cheddargirl wrote:

The Community Guidelines should have been kept in mind at all time, there really shouldn't have been any need to go into a thread to request peace of an issue that is a kind of low on our things to think about.

In a perfect world, then yes. Everybody would think about the repercussions of doing anything, even getting strawberry ice cream over vanilla (see what I did there?). Everybody would be completely respectful of other people's opinions and not get angry about what other people think. But that'll never happen, since we live in a very imperfect world. I bet that even if they thought about the guidelines before commenting, it wouldn't have prevented everything, as their comments weren't even breaking them. (Note: I'm referring to everyone here, since I don't care either way.) It's just those comments sparked an irrational argument where you had no time to think about whether you were breaking the guidelines or not. I honestly wish you would have posted sooner, as that would probably have prevented a lot, but I know how busy you guys are.

TL;DR: ST involvement was necessary here, no matter what.

But I'm glad everything is better now. My guess is what sparked the argument is laziness: not reading the entire topic post before commenting. This is one of the flaws of human beings.

Wes64 wrote:

Chainmanner wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

One of the listed solutions was Ban “add everything” studios (even though you already acknowledged as a bad one?), and you mentioned in your first thread “If you still feel unclear as to why “add everything” studios need removing…”. That suggestion and type of writing is perceived it as an attack on “Add Everything” studios. It's why supporters on this thread are being perceived as being cruel and negative here.

Cheddar, you might be misunderstanding. Suggesting for something to be removed isn't in and of itself literally an attack, and he literally says that it's a bad idea. And supporters like me are looking for solutions on how to SOLVE the rage, not create even more. None of us are going onto galleries and deleting everything. We're talking as nicely as possible, so in other words nobody is attacking others, unless you're pointing out to a few bad eggs among both sides.

i impore you to read my previous pose

http://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/post/129035/

I read it, all right.

Quoting myself because it was hidden by immense walls of text.

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

zorket wrote:

I did a google advanced search finding pages under the domain scratch.mit.edu/studios, and I got about 213 million studios. Someone else found out that 50 thousand of them are add everything. That means that roughly 0.023% of all studios are add everything. I actually thought it would be 5%.

*Ahem* This is waaaaaaay off. There are only about 230,000 studios, so 50,000 out of 230,000 is more than ~21% of all studios.

So long as we keep arguing with the ST about this issue, the less is going to be done. We need to come up with better ideas instead of shooting the straw man about these studios.

cheddargirl wrote:

Chainmanner wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

One of the listed solutions was Ban “add everything” studios (even though you already acknowledged as a bad one?), and you mentioned in your first thread “If you still feel unclear as to why “add everything” studios need removing…”. That suggestion and type of writing is perceived it as an attack on “Add Everything” studios. It's why supporters on this thread are being perceived as being cruel and negative here.

Cheddar, you might be misunderstanding. Suggesting for something to be removed isn't in and of itself literally an attack, and he literally says that it's a bad idea. And supporters like me are looking for solutions on how to SOLVE the rage, not create even more. None of us are going onto galleries and deleting everything. We're talking as nicely as possible, so in other words nobody is attacking others, unless you're pointing out to a few bad eggs among both sides.

Actually, suggesting something for removal can be seen as an attack of sorts - it kind of mimics previous issues like the removal on art projects, or projects with cats on the front page, and result is that the creators of the content (in this case, the “Add Everything” studio creators) start feeling unwelcome, and this isn't okay. Seeing statements “If you still feel unclear as to why ‘add everything’ studios need removing…” and having the suggestion “Ban ‘Add Everything’ Studios”, even if it removal is being acknowledged is a bad idea, doesn't exactly ease tensions.

I've seen some supporters here go into “Add Everything” galleries and post comments on “Add Everything” galleries trying to convince user to stop continuing them, or sabotage them by pretending to want to be a curator and end up deleting projects as soon as they join. But in some way, the fact that “Ban ‘Add Everything’ studios” is even listed as a suggestions makes supporters look like they just wish for the removal “Add Everything” as a result.

Okay then, my bad, I suppose I didn't see both sides of the blade.

I'm outta here! I'm no help in these arguments…

BUT, here's a quick suggestion before leaving!

What about that the project creators, can remove their projects if they're added to a gallery? But ONLY theirs.
Erm… I'm a bit confused too. So, the project creators, if their project is added to a gallery, they have the option to REMOVE their project if they don't want it in there.

Simple n' easy, no? Those who mind the AE studios can remove their projects quickly and safely without arguments. And those who don't care; will leave it.

However, I think that there might be a trolling issue, like they added it, then removed, and again and again…

MEWLY, OUT!

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

Quoting myself because it was hidden by immense walls of text.

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

zorket wrote:

I did a google advanced search finding pages under the domain scratch.mit.edu/studios, and I got about 213 million studios. Someone else found out that 50 thousand of them are add everything. That means that roughly 0.023% of all studios are add everything. I actually thought it would be 5%.

*Ahem* This is waaaaaaay off. There are only about 230,000 studios, so 50,000 out of 230,000 is more than ~21% of all studios.

So long as we keep arguing with the ST about this issue, the less is going to be done. We need to come up with better ideas instead of shooting the straw man about these studios.

I'm not trying to argue with the ST, I'm trying to help.

I think the best solution to this problem is the suggested feature to hide certain studios from the list of studios your project is in, even though it will still be in the studio. This would help us ignore the add everything studios and like lightnin stated, they'll eventually go away if we don't fight about them.

Implementing one of the suggested solutions might take an hour or two, but wouldn't it help stop the situation?

mitchboy wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

The Community Guidelines should have been kept in mind at all time, there really shouldn't have been any need to go into a thread to request peace of an issue that is a kind of low on our things to think about.

In a perfect world, then yes. Everybody would think about the repercussions of doing anything, even getting strawberry ice cream over vanilla (see what I did there?). Everybody would be completely respectful of other people's opinions and not get angry about what other people think. But that'll never happen, since we live in a very imperfect world. I bet that even if they thought about the guidelines before commenting, it wouldn't have prevented everything, as their comments weren't even breaking them. (Note: I'm referring to everyone here, since I don't care either way.) It's just those comments sparked an irrational argument where you had no time to think about whether you were breaking the guidelines or not. I honestly wish you would have posted sooner, as that would probably have prevented a lot, but I know how busy you guys are.

TL;DR: ST involvement was necessary here, no matter what.

But I'm glad everything is better now. My guess is what sparked the argument is laziness: not reading the entire topic post before commenting. This is one of the flaws of human beings.

Why are you explaining to the Scratch Team that we don't live in a perfect world? Educators are educated…

zorket wrote:

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

Quoting myself because it was hidden by immense walls of text.

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

zorket wrote:

I did a google advanced search finding pages under the domain scratch.mit.edu/studios, and I got about 213 million studios. Someone else found out that 50 thousand of them are add everything. That means that roughly 0.023% of all studios are add everything. I actually thought it would be 5%.

*Ahem* This is waaaaaaay off. There are only about 230,000 studios, so 50,000 out of 230,000 is more than ~21% of all studios.

So long as we keep arguing with the ST about this issue, the less is going to be done. We need to come up with better ideas instead of shooting the straw man about these studios.

I'm not trying to argue with the ST, I'm trying to help.

I think the best solution to this problem is the suggested feature to hide certain studios from the list of studios your project is in, even though it will still be in the studio. This would help us ignore the add everything studios and like lightnin stated, they'll eventually go away if we don't fight about them.

Implementing one of the suggested solutions might take an hour or two, but wouldn't it help stop the situation?

Yeah, that idea sounds the best right now.

Put me down as a supporter!

mitchboy wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

The Community Guidelines should have been kept in mind at all time, there really shouldn't have been any need to go into a thread to request peace of an issue that is a kind of low on our things to think about.

In a perfect world, then yes. Everybody would think about the repercussions of doing anything, even getting strawberry ice cream over vanilla (see what I did there?). Everybody would be completely respectful of other people's opinions and not get angry about what other people think. But that'll never happen, since we live in a very imperfect world. I bet that even if they thought about the guidelines before commenting, it wouldn't have prevented everything, as their comments weren't even breaking them.(Note: I'm referring to everyone here, since I don't care either way.) It's just those comments sparked an irrational argument where you had no time to think about whether you were breaking the guidelines or not. I honestly wish you would have posted sooner, as that would probably have prevented a lot, but I know how busy you guys are.

Maybe, maybe not. I think it's more of the fact that some of the user involved in the fiasco don't realize that telling AE studio creator to discontinue their studio is not okay no matter how respectful the comment may be written. A comment written with respectful can still have a disrespectful undertone. Save for the forcefulness behind the former, there isn't much difference behind the intent when posting “TAKE DOWN THIS STUDIO” or “You shouldn't continue this ‘Add Everything’ studio”.

I don't know if posting sooner would have changed much, as most of the nastiness “Add Everything” studio was on the main site (in fact, I'm not all that certain it ended since there are still some flagged comments coming into the report section). One of the problems currently being faced by the Scratch Team is that the forums are kind of separate from the main site, almost its own community even, and that makes it harder to track issues that between two areas - in this case, you could have one user who simply says “Support” here, and to a glancing ST member or Community Moderator, that may not mean they're doing something bad, but the actions on the main site end up being quite different. But better forum integration for moderation improvement is another issue for the ST to discuss in their own time.

idea! if a project is put in studio you are already curator.

seanbobe wrote:

idea! if a project is put in studio you are already curator.
you must pay to make studios.(ae is typically by kids)

WHAT ABOUT THE RPG'S THEN?!?! D:

seanbobe wrote:

idea! if a project is put in studio you are already curator.
you must pay to make studios.(ae is typically by kids)

Scratch is supposed to be a free site, open to all ages.
And I'm really sick of sites that require you to pay money to gain access to certain aspects of the site; it's just annoying and frustrating.

seanbobe wrote:

idea! if a project is put in studio you are already curator.

That's a terrible idea, sorry, but that won't solve anything.

you must pay to make studios.(ae is typically by kids)

I can't even… just no.

seanbobe wrote:

idea! if a project is put in studio you are already curator.
you must pay to make studios.(ae is typically by kids)

WORST.IDEA.EVER!!!

everybodyedit wrote:

seanbobe wrote:

idea! if a project is put in studio you are already curator.
you must pay to make studios.(ae is typically by kids)

WORST.IDEA.EVER!!!

Yep, scratch is already free. If you had to pay to make studios they would become EXTREMELY rare.

Also kids make lots of studios.

Know what guys, count me out. I can't get why we all have to make a flippin' war over every small detail or thing in existence.

Chainmanner wrote:

Know what guys, count me out. I can't get why we all have to make a flippin' war over every small detail or thing in existence.

Especially on a website that is supposed to be kids friendly.

Here's an idea:
The Add Everything studios could be narrowed down to one or two, and since there are less,
-There are less AE studios clogging up Scratch.
-All the AE studio users devote their attention to those few studios, making THOSE more productive.
Win-Win, right?

mitchboy wrote:

I think the best solution is Lightnin's idea to add a flood limit (as in you can only upload x number of projects in x number of days) plus #2 and #6. This would slow add everything studios and restore the purpose of studios, but not affect anyone else.

^ This is the best solution, in my opinion.