Discuss Scratch
- Discussion Forums
- » Suggestions
- » Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
- Flipped_
- Scratcher
500+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
Support! This would be really useful as compared to grouping all drawings as one!
One thing -
One thing -
I don't think this is really necessary. It wouldn't be that useful - there are easy workarounds to it, such as using a list to store the sprites tied to a canvas.show all sprites on [canvas1 v] :: pen //would show all sprites that are tied to the selected canvas
hide all sprites on [canvas1 v] :: pen //would hide all sprites that are tied to the selected canvas
☄️ Hey! I'm Flipped_. ☄️
Here, you can sit down in that chair over there. No no, that one. The other
one is reserved for my pet coelacanth.
I guess we wait now. Feel free to drink some orange juice
in the meantime.
———————————————
Here, you can sit down in that chair over there. No no, that one. The other
one is reserved for my pet coelacanth.
I guess we wait now. Feel free to drink some orange juice
in the meantime.
———————————————
- justsomenerds
- Scratcher
31 posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
I haven't used the forums in a while and posted the same thing twice, and I have no idea how to delete this
Last edited by justsomenerds (March 5, 2019 04:33:33)
when green flag clicked
say [RUN!!!!!]
set [realization] to [1]
say [false alarm! it's just a kumquat! you're all safe!]
say [i saved you guys from this deadly kumquat!]
- justsomenerds
- Scratcher
31 posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
My apologies if there are any rules against commenting on old posts - I looked and couldn't find any, and I don't want to create a duplicate topic, which I know is against the rules. see bottom of post
I also find that having multiple layers of pen could be quite useful, and add features that can't be (easily) worked around otherwise. However, I disagree with this particular implementation, for several reasons:
1 - this is a fairly minor complaint, but I feel that “layers” would suit this effect more than “canvases”
2 - certain features appear to make things too easy; one could work around quite a few of these blocks without too much difficulty, if given a few basic ones.
examples:
both of the following blocks
these two
this one
the following I feel are all just confusing and either unintuitive, or reproducible without even using pen
3:
It is my own opinion that these canvases should have a fixed position and size, and should be writable by any sprite.
4: the “is pen down” operator is fairly redundant, as one can set a variable to true when they set the pen to be down, and false when they pick the pen back up.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So then, if I were to make this particular extension, I would have the following blocks added from the original post:
as well as, if at all possible, some implementation of an eraser. Because we are now working with layers and, therefore, transparency, simply drawing white will no longer work to erase, as there would now be a white streak on that portion of the canvas. I suggest something that uses basically the same script as the pre-existing pen blocks (size and maybe transparency) and add the following two blocks in:
these would function exactly the same as the pen down and pen up blocks, but, instead of leaving a trail of a certain color, they would replace all the pixels with either A: blank, fully transparent pixels, or B: if transparency is given to the eraser, slightly more transparent versions of the pixels in its path.
Layers would be static, and layered so that the lower numbers get rendered closer to the front; layer 5 would be in the back, then 4, then 3, then 2, then 1, then sprites, then speech bubbles/variables, etc, etc.
Users can specify which layer to draw to before they put the pen down, and anything drawn would apply to that layer until the layer is changed. Sprites do not have to be bound to specific layers.
Old projects that don't specify layers would simply use layer 1.
projects default to only using a single layer, with the option to “add a new layer” appearing in the drop-down when selecting a layer to draw to.
To save on lag if the simple act of having pen layers is too much for certain devices, a cap could be put on the maximum number of layers (4 or more seems workable for most games (background, foreground, effect (think pokemon caves where you need to use flash), and UI))
These suggestions make the additions both more intuitive to work with (especially for people who have worked with any image editors or decent art programs), less laggy (copying canvases is not going to be the fastest operation scratch can do), and easier to implement (as there are just less features in general)
edit: ok so It's been a /reeeally/ long time since I used the forums, and I didn't see that you can switch pages, and I'm not the only one who posted this year. That's nice to know
I also find that having multiple layers of pen could be quite useful, and add features that can't be (easily) worked around otherwise. However, I disagree with this particular implementation, for several reasons:
1 - this is a fairly minor complaint, but I feel that “layers” would suit this effect more than “canvases”
2 - certain features appear to make things too easy; one could work around quite a few of these blocks without too much difficulty, if given a few basic ones.
examples:
both of the following blocks
show canvas [canvas1 v] ::pencan be worked around by either using the clear block (for hiding) or by simply re-drawing its contents (showing)
hide canvas [canvas1 v] ::pen
these two
bring [canvas1 v] to front ::penare highly unnecessary, as you can just re-order the contents you wish to draw to the proper layers; Also, reordering numbered canvases would get confusing, especially when canvas 1 ends up between 2 and 3
move [canvas1 v] to layer (1 v) ::pen
this one
copy pen from [canvas1 v] to [canvas2 v] ::penis likely to cause a LOT of lag, and is, again, unnecessary
the following I feel are all just confusing and either unintuitive, or reproducible without even using pen
show all sprites on [canvas1 v] ::pen
hide all sprites on [canvas1 v] ::pen
apply effect [pixelate v] to [canvas1 v] ::pen
clear effects from [canvas1 v] ::pen
3:
It is my own opinion that these canvases should have a fixed position and size, and should be writable by any sprite.
4: the “is pen down” operator is fairly redundant, as one can set a variable to true when they set the pen to be down, and false when they pick the pen back up.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So then, if I were to make this particular extension, I would have the following blocks added from the original post:
switch to canvas: [canvas1 v] ::pen
clear [canvas1 v] ::pen
as well as, if at all possible, some implementation of an eraser. Because we are now working with layers and, therefore, transparency, simply drawing white will no longer work to erase, as there would now be a white streak on that portion of the canvas. I suggest something that uses basically the same script as the pre-existing pen blocks (size and maybe transparency) and add the following two blocks in:
eraser down ::pen
eraser up ::pen
these would function exactly the same as the pen down and pen up blocks, but, instead of leaving a trail of a certain color, they would replace all the pixels with either A: blank, fully transparent pixels, or B: if transparency is given to the eraser, slightly more transparent versions of the pixels in its path.
Layers would be static, and layered so that the lower numbers get rendered closer to the front; layer 5 would be in the back, then 4, then 3, then 2, then 1, then sprites, then speech bubbles/variables, etc, etc.
Users can specify which layer to draw to before they put the pen down, and anything drawn would apply to that layer until the layer is changed. Sprites do not have to be bound to specific layers.
Old projects that don't specify layers would simply use layer 1.
projects default to only using a single layer, with the option to “add a new layer” appearing in the drop-down when selecting a layer to draw to.
To save on lag if the simple act of having pen layers is too much for certain devices, a cap could be put on the maximum number of layers (4 or more seems workable for most games (background, foreground, effect (think pokemon caves where you need to use flash), and UI))
These suggestions make the additions both more intuitive to work with (especially for people who have worked with any image editors or decent art programs), less laggy (copying canvases is not going to be the fastest operation scratch can do), and easier to implement (as there are just less features in general)
edit: ok so It's been a /reeeally/ long time since I used the forums, and I didn't see that you can switch pages, and I'm not the only one who posted this year. That's nice to know
Last edited by justsomenerds (March 5, 2019 04:37:47)
when green flag clicked
say [RUN!!!!!]
set [realization] to [1]
say [false alarm! it's just a kumquat! you're all safe!]
say [i saved you guys from this deadly kumquat!]
- Scratch_Foxy_Rogues
- Scratcher
100+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
With Pen being an extension now, would it make sense to have this as some kind of pen-extension-extension?
I think having multiple pen layers is a good idea, even if the particular implementation described has a few issues (as argued above). I like the idea of there being some slightly more advanced extensions like this for users who want to do even more with Scratch.
I think having multiple pen layers is a good idea, even if the particular implementation described has a few issues (as argued above). I like the idea of there being some slightly more advanced extensions like this for users who want to do even more with Scratch.
- Monniasza_spzoo
- Scratcher
100+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
Support! It will allow more complex graphics.
- scratchDefender
- Scratcher
3 posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
Support. Although, how Scratch VM interacts with the canvas is beyond me and I'm wondering whether two canvases would be possible. It's certainly possible to have multiple canvases, but would the Scratch GUI be able to place two canvases? I'll do some studying on the pen blocks.
- Nambaseking01
- Scratcher
1000+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
I do not really understand this suggestion.
Could someone please elaborate?
Could someone please elaborate?
Hey there! My name is Nammy. I'm a male Forum Helper and Scratch Wiki Editor.
Profile | Test Account | Talk with me here! | Griffpatch is quitting Scratch?!
Profile | Test Account | Talk with me here! | Griffpatch is quitting Scratch?!
- SuperKamekArea
- Scratcher
500+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
I think that since canvases are any size, they need 0 0 as top left
NOTE: I have left scratch, see my featured project for more info
bump
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
██░▄▄░██▄██░▄▀▄░█░▄▀▄░█░▄▄███░▄▄▀█░▄▄▀████▄██░▄▄▀█▄░▄█░▄▄█░▄▄▀█░▄▄▀█░▄▄█▄░▄
██░█▀▀██░▄█░█▄█░█░█▄█░█░▄▄███░▀▀░█░██░████░▄█░██░██░██░▄▄█░▀▀▄█░██░█░▄▄██░█
██░▀▀▄█▄▄▄█▄███▄█▄███▄█▄▄▄███▄██▄█▄██▄███▄▄▄█▄██▄██▄██▄▄▄█▄█▄▄█▄██▄█▄▄▄██▄█
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
- NitroCipher
- Scratcher
500+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
I do not really understand this suggestion.
Could someone please elaborate?
Hi King Nammy, what part do you need help with?
Last edited by NitroCipher (Aug. 21, 2019 21:20:49)
I hope my post helped you in some way! Post count: 500+
Current project: [s3Blocks: scratchblocks rewritten for Scratch 3.0] ::#4b4a60 //https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/290031/ Basically done!This is my signature identifier “aWFtbml0cm9jaXBoZXI=”
- Nambaseking01
- Scratcher
1000+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
-snip-
Hi King, what part do you need help with?
So what are the things we put into this canvas and how do we decorate them?
By the way, please call me Nammy — that is my online nickname.
Hey there! My name is Nammy. I'm a male Forum Helper and Scratch Wiki Editor.
Profile | Test Account | Talk with me here! | Griffpatch is quitting Scratch?!
Profile | Test Account | Talk with me here! | Griffpatch is quitting Scratch?!
- NitroCipher
- Scratcher
500+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
Hi King, what part do you need help with?
So what are the things we put into this canvas and how do we decorate them?
By the way, please call me Nammy — that is my online nickname.
You draw on the canvases in the same way you would the pen tool. This idea is just an expansion upon that general idea.
I hope my post helped you in some way! Post count: 500+
Current project: [s3Blocks: scratchblocks rewritten for Scratch 3.0] ::#4b4a60 //https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/290031/ Basically done!This is my signature identifier “aWFtbml0cm9jaXBoZXI=”
- WaterComesBack
- Scratcher
100+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
bump
Bouncy
Underscores
Making
Pizza
Bouncy
Underscores
Making
Pizza
BA BUM BUM B U M
BA BUM BUM B U M
BA BUM BUM B U M
BA BUM BUM B U M
okay enough, welcome to my siggy. (press down+shift while highlighting a part of my signature to see the rest of my sig)
E
whoops sorry for the accidental e
h
h
h
stop viewing this
move (999999999) steps
move (999999) steps
ende
- NitroCipher
- Scratcher
500+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
Update bump!
I hope my post helped you in some way! Post count: 500+
Current project: [s3Blocks: scratchblocks rewritten for Scratch 3.0] ::#4b4a60 //https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/290031/ Basically done!This is my signature identifier “aWFtbml0cm9jaXBoZXI=”
- BGMead
- Scratcher
1000+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
Support! I see many uses in this!
Heyo! I am Jade (she/her) and I used to be very active on the scratch discussion forums back in 2017. I've since left scratch to pursue an interest in game development, graphics and engine programming, and college.
- s_federici
- Scratcher
500+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
Sorry for being so late in this interesting discussion.
As I understand it, the final goals of this extension are:
Would the Snap ability of creating costumes from pen trails do the job? You can see it at https://snap.berkeley.edu/snap/snap.html#present:Username=s_federici&ProjectName=creating%20costumes%20(short). Would there be something still missing?
As I understand it, the final goals of this extension are:
- easily create pen based games without the need for redrawing all objects for each frame
- use the show/hide all ability to make ‘scenes’ upon which many sprites operate.
Would the Snap ability of creating costumes from pen trails do the job? You can see it at https://snap.berkeley.edu/snap/snap.html#present:Username=s_federici&ProjectName=creating%20costumes%20(short). Would there be something still missing?
- Endless-Ocean
- Scratcher
100+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
I support this, it would honestly make my life a lot easier.
when I receive [Endless-Ocean Supports This]
add [Endless-Ocean] to [Support List]
Hello, I am a coder who likes to experiment and create things on Scratch! I don't release projects that much lately because I have many big projects I'm working on. If you like you can come check out my released projects by clicking my profile picture at the top left of this post. I don't look to get famous on Scratch, but it feels good when people see my projects. Well, see you next post!
-@Endless-Ocean
wait until <(the world is flat?) = [true]>And the ocean is endless, if you ask me. Ctrl+shift+down or else you'll miss out
Welcome to the hidden world of Endless-Ocean's signature!
Here you can just… um… whatever idk
Nice down here isn't it?
- WaterComesBack
- Scratcher
100+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
I support this, it would honestly make my life a lot easier. Please don't necropost. The latest reply was from more than a year ago, so I don't think it would have been a good idea to necropost.when I receive [Endless-Ocean Supports This]
add [Endless-Ocean] to [Support List]
Please check the latest post's date to see if you should necropost/bump it or not.
EDIT: Not a necropost, since this contributes to the topic. Sorry!
Last edited by WaterComesBack (July 30, 2020 02:09:03)
BA BUM BUM B U M
BA BUM BUM B U M
BA BUM BUM B U M
BA BUM BUM B U M
okay enough, welcome to my siggy. (press down+shift while highlighting a part of my signature to see the rest of my sig)
E
whoops sorry for the accidental e
h
h
h
stop viewing this
move (999999999) steps
move (999999) steps
ende
- Jeffalo
- Scratcher
1000+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
full support assuming this is antother extenstion that way no one can say it's too complex for scratch
disclaimer: sometimes my posts are pretty critical of the scratch team (especially my older ones), but i really do scratch & scratch team. jvvg made a short essay thing about the scratch team, which is a pretty good read, if you want a different perspective for the scratch team's actions.
- TopicBumper
- New to Scratch
100+ posts
Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)
Bump.
I will bet that there are a lot of people that would want this!
I will bet that there are a lot of people that would want this!
- Discussion Forums
- » Suggestions
- » Independent Pen Canvases (updated 1st September, 2019)