cheeseeater wrote:

Just because we disagree with these studio, for our resons, we have had flamers and all stuff! Just becuse they disagree with us they are calling us “mean and heartless”. We respect them, they need to respect us. We don't go to their campain and call them mean and heartless.

Thanks for reading, cheeseeater

tcodina wrote:

I helped you guys by making the ST remove the “Add by tag” feature in studios :3 I think that this problem is gone now

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

tcodina wrote:

I helped you guys by making the ST remove the “Add by tag” feature in studios :3 I think that this problem is gone now

Well done But I'm certain the problem isn't gone yet.

tcodina wrote:

I helped you guys by making the ST remove the “Add by tag” feature in studios :3 I think that this problem is gone now

Firedrake969 wrote:

You guys:

We need to find the percentage of AE studios that are active in the last month COMPARED TO the number of studios active in the last month. Not in the total number of ALL studios.

zorket wrote:

734 studios have been updated in the past month.
26 studios with “add everything” have been updated in the past month.
2 studios with “biggest gallery” have been updated in the past month.
0 studios with “biggest studio” have been updated in the past month.

That's 28 out of 734 active studios, which is 3.814%. I'm not sure if I did that right.

cheddargirl wrote:

tcodina wrote:

I helped you guys by making the ST remove the “Add by tag” feature in studios :3 I think that this problem is gone now

We didn't remove the tags because of the anti-AE movement, you know. We had other reasons.

tcodina wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

tcodina wrote:

I helped you guys by making the ST remove the “Add by tag” feature in studios :3 I think that this problem is gone now

We didn't remove the tags because of the anti-AE movement, you know. We had other reasons.

Ah. I gave some in the project “Tags are useless”. One ST member, lightnin, checked the project saying they were still working on tags. I wanted them gone, but i think that you made what most of the community requested.

cheddargirl wrote:

tcodina wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

tcodina wrote:

I helped you guys by making the ST remove the “Add by tag” feature in studios :3 I think that this problem is gone now

We didn't remove the tags because of the anti-AE movement, you know. We had other reasons.

Ah. I gave some in the project “Tags are useless”. One ST member, lightnin, checked the project saying they were still working on tags. I wanted them gone, but i think that you made what most of the community requested.

I don't want to give the impression that you helped out the supporters on this tread when the feature was removed, neither the impression that you were the one responsible for getting the ST to remove the feature in the first place. It's far from the case. Some users were sabotaging studios by using it to mass-spam them with projects that didn't match the studio subject, one of the main reasons behind the removal. It may end up coming back someday, but a revision is tied in with curator permissions, which is an entirely different issue that the ST had been discussing for a while.

cheddargirl wrote:

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

zorket wrote:

Percentages don't say everything. There are 28 add everything studios that have had activity in the past month.

Stop worrying about the numbers- we can all see that they're there, so no matter how many of them there are or what percentage they make up or how many have been active, they still annoy people, whether they make up 50% or 0.000005% of studios, that doesn't really matter.

You mean they annoy some people. Not everyone is annoyed by them.

cheddargirl wrote:

Because of the aggressiveness of the anti-AE movement…

cheddargirl wrote:

The numbers are useful here, since some believe AE studios are spammy and make up a significant number of the studio group - but the statistics just shows how much smaller the issue is since the issue is only for a very small number of studios.

cheddargirl wrote:

As far as I see it, the issue isn't so much an AE one, but simply suggestions for improvements to the studio system in general, something which is still in progress for the ST. Given that, I suggest waiting for the studio improvements to roll out first before jumping on the “AE studios are problematic” bandwagon.

cheddargirl wrote:

tcodina wrote:

I helped you guys by making the ST remove the “Add by tag” feature in studios :3 I think that this problem is gone now

We didn't remove the tags because of the anti-AE movement, you know. We had other reasons.

I don't want to give the impression that you helped out the supporters on this tread when the feature was removed… Some users were sabotaging studios by using it to mass-spam them with projects that didn't match the studio subject, one of the main reasons behind the removal.

cheddargirl wrote:

Definitely, and that's what the issue is about: stopping the attack on AE studios.

• Mean
  
• Selfish
  
• Cruel
  
• Heartless
  
• A “terrorist” (this one was personally aimed at myself)

zorket wrote:

I did a google advanced search finding pages under the domain scratch.mit.edu/studios, and I got about 213 million studios. Someone else found out that 50 thousand of them are add everything. That means that roughly 0.023% of all studios are add everything. I actually thought it would be 5%.

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

And I've just found something that I'll admit I found very shocking:

cheddargirl wrote:

Definitely, and that's what the issue is about: stopping the attack on AE studios.

Ok, what?! So after a 2000+ word post explaining some problems in the Scratch Community, the whole “issue” has somehow flipped around to protecting AE studios? cheddargirl, you called me “Very quite biased” but so far it hardly seems like you are looking at the whole story. As a result of this topic, I, and other supporters, have been called:

• Mean
  
• Selfish
  
• Cruel
  
• Heartless
  
• A “terrorist” (this one was personally aimed at myself)

Some of these have been reported, but nothing has been done about them, except for a comment from a Scratch Team member asking for some of these remarks to be removed (Note: the remarks weren't removed and the Scratch Team member's comment was deleted by the author of those remarks)
This is certainly, certainly not a one-way argument, with those who are anti-AE “attacking” those who are “anti-anti-AE”. (Note again, they don't call themselves pro-AE, but Anti-Anti-AE, meaning that they are aiming their actions at the Anti-AE rather than making an argument why AE is a good thing).

I hope what I'm about to say doesn't sound like I'm complaining about the Scratch Team, because I really admire and respect the whole team and what they do, but I believe that these “attacks” that you talk of could have been calmed if this topic was replied to sooner than it was by the Scratch Team. It took 10 days for the first comment from the Scratch Team, and that really didn't solve anything- it just asked for clarification. It wasn't until almost two weeks after this topic had been posted that we got a response indicating that we were being listened to, and that some solutions were being thought about.

What I'm suggesting is that in the future, divisive issues such as this one should be handled much sooner- obviously the ST have many more priorities and I was never expecting any of the suggestions to be implemented in a couple of days, but any reply from the ST in that time wouldn't have allowed for any aggression to build up. And I think I have proof that that would have helped: after cheddargirl posted for the first time asking for a bit of peace, people immediately calmed down, but it was a bit too late by then.

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

Ok, there are several points that need clearing up:

cheddargirl wrote:

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

zorket wrote:

Percentages don't say everything. There are 28 add everything studios that have had activity in the past month.

Stop worrying about the numbers- we can all see that they're there, so no matter how many of them there are or what percentage they make up or how many have been active, they still annoy people, whether they make up 50% or 0.000005% of studios, that doesn't really matter.

You mean they annoy some people. Not everyone is annoyed by them.

I never said they annoy everyone, if everyone hated them, then this wouldn't be an issue. If that's how you interpreted my post, then I could use the same logic to interpret this:

cheddargirl wrote:

Because of the aggressiveness of the anti-AE movement…

to mean that everyone who is anti-AE is being aggressive, which is not true, no matter what some people may think.

However, based on what this article from the Wiki suggests (albeit indirectly), and the response of this topic and other projects similar to this topic, I believe that perhaps the word “some” would be better replaced with “many” if not “most”, but I'm not going to spend more time discussing the tiny aspects of that particular part of the post.

cheddargirl wrote:

The numbers are useful here, since some believe AE studios are spammy and make up a significant number of the studio group - but the statistics just shows how much smaller the issue is since the issue is only for a very small number of studios.

Well, clearly there aren't 50,000 AE studios adding the same project, but even if the matter is smaller than 50,000 studios, if five out of twelve studios that a project is in is an AE studio, then the arguments of this topic still apply- they should still be considered spam and block out relevant studios, as well as making the studios bar look very messy.

That same argument could be applied to other types of studios that could also be perceived as spam or not relevant, such as studios geared towards collecting projects with one's favorite song files or a studio of project collected by a school for an assignment. I'm finding that kind of argument to be less of an “Add Everything” issue, just simply a studio sorting one. And the studio sorting issue is one that has been known for a while now.

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

As far as I see it, the issue isn't so much an AE one, but simply suggestions for improvements to the studio system in general, something which is still in progress for the ST. Given that, I suggest waiting for the studio improvements to roll out first before jumping on the “AE studios are problematic” bandwagon.

Yes, the studio system could be improved, but our need wouldn't be as great as it is now if it wasn't for AE studios, therefore I believe that the issue is an AE one.

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

As for waiting for studio improvements to roll out, before this topic I couldn't find any suggestions anywhere that this was being thought about, and a small part of me still believes that it wouldn't have been thought about if it wasn't for the “anti-AE movement”. If we had been told that “The Scratch Team plans to improve the studio system” then we would have known that something was going to be done about this, how could we have waited without knowing that it was being considered?

cheddargirl wrote:

tcodina wrote:

I helped you guys by making the ST remove the “Add by tag” feature in studios :3 I think that this problem is gone now

We didn't remove the tags because of the anti-AE movement, you know. We had other reasons.

I don't want to give the impression that you helped out the supporters on this tread when the feature was removed… Some users were sabotaging studios by using it to mass-spam them with projects that didn't match the studio subject, one of the main reasons behind the removal.

Surely users “mass-spamming” studios is the exact same problem that AE studios cause?! If “mass-spam” is what is to be avoided, then surely AE studios are the exact gathering-points of “mass-spam”?

And I've just found something that I'll admit I found very shocking:

cheddargirl wrote:

Definitely, and that's what the issue is about: stopping the attack on AE studios.

Ok, what?! So after a 2000+ word post explaining some problems in the Scratch Community, the whole “issue” has somehow flipped around to protecting AE studios? cheddargirl, you called me “Very quite biased” but so far it hardly seems like you are looking at the whole story. As a result of this topic, I, and other supporters, have been called:

• Mean
  
• Selfish
  
• Cruel
  
• Heartless
  
• A “terrorist” (this one was personally aimed at myself)

Some of these have been reported, but nothing has been done about them, except for a comment from a Scratch Team member asking for some of these remarks to be removed (Note: the remarks weren't removed and the Scratch Team member's comment was deleted by the author of those remarks)
This is certainly, certainly not a one-way argument, with those who are anti-AE “attacking” those who are “anti-anti-AE”. (Note again, they don't call themselves pro-AE, but Anti-Anti-AE, meaning that they are aiming their actions at the Anti-AE rather than making an argument why AE is a good thing).

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

I hope what I'm about to say doesn't sound like I'm complaining about the Scratch Team, because I really admire and respect the whole team and what they do, but I believe that these “attacks” that you talk of could have been calmed if this topic was replied to sooner than it was by the Scratch Team. It took 10 days for the first comment from the Scratch Team, and that really didn't solve anything- it just asked for clarification. It wasn't until almost two weeks after this topic had been posted that we got a response indicating that we were being listened to, and that some solutions were being thought about.

What I'm suggesting is that in the future, divisive issues such as this one should be handled much sooner- obviously the ST have many more priorities and I was never expecting any of the suggestions to be implemented in a couple of days, but any reply from the ST in that time wouldn't have allowed for any aggression to build up. And I think I have proof that that would have helped: after cheddargirl posted for the first time asking for a bit of peace, people immediately calmed down, but it was a bit too late by then.

cheddargirl wrote:

One of the listed solutions was Ban “add everything” studios (even though you already acknowledged as a bad one?), and you mentioned in your first thread “If you still feel unclear as to why “add everything” studios need removing…”. That suggestion and type of writing is perceived it as an attack on “Add Everything” studios. It's why supporters on this thread are being perceived as being cruel and negative here.

Chainmanner wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

One of the listed solutions was Ban “add everything” studios (even though you already acknowledged as a bad one?), and you mentioned in your first thread “If you still feel unclear as to why “add everything” studios need removing…”. That suggestion and type of writing is perceived it as an attack on “Add Everything” studios. It's why supporters on this thread are being perceived as being cruel and negative here.

Cheddar, you might be misunderstanding. Suggesting for something to be removed isn't in and of itself literally an attack, and he literally says that it's a bad idea. And supporters like me are looking for solutions on how to SOLVE the rage, not create even more. None of us are going onto galleries and deleting everything. We're talking as nicely as possible, so in other words nobody is attacking others, unless you're pointing out to a few bad eggs among both sides.

Chainmanner wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

One of the listed solutions was Ban “add everything” studios (even though you already acknowledged as a bad one?), and you mentioned in your first thread “If you still feel unclear as to why “add everything” studios need removing…”. That suggestion and type of writing is perceived it as an attack on “Add Everything” studios. It's why supporters on this thread are being perceived as being cruel and negative here.

Cheddar, you might be misunderstanding. Suggesting for something to be removed isn't in and of itself literally an attack, and he literally says that it's a bad idea. And supporters like me are looking for solutions on how to SOLVE the rage, not create even more. None of us are going onto galleries and deleting everything. We're talking as nicely as possible, so in other words nobody is attacking others, unless you're pointing out to a few bad eggs among both sides.

cheddargirl wrote:

I've seen some supporters here go into “Add Everything” galleries and post comments on “Add Everything” galleries trying to convince user to stop continuing them