Scratch 3.0 is going in the wrong direction

TailsDoll506

EVERYONE
I HAVE A SOLUTION
JUST
JUST GO BACK TO SCRATCH 0.2
IT WAS PERFECT

(Don’t take this seriously please)

oh boy i sure do love earthboudn

Mr_PenguinAlex

Support, I practically go blind when I open the editor.

rooob

__init__ wrote:
I've seen people complaining about the performance of Scratch since I first joined the site. I haven't seen it getting any better. It's actually mostly gotten worse. I feel like this is a huge problem - you can't expect Scratchers to have top-notch computer hardware in order to program. Scratch is aimed at kids, many of whom will have computers with lower-end hardware. Which is why I find it pretty unreasonable that my CPU fan spins up like it's under a stress test when I open the Scratch 3.0 preview.

The new Scratch 3.0 was made because Adobe Flash is going obsolete in 2020, but until then, I think it should be optional. Also, my PC heats up when I open Scratch 3.0.

__init__ wrote:
Create a lightweight alternative desktop app. This could totally be a community project - I'm not sure if Whiskers is still a thing, but that was really cool. Anyone want to try their hand at this?

You can now download the Scratch 1.4, 2.0, and 3.0 editors, and “Scratch Desktop” (3.0 offline editor) does reduce the probability of my PC turning into flames (it is 5 years old)

__init__ wrote:
Make the Scratch 2.0 editor still available in case anyone wants to keep using it. Will the S2 and S3 file formats be compatible?

The scratch 2.0 editor is still available at www.scratchx.org until Scratch removes it or gives it the new UI, so use it while you can! No, sb3 is not compatible with this, as it is still the primitive scratch 2.0 editor.

Hope this helped!

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ResExsention

Now, I will have to give no support for this one. With the evolution of technology, what the OP is suggesting is that we go backwards, not forwards. This will just leave people using old technology that at some point won't be compatible with the latest tech. I know that most people are kids, so they might not have that high end devices, however as a programmer in text languages I am really going to have to leave Scratch if we go backwards this way. I rejoined Scratch so I could break away from text-based programming for a bit and I would really like to keep the high speed technology of React and JS, otherwise I really don't think I will be staying with this engine for long.

Please don't shoot me down (“then leave Scratch if you don't want to be here”), I am just posing an opinion.

Infrequently active.

It feels weird to see how far we've come. I hope you're well, wherever you are!

space_elephant

rooob wrote:
__init__ wrote:
Create a lightweight alternative desktop app. This could totally be a community project - I'm not sure if Whiskers is still a thing, but that was really cool. Anyone want to try their hand at this?
You can now download the Scratch 1.4, 2.0, and 3.0 editors, and “Scratch Desktop” (3.0 offline editor) does reduce the probability of my PC turning into flames (it is 5 years old)

I can, but it complains that my wine doesn't have the right DLLs. What's a DLL anyway?
Also scratch 1.4 works fine for me, but it doesn't have lists/

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[url=redlink.com][color=red][u]red link[/u][/color][/url]

badatprogrammingibe

infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
TailsDoll506 wrote:
j12006 wrote:
Maybe we can have a non mit website to have an archive of scratch 2.0 web editor ?
Good idea, but that's assuming someone copied the HTML before 3.0 happened.
I have, and I'm sure countless others have as well.
Also, the HTML itself probably isn't that important; you could probably easily hack together the HTML required for the scratch 2.0 swf to run.
There are also a few backups of the scratch 2.0 web editor, for example: https://scratchx.org/#scratch, and also https://s2online.github.io/.
The big issue with doing this is the significant security risk that will be an issue after Flash is discontinued.
Meh, I doubt there will be any massive security issues just because a program isn't regularly updated.
I have never updated my Windows 7 PC ever since I installed the SP1 image, and I have had no security problems. I suspect it will be the same with Adobe Flash.
You should install updates…

Nah, I don't trust Microsoft.
Also, if it's not broken, why should I try to fix it?

infinitytec

badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
TailsDoll506 wrote:
j12006 wrote:
Maybe we can have a non mit website to have an archive of scratch 2.0 web editor ?
Good idea, but that's assuming someone copied the HTML before 3.0 happened.
I have, and I'm sure countless others have as well.
Also, the HTML itself probably isn't that important; you could probably easily hack together the HTML required for the scratch 2.0 swf to run.
There are also a few backups of the scratch 2.0 web editor, for example: https://scratchx.org/#scratch, and also https://s2online.github.io/.
The big issue with doing this is the significant security risk that will be an issue after Flash is discontinued.
Meh, I doubt there will be any massive security issues just because a program isn't regularly updated.
I have never updated my Windows 7 PC ever since I installed the SP1 image, and I have had no security problems. I suspect it will be the same with Adobe Flash.
You should install updates…
Nah, I don't trust Microsoft.
Also, if it's not broken, why should I try to fix it?

Because security?

Not here much, but sometimes I lurk.
God has a plan. He has a plan for everything, and everyone.

badatprogrammingibe

infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
TailsDoll506 wrote:
j12006 wrote:
Maybe we can have a non mit website to have an archive of scratch 2.0 web editor ?
Good idea, but that's assuming someone copied the HTML before 3.0 happened.
I have, and I'm sure countless others have as well.
Also, the HTML itself probably isn't that important; you could probably easily hack together the HTML required for the scratch 2.0 swf to run.
There are also a few backups of the scratch 2.0 web editor, for example: https://scratchx.org/#scratch, and also https://s2online.github.io/.
The big issue with doing this is the significant security risk that will be an issue after Flash is discontinued.
Meh, I doubt there will be any massive security issues just because a program isn't regularly updated.
I have never updated my Windows 7 PC ever since I installed the SP1 image, and I have had no security problems. I suspect it will be the same with Adobe Flash.
You should install updates…
Nah, I don't trust Microsoft.
Also, if it's not broken, why should I try to fix it?
Because security?

You have a better chance of having your computer spied on or otherwise exploited due to updates than to security flaws.

congyingzhou

TailsDoll506 wrote:
EVERYONE
I HAVE A SOLUTION
JUST
JUST GO BACK TO SCRATCH 0.2
IT WAS PERFECT

(Don’t take this seriously please)

0.2?

…

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infinitytec

badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
TailsDoll506 wrote:
j12006 wrote:
Maybe we can have a non mit website to have an archive of scratch 2.0 web editor ?
Good idea, but that's assuming someone copied the HTML before 3.0 happened.
I have, and I'm sure countless others have as well.
Also, the HTML itself probably isn't that important; you could probably easily hack together the HTML required for the scratch 2.0 swf to run.
There are also a few backups of the scratch 2.0 web editor, for example: https://scratchx.org/#scratch, and also https://s2online.github.io/.
The big issue with doing this is the significant security risk that will be an issue after Flash is discontinued.
Meh, I doubt there will be any massive security issues just because a program isn't regularly updated.
I have never updated my Windows 7 PC ever since I installed the SP1 image, and I have had no security problems. I suspect it will be the same with Adobe Flash.
You should install updates…
Nah, I don't trust Microsoft.
Also, if it's not broken, why should I try to fix it?
Because security?
You have a better chance of having your computer spied on or otherwise exploited due to updates than to security flaws.

Windows 7 has plenty of analytics already. Switch to Linux.

Not here much, but sometimes I lurk.
God has a plan. He has a plan for everything, and everyone.

badatprogrammingibe

infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
TailsDoll506 wrote:
j12006 wrote:
Maybe we can have a non mit website to have an archive of scratch 2.0 web editor ?
Good idea, but that's assuming someone copied the HTML before 3.0 happened.
I have, and I'm sure countless others have as well.
Also, the HTML itself probably isn't that important; you could probably easily hack together the HTML required for the scratch 2.0 swf to run.
There are also a few backups of the scratch 2.0 web editor, for example: https://scratchx.org/#scratch, and also https://s2online.github.io/.
The big issue with doing this is the significant security risk that will be an issue after Flash is discontinued.
Meh, I doubt there will be any massive security issues just because a program isn't regularly updated.
I have never updated my Windows 7 PC ever since I installed the SP1 image, and I have had no security problems. I suspect it will be the same with Adobe Flash.
You should install updates…
Nah, I don't trust Microsoft.
Also, if it's not broken, why should I try to fix it?
Because security?
You have a better chance of having your computer spied on or otherwise exploited due to updates than to security flaws.
Windows 7 has plenty of analytics already. Switch to Linux.

Windows 7 has only had “analytics” due to updates, which I don't have a single of which installed past SP1 (2012).

Last edited by badatprogrammingibe (May 16, 2019 21:10:25)

infinitytec

WolvesRock1767 wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
TailsDoll506 wrote:
j12006 wrote:
Maybe we can have a non mit website to have an archive of scratch 2.0 web editor ?
Good idea, but that's assuming someone copied the HTML before 3.0 happened.
I have, and I'm sure countless others have as well.
Also, the HTML itself probably isn't that important; you could probably easily hack together the HTML required for the scratch 2.0 swf to run.
There are also a few backups of the scratch 2.0 web editor, for example: https://scratchx.org/#scratch, and also https://s2online.github.io/.
The big issue with doing this is the significant security risk that will be an issue after Flash is discontinued.
scratch 3.0 is the worst update ever!

I have been very supportive of 3.0 for a long time, and still support it because it is neccessary due to the Flash discontinuation and the technologies it is using in general are better. But, as someone who lived through the 2.0 transition, I have a few thoughts on how this one could have done better:

The rollout was done too fast. The editor that the Scratch community was pointed to to test lacked many of the improvements of the other testing build. This resulted in a lot of people getting worked up about obvious flaws, which had already been fixed. The biggest fault this resulted in: many of the compatibility issues were not realized. The release should have been delayed until at least June 2019.
Q4 2018 had a project player about as capable as the current one. The ST should have deployed that alongside the Flash-based player much like was done with the Java player and the Flash player. This would have allowed a lot of input towards the compatibility issues.
Scratch 3.0 needs memory use improvements ASAP.
The anti aliasing in 3.0 needs some work. Project graphics are not as sharp as they were in 2.0.
The ST should make a quality responsive website that doesn't result in any missing links on mobile devices.

TL;DR: 3.0 still feels like a beta version.

Last edited by infinitytec (May 17, 2019 15:05:41)

Not here much, but sometimes I lurk.
God has a plan. He has a plan for everything, and everyone.

ResExsention

badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
infinitytec wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
TailsDoll506 wrote:
j12006 wrote:
Maybe we can have a non mit website to have an archive of scratch 2.0 web editor ?
Good idea, but that's assuming someone copied the HTML before 3.0 happened.
I have, and I'm sure countless others have as well.
Also, the HTML itself probably isn't that important; you could probably easily hack together the HTML required for the scratch 2.0 swf to run.
There are also a few backups of the scratch 2.0 web editor, for example: https://scratchx.org/#scratch, and also https://s2online.github.io/.
The big issue with doing this is the significant security risk that will be an issue after Flash is discontinued.
Meh, I doubt there will be any massive security issues just because a program isn't regularly updated.
I have never updated my Windows 7 PC ever since I installed the SP1 image, and I have had no security problems. I suspect it will be the same with Adobe Flash.
You should install updates…
Nah, I don't trust Microsoft.
Also, if it's not broken, why should I try to fix it?
Because security?
You have a better chance of having your computer spied on or otherwise exploited due to updates than to security flaws.

Lol. I don't trust Microsoft, either. Really? They would give away your private information like nothing! My laptop would be running Linux by now except for the fact that most apps run on Windows…

So, the way I'm getting around that? I went ahead and joined Windows Insider on the Fast ring, so now I get prebuilds about every week. Now I'm just going to wait, make good suggestions for future releases, build reputation, and then shoot Microsoft down.

Also, I remain on no support. Aside from Flash getting outdated, have you ever heard of scripts that can be put in Adobe Flash to collect data on you?

Infrequently active.

It feels weird to see how far we've come. I hope you're well, wherever you are!

CatsUnited

ResExsention wrote:
badatprogrammingibe wrote:
You have a better chance of having your computer spied on or otherwise exploited due to updates than to security flaws.

Lol. I don't trust Microsoft, either. Really? They would give away your private information like nothing! My laptop would be running Linux by now except for the fact that most apps run on Windows…

So, the way I'm getting around that? I went ahead and joined Windows Insider on the Fast ring, so now I get prebuilds about every week. Now I'm just going to wait, make good suggestions for future releases, build reputation, and then shoot Microsoft down.

Also, I remain on no support. Aside from Flash getting outdated, have you ever heard of scripts that can be put in Adobe Flash to collect data on you?

You can put tracking scripts in pretty much anything, not just Flash.
Windows 7 now is where Windows XP was 5 years ago - a pretty old operating system, but it's still being used by lots of people and almost all Windows apps support Windows 7.

bottom text

comp09

I would like to make clear that running an unpatched version of Windows is extremely unsafe. There are multiple zero-day vulnerabilities in versions of Windows as old as a few months, and running vulnerable software puts everyone on the Internet at risk, not just you and any information you store or access using the computer.

Please keep your computer up to date. If you have privacy concerns with Windows 10, there are ways to disable telemetry, and there exist other operating systems that might satisfy your privacy needs better.

Last edited by comp09 (May 17, 2019 16:48:30)

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infinitytec

comp09 wrote:
I would like to make clear that running an unpatched version of Windows is extremely unsafe. There are multiple zero-day vulnerabilities in versions of Windows as old as a few months, and running vulnerable software puts everyone on the Internet at risk, not just you and any information you store or access using the computer.

Please keep your computer up to date. If you have privacy concerns with Windows 10, there are ways to disable telemetry, and there exist other operating systems that might satisfy your privacy needs better.

And most software is compatible with Linux now anyway, or has a suitable replacement. I prefer much FOSS over the paid options anyway. Still need Windows to run games or something? Dual-boot. And you won't risk your personal information as much.

Last edited by infinitytec (May 17, 2019 16:58:57)

Not here much, but sometimes I lurk.
God has a plan. He has a plan for everything, and everyone.

MegaApuTurkUltra

infinitytec wrote:
Still need Windows to run games or something?

basically a thing of the past

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CalvanoDeGreat

There is always the offline editor too.

TailsDoll506 wrote:
j12006 wrote:
Maybe we can have a non mit website to have an archive of scratch 2.0 web editor ?
Good idea, but that's assuming someone copied the HTML before 3.0 happened.

j12006 wrote:
Maybe we can have a non mit website to have an archive of scratch 2.0 web editor ?

Paddle2See

Thanks for all the helpful feedback on this! We'll continue to evaluate our design choices as time and resources allow.

The original post had some good suggestions about the technology behind Scratch 3. Our design team has had time to review those suggestions and follow up on what made sense to them, from a design standpoint. Recently, the topic just seemed to be acting as a lightning rod for a variety of unconstructive complaints - probably because of the non-specific topic title. Forcing new topics should help us stay on point, hopefully.

Last edited by Paddle2See (May 20, 2019 22:04:49)

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