Lizka2002 wrote:

I'm currently using Doberman Dreamweaver in IT lessons to create a simple HTML based page. Anyone else done this before?

16Skittles wrote:

When I was in sixth grade in Industrial Tech class we made web sites in Flash. It was interesting but I wish we had actually done HTML and stuff. It would have required more introduction than using flash but it would have actually been useful. Anyone making web sites in Flash these days is missing out on a huge portion of web traffic from mobile, not to mention that it's arguably (probably objectively, too) inferior. That was four years ago and mobile traffic really spiked since then, so it might have been somewhat applicable then, but apart from gaining a basic knowledge of flash, nobody who took that class will be into the industry before Flash is disregarded in general, not just on mobile.

turkey3 wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

When I was in sixth grade in Industrial Tech class we made web sites in Flash. It was interesting but I wish we had actually done HTML and stuff. It would have required more introduction than using flash but it would have actually been useful. Anyone making web sites in Flash these days is missing out on a huge portion of web traffic from mobile, not to mention that it's arguably (probably objectively, too) inferior. That was four years ago and mobile traffic really spiked since then, so it might have been somewhat applicable then, but apart from gaining a basic knowledge of flash, nobody who took that class will be into the industry before Flash is disregarded in general, not just on mobile.

Around me it's hard to find a non-college school that even teaches coding. Out of the hundreds of real people I know only I can code, and my one friend knows a bit of C++.

Flamekebab wrote:

Lizka2002 wrote:

I'm currently using Doberman Dreamweaver in IT lessons to create a simple HTML based page. Anyone else done this before?

“Doberman Dreamweaver”? I googled that - there were three results. One was this thread.

I've used Dreamweaver before, many years ago. I didn't like it all that much. Not the worst tool though, I just got tired of coding things by hand.

fetchydog567 wrote:

Flamekebab wrote:

Lizka2002 wrote:

I'm currently using Doberman Dreamweaver in IT lessons to create a simple HTML based page. Anyone else done this before?

“Doberman Dreamweaver”? I googled that - there were three results. One was this thread.

I've used Dreamweaver before, many years ago. I didn't like it all that much. Not the worst tool though, I just got tired of coding things by hand.

Three results? There's about 2,790,000 results..

turkey3 wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

When I was in sixth grade in Industrial Tech class we made web sites in Flash. It was interesting but I wish we had actually done HTML and stuff. It would have required more introduction than using flash but it would have actually been useful. Anyone making web sites in Flash these days is missing out on a huge portion of web traffic from mobile, not to mention that it's arguably (probably objectively, too) inferior. That was four years ago and mobile traffic really spiked since then, so it might have been somewhat applicable then, but apart from gaining a basic knowledge of flash, nobody who took that class will be into the industry before Flash is disregarded in general, not just on mobile.

Around me it's hard to find a non-college school that even teaches coding. Out of the hundreds of real people I know only I can code, and my one friend knows a bit of C++.

Gravitation wrote:

turkey3 wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

When I was in sixth grade in Industrial Tech class we made web sites in Flash. It was interesting but I wish we had actually done HTML and stuff. It would have required more introduction than using flash but it would have actually been useful. Anyone making web sites in Flash these days is missing out on a huge portion of web traffic from mobile, not to mention that it's arguably (probably objectively, too) inferior. That was four years ago and mobile traffic really spiked since then, so it might have been somewhat applicable then, but apart from gaining a basic knowledge of flash, nobody who took that class will be into the industry before Flash is disregarded in general, not just on mobile.

Around me it's hard to find a non-college school that even teaches coding. Out of the hundreds of real people I know only I can code, and my one friend knows a bit of C++.

The only coding class in my entire country is a graphic design place that also teaches a bit of Javascript.

Lots of people are making websites nowadays, and that's great, but it's the way they do it that worries me. Low-level programming is dying.

turkey3 wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

When I was in sixth grade in Industrial Tech class we made web sites in Flash. It was interesting but I wish we had actually done HTML and stuff. It would have required more introduction than using flash but it would have actually been useful. Anyone making web sites in Flash these days is missing out on a huge portion of web traffic from mobile, not to mention that it's arguably (probably objectively, too) inferior. That was four years ago and mobile traffic really spiked since then, so it might have been somewhat applicable then, but apart from gaining a basic knowledge of flash, nobody who took that class will be into the industry before Flash is disregarded in general, not just on mobile.

Around me it's hard to find a non-college school that even teaches coding. Out of the hundreds of real people I know only I can code, and my one friend knows a bit of C++.

16Skittles wrote:

Gravitation wrote:

turkey3 wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

When I was in sixth grade in Industrial Tech class we made web sites in Flash. It was interesting but I wish we had actually done HTML and stuff. It would have required more introduction than using flash but it would have actually been useful. Anyone making web sites in Flash these days is missing out on a huge portion of web traffic from mobile, not to mention that it's arguably (probably objectively, too) inferior. That was four years ago and mobile traffic really spiked since then, so it might have been somewhat applicable then, but apart from gaining a basic knowledge of flash, nobody who took that class will be into the industry before Flash is disregarded in general, not just on mobile.

Around me it's hard to find a non-college school that even teaches coding. Out of the hundreds of real people I know only I can code, and my one friend knows a bit of C++.

The only coding class in my entire country is a graphic design place that also teaches a bit of Javascript.

Lots of people are making websites nowadays, and that's great, but it's the way they do it that worries me. Low-level programming is dying.

Depends how you mean. By Low-level do you mean the (1) super-low level languages like assembly? Or (2) are you referring to html/css/js or other languages as low-level as opposed to web-site creators or graphically based stuff like Scratch and Labview (those are just ones I know of, there are others)?

Choose the appropriate response from below, disregard the other one.

1: Don't worry, assembly isn't going anywhere. Even with the higher-level languages, modifying them requires asm compiling and interpreting. Think of the fact that many people no longer use it as an added level of job security in the future! If you know assembly, you'll have a step up on the competition, especially if your job is working with low-level stuff like that on dev tools or operating systems.

2: Yeah, that is kind of sad to see programming move to that state. Of course there are people who don't want to or need to know how to program, who also want to make web sites. It's not really appropriate to just say “well too bad!” Unfortunately though, it does mean that people working with them don't really know how to do anything low-level, and will most likely end up with just a templated web site with their name on it. Graphically based programming languages do still require skill, but the slow, unnatural process of interacting with commands is inferior to writing code through text, which is something that most people have been doing for years. If you are going to put effort into becoming proficient with a language, why not at least make it one that is more frequently used and allows for more flexibility?

turkey3 wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

When I was in sixth grade in Industrial Tech class we made web sites in Flash. It was interesting but I wish we had actually done HTML and stuff. It would have required more introduction than using flash but it would have actually been useful. Anyone making web sites in Flash these days is missing out on a huge portion of web traffic from mobile, not to mention that it's arguably (probably objectively, too) inferior. That was four years ago and mobile traffic really spiked since then, so it might have been somewhat applicable then, but apart from gaining a basic knowledge of flash, nobody who took that class will be into the industry before Flash is disregarded in general, not just on mobile.

Around me it's hard to find a non-college school that even teaches coding. Out of the hundreds of real people I know only I can code, and my one friend knows a bit of C++.

It's a difficult situation. Yes, it is bad that most students aren't exposed to computer science. On the other hand, look at the most successful stories of tech: Bill Gates, Steve Wozniak (see end note) and Mark Zuckerberg all dropped out of school, yet clearly were incredibly talented in computer science. Granted, Bill Gates and Steve Wozniak essentially made computer science something relevant to the average person as opposed to a niche industry, so computer science education at schooling was likely insufficient if it existed at all. Certainly anything covered in the class, Gates or Woz had learned years ago. I won't say Zuckerberg is a programmer on the level of Woz or Gates, but he had the tools he needed to be successful before he went to Harvard. As soon as he had a viable business to go to, he left and did Facebook full-time.

My point is, Computer Science is a field where the best learning opportunities very likely are not in the classroom. The amount of free resources and people willing to help with programming on the internet is unparalleled by any other field of study I am aware of. It is disappointing that there are so few people interested or capable, but I would just like to point out that it's not just that schools are slow to take up computer science, but that better resources can be found elsewhere.

(end note)
For those who don't know him, Steve Wozniak is one of the three most important people in Apple's company history. Probably the most important, because without his invention Steve Jobs would have been a no-name hippie dropping out of college and partaking in illegal substances. Or at least that's what I took from the Jobs movie. In all seriousness, Steve Wozniak invented the Apple Computer. Steve Jobs, seeing its potential, convinced Woz to enter into a commercial venture with him. Without Jobs, it's true, Woz wouldn't have been famous either. Woz was very skeptical at first that there was a market for such a device. Remember, kids. Steve Wozniak is the real inventor of the Personal Computer. Steve Jobs just sold it to you.

Also the third person (since I made a point to say that there were three) in my view is Sir Jonathan Ive, Senior Vice President of Industrial Design at Apple. He's the one who designed the original iMac, which arguably saved Apple from financial disaster. His design vision, partnered with that of Steve Jobs helped to take the failing Apple and turn it into one of the most instantly recognizable companies in the world.

That was a long end note that was kind of off topic. But still, the more you know….

Gravitation wrote:

turkey3 wrote:

16Skittles wrote:

When I was in sixth grade in Industrial Tech class we made web sites in Flash. It was interesting but I wish we had actually done HTML and stuff. It would have required more introduction than using flash but it would have actually been useful. Anyone making web sites in Flash these days is missing out on a huge portion of web traffic from mobile, not to mention that it's arguably (probably objectively, too) inferior. That was four years ago and mobile traffic really spiked since then, so it might have been somewhat applicable then, but apart from gaining a basic knowledge of flash, nobody who took that class will be into the industry before Flash is disregarded in general, not just on mobile.

Around me it's hard to find a non-college school that even teaches coding. Out of the hundreds of real people I know only I can code, and my one friend knows a bit of C++.

The only coding class in my entire country is a graphic design place that also teaches a bit of Javascript.

Lots of people are making websites nowadays, and that's great, but it's the way they do it that worries me. Low-level programming is dying.

turkey3 wrote:

*snip*
Why can't high-level languages just be compiled into machine code? Anyways, yes, Wozniak did a lot of the inventing, but many people still criticize Jobs. It's not like he would go put bragging about how he invented the personal computer. And it' snot like Steve Jobs didn't know anything about computers, either.

Edit: Maybe Steve Jobs would have suggested IOS7 not to auto-change the phrase “it's not” into “it' snot”? XD