need to know the definition of every word. I had no idea what vector, bitmap, variables, functions, or any of that stuff was or what it meant! I wasn't too confused. I could still navigate the site and create!

An evil kumquat ate my first username lol

Call me Sushi!

They/He/It/She in order of preference

A little part of me dies inside when someone says, “He/She” instead of just using they-

Try to refrain from saying, ‘No support’. It comes off as extremely negative. “The forums are for criticism! Don't post it you don't want it!” Agreed. But I never said that you should agree with everyone. No suggestion will ever be perfect
What sounds more constructive?
“No support, people would spam with it”
“This would lead to a lot of spam, since people can't get away from it. Not to mention, it might upset a few people with the way it's implemented”

In #1, you didn't help OP at all. You said you didn't like it, and why. Nothing else. Not even what was causing the issue of spam
In #2, you pointed out the flaws and the root causes of them. Flaws shouldn't always get a suggestion absolutely ignored

And simply supporting doesn't always help either. It's not a voting system, it's improving your ideas. There's going to be cons, there's going to be flaws, and that's the point of the suggestions. No suggestion is ever 100% perfect in any way
Here are some things you can look out for:
-Are there any flaws/cons that haven't been addressed or fixed?
-Is this idea fully flushed out? Or are there some questions you can ask?
-Are there any flaws that you know how to fix or do you know how to flush something out a bit more?
-Is there anyone else who is confused and needs some clarification?

If you don't have to do any of these, then you can move on!

Is a suggestion unable to be added because it's just impossible? Point out why and have them decide what to do next
But still, try not to say ‘no support’

mcsquaggle

indigofunny wrote:
yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
indigofunny wrote:
yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
Not exactly, this option would be pretty easy to understand if they named it something that doesn't sound so much like a food.

But that's what it's called. Calling it something else would confuse people especially if they know it's actually called an onion skin.
It is also viable to add a description for it, just like the descriptions for the blocks in 2.0
And you could always just called it “show previous costume as overlay”, which is straightforward enough that it can be understood via common sense and a bit of expirementation atmost

That's even longer!!! That'd confuse many kids.
Most kids don't know what overlay is so it would be very confusing.

ok so onionskins are very simple in scratch. click a button. pretty easy to understand. so that version would be added. not what i would have. a whole chart with a bunch of checkboxes and stuff.

highlight and down arrow to see all of it
this is joe: joe is protecc

and this is frank (A-156 or RD-156): frank likes signatures for breakfast, HE EATS

oh noes! your signature was eaten by frank! img]https://cdn2.scratch.mit.edu/get_image/project/881644940_100x80.png[/img copy this (add back the ['s) to have frank eat your signature!

(:>::#bb88f6) //jerry says hi

set [ v] to (:>::#bb88f6)//jerry block

:>::#bb88f6 hat
:>::#bb88f6
:>(:>::#bb88f6)::#bb88f6
:> [#aa77e5]::#bb88f6
:> (:>::#bb88f6 boolean){
:>::#bb88f6
:>::#bb88f6
:> ( :> v) (:>::#bb88a1 stack) @addInput ::#bb88f6
:> ::#bb88f6 cap
} :> (:>::#bb88f6) ::#bb88f6
:> [:> v] ::#bb88f6 cap
::#bb88f6 boolean

B̴̴̸͕͖͖͕̪͔̻͑͒̓͑͑̔̐̕͝E̵̵̴̠̺͔͎̫͖͖̝͑̽̓̀̓̚͘̚A̴̴̸͔̠̟͉͎̼͚̝̿͊̀̐͑͌̓͛͜͠N̵̸̵̦̻̺͇͉͍͓͚͕͊̐̒̒̾̀̐̿

indigofunny

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:
indigofunny wrote:
There are alot of reasons to not add onion skins.
For onion skins to work, they need users to understand and manipulate multiple frames at the same time. This'll cause a learning curve for people who are beginners (Scratch's target audience) or people who don't know what they are, making the animation process harder and longer.
Being able to store and manage multiple frames takes alot of file size. Since projects already have small size, this'd be really really bad.
It needs more processing power and also memory, so it'd be a lot slower and kill performance on some devices.
It can clutter up the editor, which'd distract and confuse people.
Feature creep: https://www.productplan.com/glossary/feature-creep/#:~:text=What%20is%20Feature%20Creep%3F,find%20the%20functionality%20they%20need.
I hope you understand
1. I'm an animator! Trust me, it's not too complicated. And it makes animating WORLDS easier! Currently, I have to copy my previous sprite, paste it into another costume, change the color, convert it to vector, trace it with vector lines with slight variation, remove the old costume, and convert it to bitmap. That sounds more complicated than say, hitting a button.
2. It's a simple overlay and opacity change
3. You can turn it off if it's really ruining your device, but my tablet can't handle a lot of things, but onion skin is definitely something it can
4. It's a very small add-on. As big as the other buttons. We're not changing the whole editor. It's one thing. Not many people will be confused, and it'll only take kids a few seconds to realize that it turns on an outline for the previous frame
5. This would be adding to the value! It helps people be more creative on the website! Besides, ST doesn't update too often and they aren't cluttering the site

I mean I trust you about you understanding the feature. But like, I don't know if little kids would.
I know what I'm talking about, it takes up space to store multiple.
Ok ok fair fair
The wiki said there was a really simple sound feature (I think called echo) that was really really easy but was removed anyway because it overwhelmed alot of kids–
I believe you but it would be too confusing.

The-Sushi-Cat wrote:
indigofunny wrote:
yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
indigofunny wrote:
yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
Not exactly, this option would be pretty easy to understand if they named it something that doesn't sound so much like a food.

But that's what it's called. Calling it something else would confuse people especially if they know it's actually called an onion skin.
It is also viable to add a description for it, just like the descriptions for the blocks in 2.0
And you could always just called it “show previous costume as overlay”, which is straightforward enough that it can be understood via common sense and a bit of expirementation atmost

That's even longer!!! That'd confuse many kids.
Most kids don't know what overlay is so it would be very confusing.

Kids are clever and can be pretty smart! If a kid turns it on and sees an outline of their previous costume, they'd immediately understand what the button does! They may not entirely understand it's purpose yet, but I didn't understand what the “bitmap” button did, yet Scratch still has it on there and I figured it out pretty quickly!

And they don't need to know the definition of every word. I had no idea what vector, bitmap, variables, functions, or any of that stuff was or what it meant! I wasn't too confused. I could still navigate the site and create!

I understand but I think onion skins are more complicated than bitmap and variables. (Maybe not functions but that's an obscure feature anyway.) When a kid goes on the editor, they'll see a costume and a ghost-like costume hovering behind it – they'll think it's part of the costume.

mcsquaggle wrote:
indigofunny wrote:
yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
indigofunny wrote:
yadayadayadagoodbye wrote:
Not exactly, this option would be pretty easy to understand if they named it something that doesn't sound so much like a food.

But that's what it's called. Calling it something else would confuse people especially if they know it's actually called an onion skin.
It is also viable to add a description for it, just like the descriptions for the blocks in 2.0
And you could always just called it “show previous costume as overlay”, which is straightforward enough that it can be understood via common sense and a bit of expirementation atmost

That's even longer!!! That'd confuse many kids.
Most kids don't know what overlay is so it would be very confusing.
ok so onionskins are very simple in scratch. click a button. pretty easy to understand. so that version would be added. not what i would have. a whole chart with a bunch of checkboxes and stuff.

Read what I told everyone else. It's very very complicated for beginners

Discuss Scratch