Yeah, I know, lots of you will disagree with me at this point, but let me make some valid arguments first. Please read this entire post to understand me.

1. It's where the most arguing/trolling/flaming occurs
It's hard to find a good topic where not one person shows negativity towards the topic. I've made plenty of innocent topics, yet most of the posts on them aren't that nice; I would report them if they were any more mean. According to the RaP Guidelines, these are the three most broken rules of the forums:

1. Keep discussions on topic. If a thread gets derailed, help get it back on track.

Topics are constantly swerving off-topic, and become difficult to return back on-topic once everyone gets involved. It worsens when one brings it back up after the “derailment” has ended.

2. Don’t post links to or have discussions about anything disrespectful or inappropriate for an all ages audience. We will remove or close all threads and posts related to these discussionso.

There are tons, TONS, of discussions that are not family-friendly; no matter how many say “Oh, but they're OK for mature kids”, there is no need to bring up topics about suggestive songs, comics, shows, etc. because Scratch is a learning community, NOT Facebook/Twitter/other major social network. Seriously, for the sake of small children, keep the discussions as friendly and safe as a daycare.

3. Don't spam. Make sure that your posts are making a useful contribution to the discussion. If you do not find a thread interesting - don't post in it.

Some people don't really care how disrespectful their posts may seem, just so long as they get the message out. This is where a lot of hating starts. I've even heard of the loophole where a topic may seem interesting to you even though you don't like it, which can generate arguments very easily. Even one time, a new topic I made about a childhood book series was trolled on, one user confident enough to post a mile-long hate speech that undermined the book with a heavily biased comparison to MLP, supported by 2 others. That deeply hurt my feelings and my childhood. And I don't want another repeat for anyone out there who cherishes their youth as much as I do.

Also, happening at the moment of this post, a troll is giving biased negative opinion on my tastes in music. This is unacceptable for me. All my life I've been given biased negativity on my happiness, and to continue this on is pushing my buttons too far. Seriously, I can't take any more prejudice or I might quit Scratch.

I'm not naming anyone, but some people have taken prejudice to the next level. They are deliberately burying some topics because they feel their topics are more important, and they do this by 1) comparing one's interests with theirs, usually saying theirs is better, and 2) bumping on topics that are already on the first page while discouraging others bumping on older topics.

2. The guidelines aren't read/acknowledged by everyone
Look at the views for the RaP Forum Guidelines. Less than 1000. That's counting all the views in total, so the number of individuals who viewed is far less than that. Does that make sense since the RaP has the most closed user-made topics of because of duplicates and un-fit topics? I think so. Just the small description “Discuss books, TV, movies, art, music, or videogames that inspire you.” doesn't specify what “inspire” could mean, so a lot of topics push the rules to the limit.

Take for example, Girls in Gaming. That topic drove a pretty rocky discussion about the seductive nature of female characters in video games, so it definitely wasn't family-friendly, yet it lasted 186 posts without any mod/admin intervening. If this kind of “freedom of speech” was okay for all of RaP, my-my the forums would be a very interesting place to converse. Was it inspiring? It was about video games, but it was not inspiring. There was no positive motive for the topic. Case in point, I wonder if anyone can get away with making these kinds of topics which drive very big discussions and little to no moderation.

3. The topics are getting more and more off-topic
Slowly but surely, I think the Miscellaneous forums are replacing the RaP forums. More and more off-topic discussions are started with less scrutiny from moderators. If the topic is EXTREMELY random or just bad, then it's obvious the topic doesn't belong, but most of the time, topics that don't fit seem to drive far better discussions than topics about “books, TV, movies, art, music, or videogames”, per se.

It's almost as if all of Scratch is in a silent protest. No one is bothering to report topics that are off-topic and encourage discussion on those topics. Their message is clear: bring back the Misc forums. Now does anyone remember why the Misc forums were shut down? Hmm? Ah yes, they were too out of control for normal moderation. If they behave the same as they did in the Misc forums, it would mean the inevitable shut down of all “outside interest” forums, so does this mean Scratchers can be trusted with the RaP forum? So far, yes. But as I pointed out, there's still plenty of bullying, flaming, trolling, etc. going on. Especially in my topics.



I understand if you feel strongly against this, but I'm suggesting this because I am very displeased by the attitude certain users in the RaP forum present. You could say “If you don't want their opinion, don't go there”, but it's too late. I've already posted so much in there, I enjoyed it, but a few rotten apples ruined the bunch for me. I'm not holding grudges against topics, but against certain users who don't think respect is important. I do use the report button regularly, but it's not enough to stop the prejudice.

Supporters for the shut down of RaP:

________________________________________________

If not to shut it down, what about some changes?
So if you think shutting down the forum is too much, how about these changes?

1. Suggested by EH7meow: Elect more moderators specially for the RaP forums. If we can make that forum any safer, it would greatly help to reduce prejudice. If the #2 below was implemented, each moderator could have its own category to moderate.
   Support points: 2
   
   
2. ALL discussions need to be family-friendly (Teen and under for games, PG-13 and under for movies/TV), including ones that are for only mature Scratchers to discuss. That means that topics must be as okay to discuss as anything you'd say to your parents and young siblings. There's too much ambiguity with allowing users to discuss on some, eh, mature topics. Note: This needs to be enforced. Mods and admins are not paying enough attention and there needs to be a better defined rule for not starting inappropriate discussions.
   Support points: 1
   
   
3. Group topics together based on the categories listed in the description. Have one section for Music and another for TV, and another for Videogames and so on; organize the forums. It'd be a lot better to navigate 5 pages per category than 25 pages of random topics all jumbled together. It may even be better to moderate this time, because a category is distinguished easily. Any other topic that doesn't fit any of the categories can be closed or moved to an “other” forum, which will pretty much be like a mini Misc forum.
   Support points: 3
   
   
4. Merge all related topics to the biggest one. So long as a main discussion doesn't branch off to related yet independent discussions, duplicate topics would be lessened and discussions would be more successful. Probably not the best idea, but just wondering. Note: This would merge, say, Pokémon Showdown with the main Pokémon topic, but not any duplicate topics.
   Support points: 1
   
   
5. Clean up the forums monthly. Seriously, a lot of topics don't drive good discussions after the first week, and end up sinking to the bottom of the forums never to be revived again. These topics pile up quite rapidly, and I believe it would help make space for new topics if those were deleted (or moved to a forum of closed topics, as suggested by EH7meow) after a month or so of inactivity. But wait, what if someone wanted to post on one? Simple: just make a new topic. Since the original couldn't drive a good discussion from before, might as well start anew. If they want their topic to stay alive, keep it active by bumping. This way, at least every topic will get some attention, no matter how narrow or broad it may seem.
   Support points: 3
   

Again, I understand if you don't support any of this. If you have a better suggestion, feel free to share it and I may add it to the list of possible changes. Any support will be greatly appreciated. Thank you very much for reading this.

I completely agree with you- tbh, I never saw the point of the RaP forums, if they're for inspiration, surely that's what Project Ideas is for?

I wouldn't be upset if they shut down, but then again, I don't exactly use them as much as others. They're probably fifth in the list of forums I post on most.

As for your suggestions at the end:
1. I think that while it's a good thing to say, there would be some degree of ambiguity in this. Would this block threads such as the Blurred Lines thread? I don't really mind talking about that with my parents. Also, in the Favorite YouTubers thread, would you be allowed to mention names of channels who swear and talk about mature subjects all the time?

2. I guess this would be a nice feature. Personally, I'm only interested in tv and music out of the subjects listed so it would be useful to filter out the ones I find uninteresting. I also think that if there wasn't an “other” section. that would discourage irrelevant topics such as “what are you scared of”. +1.

3. I think it would be better to just report and close duplicate topics.

4. They could have some sort of cleanup system like they did in the old TBG forums. +1.

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

1. I think that while it's a good thing to say, there would be some degree of ambiguity in this. Would this block threads such as the Blurred Lines thread? I don't really mind talking about that with my parents. Also, in the Favorite YouTubers thread, would you be allowed to mention names of channels who swear and talk about mature subjects all the time?

So long as a discussion keeps clear of mentioning the swearing then I guess it would be okay to keep, but Blurred Lines is a little risky. The song is quite explicit and even though the first post says to find the “clean” version, what are the odds someone might stumble upon the uncensored one out of curiosity? I mean, sure the guy's pitch is so high you can't make out the lyrics the first time on the radio, but eventually some one will understand it. Just thinking, why hasn't anyone made a Gangnam Style topic? That wasn't nearly as explicit, and it was catchy too. But anyways, if Scratchers don't mind talking about it with their parents, the topic may stay open.
As for Favorite YouTubers, I guess it doesn't matter at this point because everyone on there swears at least once. I'm a fan of PewDiePie, and he's swears a lot, yet I don't mind, I just keep the volume down. I even saw one “legit” comment that said the dude was gonna sue PDP because of his explicit language “on a children's channel”, which is the most facepalm-worthy moment on YouTube ever. But wait, what category would this fall under? Not books, not videogames, not art, not music, and not really TV either. So if my second suggestion was implemented, Favorite YouTubers would most likely be shut down. Not that it breaks the rules, but that it doesn't fit any category.

I think that the Scratch forums need more moderators: the current ones do an amazing job but there aren't enough who are active any more. If we got some more it'd be easier to implement some of your suggestions. My responses:

Shut it down: I think R&P is a very interesting forum to read and it's nice to see other Scratchers' opinions. While it might not be related to Scratch I think so much of the forums are that it is OK to have 1 or 2 which aren't. With some of your further suggestions I think it could also become a better place.

1:I think this is sort of in the rules already, it is just not obeyed.

2. Don’t post links to or have discussions about anything disrespectful or inappropriate for an all ages audience. We will remove or close all threads and posts related to these discussionso.

2: Yeah, this sounds like a neat idea. It would involve more work for Mods because of the need to move topics and the fact that all the current threads would have to be categorised.

3: They already close topics which are similar (e.g. a pokemon topic about a specific version of pokemon gets closed). Merging wouldn't make much difference because there are so few posts on the duplicate topic but I agree that there's no harm in merging.

4: Apparently, when Misc was around, topics which hadn't been active for 2 weeks got closed automatically which didn't involve any work for mods. I think they should bring this back.

My suggestions: When a topic is closed it should be moved to a forum section with lots of other topics so that you wouldn't have them hanging around. I also think topics should be automatically closed after two weeks with no posts..

Thoughts?

Yeah, they can be kind of messy. I usually just go on questions, help with scripts, and bugs and glitches. They're my 3 favorite. There is a lot of negativity there. Support! Something needs to be done.

EH7meow wrote:

I think that the Scratch forums need more moderators: the current ones do an amazing job but there aren't enough who are active any more. If we got some more it'd be easier to implement some of your suggestions.

Okay, I'll add that to the suggestions.

1:I think this is sort of in the rules already, it is just not obeyed.

2. Don’t post links to or have discussions about anything disrespectful or inappropriate for an all ages audience. We will remove or close all threads and posts related to these discussions.

Yeah, it needs to be enforced. All bark and no bite.

3: They already close topics which are similar (e.g. a pokemon topic about a specific version of pokemon gets closed). Merging wouldn't make much difference because there are so few posts on the duplicate topic but I agree that there's no harm in merging.

Do they really? I've seen quite a few topics pass through that should have been merged with the main topic, but aren't.

My suggestions: When a topic is closed it should be moved to a forum section with lots of other topics so that you wouldn't have them hanging around.

That's a good idea. I'll add it too.

Pretty long speech you got there…

turkey3 wrote:

Yeah, they can be kind of messy. I usually just go on questions, help with scripts, and bugs and glitches. They're my 3 favorite. There is a lot of negativity there. Support! Something needs to be done.

Good, but which do you support? Shut down? Changes? And if so, list the ones you support?

I support changes, I mean, I like how I can explore what other people like and what they are doing.

Support:
1.
3.
5.

These long explanations aren't going to atttract that many people, elaboration is good, though.

I think that:

-movies discussed have to be PG13 and under
-video games Teen and under
-no topics about war
-the

Edit: did I seriously just put “the”

Support

turkey3 wrote:

I think that:

-movies discussed have to be PG13 and under
-video games Teen and under
-no topics about war
-the

Edit: did I seriously just put “the”

Star Wars is about a war.

How about this: threads are dealt with in the same way as projects, if moderators deem one inappropriate, it is either taken down, or marked as NFE.
Girls in Gaming: I'm sorry if you didn't like it. I have to agree, it's hard for me to make a point sometimes. If you looked carefully, though, you might have noticed we WERE talking about positive female characters, too.
Guidelines: It could be made a requirement to read that thread before posting in the RaP forum.
Misc. forum: I have no idea what this is. I started using the forum quite recently.
Overall, you have good ideas, but shutting down the forum itself isn't one of them.

blueservine wrote:

How about this: threads are dealt with in the same way as projects, if moderators deem one inappropriate, it is either taken down, or marked as NFE.

Uh, okay, but what if a thread is marked NFE? Would it be hidden from the front page? Or sent to a forum for teens and up?

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

Yeah, I know, lots of you will disagree with me at this point, but let me make some valid arguments first. Please read this entire post to understand me.

1. It's where the most arguing/trolling/flaming occurs

What's wrong with arguing? There's a very limited amount of discussion that can be had if arguing is considered “bad”.

It's hard to find a good topic where not one person shows negativity towards the topic. I've made plenty of innocent topics, yet most of the posts on them aren't that nice; I would report them if they were any more mean. According to the RaP Guidelines, these are the three most broken rules of the forums:

1. Keep discussions on topic. If a thread gets derailed, help get it back on track.

Topics are constantly swerving off-topic, and become difficult to return back on-topic once everyone gets involved. It worsens when one brings it back up after the “derailment” has ended.

2. Don’t post links to or have discussions about anything disrespectful or inappropriate for an all ages audience. We will remove or close all threads and posts related to these discussionso.

There are tons, TONS, of discussions that are not family-friendly; no matter how many say “Oh, but they're OK for mature kids”, there is no need to bring up topics about suggestive songs, comics, shows, etc. because Scratch is a learning community, NOT Facebook/Twitter/other major social network. Seriously, for the sake of small children, keep the discussions as friendly and safe as a daycare.

I don't agree with you. Pretty much everything you're reading or playing should be able to be discussed as long as the parts that aren't suitable for all ages aren't explicitly discussed or linked to. An example: There's a topic on the Matrix, which was rated R for violence, language, etc. Users could discuss which of the movies they liked the best, their favorite parts of the movies, the characters. The movie itself is rated R, but the conversation would be PG.

3. Don't spam. Make sure that your posts are making a useful contribution to the discussion. If you do not find a thread interesting - don't post in it.

Some people don't really care how disrespectful their posts may seem, just so long as they get the message out. This is where a lot of hating starts. I've even heard of the loophole where a topic may seem interesting to you even though you don't like it, which can generate arguments very easily. Even one time, a new topic I made about a childhood book series was trolled on, one user confident enough to post a mile-long hate speech that undermined the book with a heavily biased comparison to MLP, supported by 2 others. That deeply hurt my feelings and my childhood. And I don't want another repeat for anyone out there who cherishes their youth as much as I do.

How does your childhood get hurt? What does that even mean?

Also, happening at the moment of this post, a troll is giving biased negative opinion on my tastes in music. This is unacceptable for me. All my life I've been given biased negativity on my happiness, and to continue this on is pushing my buttons too far. Seriously, I can't take any more prejudice or I might quit Scratch.

There are some good life lessons that can be learned here. If somebody doesn't like the same thing as you, it doesn't mean that they are “trolling” you. Also you're not being prejudiced -___-

I'm not naming anyone, but some people have taken prejudice to the next level. They are deliberately burying some topics because they feel their topics are more important, and they do this by 1) comparing one's interests with theirs, usually saying theirs is better, and 2) bumping on topics that are already on the first page while discouraging others bumping on older topics.

2. The guidelines aren't read/acknowledged by everyone
Look at the views for the RaP Forum Guidelines. Less than 1000. That's counting all the views in total, so the number of individuals who viewed is far less than that. Does that make sense since the RaP has the most closed user-made topics of because of duplicates and un-fit topics? I think so. Just the small description “Discuss books, TV, movies, art, music, or videogames that inspire you.” doesn't specify what “inspire” could mean, so a lot of topics push the rules to the limit.

Take for example, Girls in Gaming. That topic drove a pretty rocky discussion about the seductive nature of female characters in video games, so it definitely wasn't family-friendly, yet it lasted 186 posts without any mod/admin intervening. If this kind of “freedom of speech” was okay for all of RaP, my-my the forums would be a very interesting place to converse. Was it inspiring? It was about video games, but it was not inspiring. There was no positive motive for the topic. Case in point, I wonder if anyone can get away with making these kinds of topics which drive very big discussions and little to no moderation.

3. The topics are getting more and more off-topic
Slowly but surely, I think the Miscellaneous forums are replacing the RaP forums.

What the f&&& are you even talking about here. Misc isn't coming back.

More and more off-topic discussions are started with less scrutiny from moderators. If the topic is EXTREMELY random or just bad, then it's obvious the topic doesn't belong, but most of the time, topics that don't fit seem to drive far better discussions than topics about “books, TV, movies, art, music, or videogames”, per se.

It's almost as if all of Scratch is in a silent protest. No one is bothering to report topics that are off-topic and encourage discussion on those topics. Their message is clear: bring back the Misc forums. Now does anyone remember why the Misc forums were shut down? Hmm? Ah yes, they were too out of control for normal moderation. If they behave the same as they did in the Misc forums, it would mean the inevitable shut down of all “outside interest” forums, so does this mean Scratchers can be trusted with the RaP forum? So far, yes. But as I pointed out, there's still plenty of bullying, flaming, trolling, etc. going on. Especially in my topics.

You've officially lost me, dude.

In conclusion, I don't think that there is anything wrong with how the forums are right now. I have noticed barely ANY of your reasons, so yeah. I was going to reply to a lot more of what you said, but I was afraid of making you more upset and prejudged.

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

blueservine wrote:

How about this: threads are dealt with in the same way as projects, if moderators deem one inappropriate, it is either taken down, or marked as NFE.

Uh, okay, but what if a thread is marked NFE? Would it be hidden from the front page? Or sent to a forum for teens and up?

Possibly a notice at the top of the thread. I'm not quite sure.

puppetadventurer wrote:

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

3. The topics are getting more and more off-topic
Slowly but surely, I think the Miscellaneous forums are replacing the RaP forums.

What the f&&& are you even talking about here. Misc isn't coming back.

It can't be good when the supporter says this.

You're crazy. :-P

If they shut it down, a lot of people would be mad. And as a reply to PhirripSyrrip, Project Ideas is the least used forum ever. And plus, it's in the Interests Beyond Scratch subforum. It has nothing to do with Scratch, just your life. Plus, I have no idea what I'd do without the Pokémon topic. I wouldn't have anywhere to get advice or help from other people.

About the trolling, I'm sorry about that. Just know that everyone has their own opinions and they're just expressing theirs in a more assertive way. And some people's opinions just don't matter. My topics seem fine other than the fact that hardly anyone ever posts on them. And you can just not go on there…

I support the categorizing, because that will encourage more on-topic posting. Although the reason people haven't been reporting off-topic posts is that they're more interesting than on-topic.

As for suggestion number 2, it seems good at first. But then there's harmless movies like the Matrix that are rated R. I think it's fine as it is.

TL;DR: I support #4.

puppetadventurer wrote:

I don't agree with you. Pretty much everything you're reading or playing should be able to be discussed as long as the parts that aren't suitable for all ages aren't explicitly discussed or linked to. An example: There's a topic on the Matrix, which was rated R for violence, language, etc. Users could discuss which of the movies they liked the best, their favorite parts of the movies, the characters. The movie itself is rated R, but the conversation would be PG.

I may be overreacting, but I have a valid point when I say discussing explicit-themed media on a website made for learning programming isn't okay, in my opinion.

How does your childhood get hurt? What does that even mean?

Figure of speech. I'm saying my youth is gone and whatever I have left of it gets stomped down by trolls. It's tough to live a life with no friends IRL.

There are some good life lessons that can be learned here. If somebody doesn't like the same thing as you, it doesn't mean that they are “trolling” you. Also you're not being prejudiced -___-

What lessons are to be learned when blatant hatred is directed to your interests? They should be the ones learning these life lessons not to prejudice others because they don't have the same interests as me.

What the f&&& are you even talking about here. Misc isn't coming back.

Oh really? All this time you haven't noticed the increase in off-topic discussions?

In conclusion, I don't think that there is anything wrong with how the forums are right now. I have noticed barely ANY of your reasons, so yeah. I was going to reply to a lot more of what you said, but I was afraid of making you more upset and prejudged.

You don't THINK there's anything wrong, yet. It takes a trained mind to take notice of subtle changes to the atmosphere of the media. Just wait.