M30W - Code Scratch with Scratchblocks!

Magnie

The syntax highlighting should be the original blocks. xD

▴ ▾ ▴ Macbook Pro 13" 2015 i5-5257U 8GB RAM - MacOS Sierra - Vivaldi v1.7 ▴ ▾ ▴
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who know ternary.

davidkt

Magnie wrote:
The syntax highlighting should be the original blocks. xD

?

Remember when I looked like this? I still do.

Float, my Scratch 2.0 mod | My (somewhat under-construction) blog

Magnie

davidkt wrote:
Magnie wrote:
The syntax highlighting should be the original blocks. xD
?

Have the actual blocks be displayed in the background when typing them in.

▴ ▾ ▴ Macbook Pro 13" 2015 i5-5257U 8GB RAM - MacOS Sierra - Vivaldi v1.7 ▴ ▾ ▴
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who know ternary.

davidkt

Magnie wrote:
davidkt wrote:
Magnie wrote:
The syntax highlighting should be the original blocks. xD
?
Have the actual blocks be displayed in the background when typing them in.

Oh. But shouldn't we have a beginner + advanced mode, having the beginner mode with the suggested highlighting and the scratchblocks syntax, and the advanced mode colour-coded and an alternate syntax?

Remember when I looked like this? I still do.

Float, my Scratch 2.0 mod | My (somewhat under-construction) blog

Magnie

davidkt wrote:
Magnie wrote:
davidkt wrote:
Magnie wrote:
The syntax highlighting should be the original blocks. xD
?
Have the actual blocks be displayed in the background when typing them in.
Oh. But shouldn't we have a beginner + advanced mode, having the beginner mode with the suggested highlighting and the scratchblocks syntax, and the advanced mode colour-coded and an alternate syntax?

Only if you are willing to program it, otherwise I would suggest sticking with one or the other.

▴ ▾ ▴ Macbook Pro 13" 2015 i5-5257U 8GB RAM - MacOS Sierra - Vivaldi v1.7 ▴ ▾ ▴
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who know ternary.

roijac

Hey, that's a really good idea, actually, and I don't plan on doing it either, so why not take it on yourself? Replace the wx.TextCtrl with something more appropriate for coding. Something like StyledTextControl would be great

Example of use for python here

Last edited by roijac (July 7, 2013 19:15:59)

davidkt

Example use of alternate syntax:

event on_GF_Click {
    say("Hello World!");
    repeat(10) {
        moveSteps(10);
        turnCW(15);
        //This is a comment
        penDown();
        chgX(42);
        var foo = 128;
        chgY(foo);
        penUp();
    }
    think("That's all folks!");
    say("BTW: Eat At Joe's!", secs = 2);
}

Last edited by davidkt (July 7, 2013 22:47:00)

Remember when I looked like this? I still do.

Float, my Scratch 2.0 mod | My (somewhat under-construction) blog

roijac

davidkt wrote:

Example use of alternate syntax:

event on_GF_Click {
    say("Hello World!");
    repeat(10) {
        moveSteps(10);
        turnCW(15);
        //This is a comment
        penDown();
        chgX(42);
        var foo = 128;
        chgY(foo);
        penUp();
    }
    think("That's all folks!");
    say("BTW: Eat At Joe's!", secs = 2);
}

No!
No curly brackets or semicolons for God's sake!

Now, seriously, these two unnecessary elements are so error-prone that I'm against anything that uses it.
And:

We don't init vars inside code in Scratch
The terminology ‘event’ is not used in Scratch. What's bad about ‘when gf clicked’ like users would expect it?
Cryptic abbreviations like chg don't help users guess what it means.
Having to indent every line is pretty redundant
Stay close to the Scratch blocks - special casing say(message, secs=-1) sure doesn't make parsing easier.

I beg to differ:

when gf clicked
say "Hello World!"
repeat 10
    move 10 steps
    turn cw 15 degrees  // Comments
    pen down
    change X by 42
    set [foo] to 128
    change Y by foo
end
think "That's all folks!"
say "BTW: Eat At Joe's!" for 2 secs

davidkt

roijac wrote:
We don't init vars inside code in Scratch

Ok… I don't like that either, let's not put it in.

The terminology ‘event’ is not used in Scratch. What's bad about ‘when gf clicked’ like users would expect it?

There is a new category called Event…

Cryptic abbreviations like chg don't help users guess what it means.

If you're an experienced programmer and are in advanced mode, then chances are, you'll know what it means.

Having to indent every line is pretty redundant

AUTOMATIC INDENTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIKE EVERY LEGITIMATE IDE!!!

Stay close to the Scratch blocks - special casing say(message, secs=-1) sure doesn't make parsing easier.

Well, this will be easier to translate other languages to, say, Java, Python, C, C++, Actionscript, JavaScript, C#, etc… I'm willing to write that code, if you want…

I beg to differ:

when gf clicked
say "Hello World!"
repeat 10
    move 10 steps
    turn cw 15 degrees  // Comments
    pen down
    change X by 42
    set [foo] to 128
    change Y by foo
end
think "That's all folks!"
say "BTW: Eat At Joe's!" for 2 secs

You don't have to use advanced mode…

Remember when I looked like this? I still do.

Float, my Scratch 2.0 mod | My (somewhat under-construction) blog

roijac

Sorry about the events, I forgot the did change it back from triggers to events

Well, this will be easier to translate other languages to, say, Java, Python, C, C++, Actionscript, JavaScript, C#, etc… I'm willing to write that code, if you want…

But it can't be translated easily because the GUI and the execution engine are already a big chunk of code. The only thing we want to translate to is Scratch (and, perhaps, Snap!). This argument is invalid

Now I understood you, you want to make sort of an ‘advanced mode’, right? But as long it doesn't have any advantages other than syntax I don't see the point of maintaining the two. I would really prefer to come to an agreement

About the indentation: Of course you can code an auto-indenter, but it still seems to me redundant. If we don't have reasons to code something extra, then why should we? And it doesn't correlate to the Scratch way of displaying blocks.

blob8108

I'm going to side with roijac here. And as M30W uses Kurt's parser anyhow, I don't think the argument matters (though of course you could write your own if you so wished).

I've nearly finished writing a new parser for Kurt 2, inspired by nXIII's one, that doesn't require excessive parentheses. It's based on the design of the Pratt parser that nXIII linked.

Here's it parsing the script roijac posted:

In [1]: p.stage.parse("""when gf clicked
say "Hello World!"
repeat 10
    move 10 steps
    turn cw 15 degrees
    pen down
    change x by 42
    set foo to 128
    change y by foo
end
think "That's all folks!"
say "BTW: Eat At Joe's!" for 2 secs""")
In [2]: p.stage.scripts[0]
Out[2]: 
kurt.Script([
	kurt.Block('whenGreenFlag'),
	kurt.Block('say:', 'Hello World!'),
	kurt.Block('doRepeat', 10,  [
			kurt.Block('forward:', 10),
			kurt.Block('turnRight:', 15),
			kurt.Block('putPenDown'),
			kurt.Block('changeXposBy:', 42),
			kurt.Block('setVar:to:', 'foo', 128),
			kurt.Block('changeYposBy:', 
				kurt.Block('readVariable', 'foo'),
			),
		]),
	kurt.Block('think:', "That's all folks!"),
	kurt.Block('say:duration:elapsed:from:', "BTW: Eat At Joe's!", 2)])
In [3]: print p.stage.scripts[0].stringify()
when @greenFlag clicked
say 'Hello World!'
repeat 10
	move 10 steps
	turn @turnRight 15 degrees
	pen down
	change x by 42
	set foo to 128
	change y by (foo)
end
think "That's all folks!"
say "BTW: Eat At Joe's!" for 2 secs

Note that the variable “foo” has been defined on the Stage beforehand. Kurt 2 has a built-in way of getting the options to a menu insert, by using Insert.options().

Something more complicated:

In [2]: parsec("set foo to item 2 + 3 * 4 of positions + 10").stringify()
Out[2]: u'set foo to ((item (2 + (3 * 4)) of positions) + 10)'

tosh · slowly becoming a grown-up adult and very confused about it

roijac

blob8108 wrote:
I'm going to side with roijac here. And as M30W uses Kurt's parser anyhow, I don't think the argument matters (though of course you could write your own if you so wished).

I've nearly finished writing a new parser for Kurt 2, inspired by nXIII's one, that doesn't require excessive parentheses. It's based on the design of the Pratt parser that nXIII linked.

Here's it parsing the script roijac posted:
some IPython output...
Note that the variable “foo” has been defined on the Stage beforehand. Kurt 2 has a built-in way of getting the options to a menu insert, by using Insert.options().

Something more complicated:
In [2]: parsec("set foo to item 2 + 3 * 4 of positions + 10").stringify()
Out[2]: u'set foo to ((item (2 + (3 * 4)) of positions) + 10)'

Looks great!

Looked at the code, why are you defining `fits` twice? (text.parser 87/110)

blob8108

roijac wrote:
Looks great!

Thanks!

Looked at the code, why are you defining `fits` twice? (text.parser 87/110)

That's the old block plugin syntax parser from Kurt 1.4. That mistake is probably from when I was hacking it to still work on Kurt 2. I've pushed to Github now, you can see the code for the new parser on the kurt2 branch.

The new parser doesn't quite support all the block plugin syntax (notably the <> syntax for booleans; I couldn't find an easy way to hack it), but it's much nicer to use. Next up, custom blocks…

tosh · slowly becoming a grown-up adult and very confused about it

Magnie

davidkt wrote:
roijac wrote:
We don't init vars inside code in Scratch
Ok… I don't like that either, let's not put it in.
The terminology ‘event’ is not used in Scratch. What's bad about ‘when gf clicked’ like users would expect it?
There is a new category called Event…
Cryptic abbreviations like chg don't help users guess what it means.
If you're an experienced programmer and are in advanced mode, then chances are, you'll know what it means.
Having to indent every line is pretty redundant
AUTOMATIC INDENTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LIKE EVERY LEGITIMATE IDE!!!
Stay close to the Scratch blocks - special casing say(message, secs=-1) sure doesn't make parsing easier.
Well, this will be easier to translate other languages to, say, Java, Python, C, C++, Actionscript, JavaScript, C#, etc… I'm willing to write that code, if you want…
I beg to differ:
when gf clicked
say "Hello World!"
repeat 10
    move 10 steps
    turn cw 15 degrees  // Comments
    pen down
    change X by 42
    set [foo] to 128
    change Y by foo
end
think "That's all folks!"
say "BTW: Eat At Joe's!" for 2 secs
You don't have to use advanced mode…

In general, all the ideas just make it harder to code and read. If you can switch between advanced mode and normal mode, it'll add more you have to code when translating it into another language. Indentation is probably expected to be automatic anyways (at least in a later version). And the only reason to use categories is internally. No point in using it in the actual coding especially with normal Scratch Blocks.

roijac wrote:
Hey, that's a really good idea, actually, and I don't plan on doing it either, so why not take it on yourself? Replace the wx.TextCtrl with something more appropriate for coding. Something like StyledTextControl would be great
Example of use for python here

Thanks, I'll have a look at those and maybe see what I can do.

▴ ▾ ▴ Macbook Pro 13" 2015 i5-5257U 8GB RAM - MacOS Sierra - Vivaldi v1.7 ▴ ▾ ▴
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who know ternary.

roijac

Magnie wrote:
Thanks, I'll have a look at those and maybe see what I can do.

Back into coding again?

Magnie

roijac wrote:
Magnie wrote:
Thanks, I'll have a look at those and maybe see what I can do.
Back into coding again?

I've actually been programming an “MMO” for the last 2 or 3 months.

▴ ▾ ▴ Macbook Pro 13" 2015 i5-5257U 8GB RAM - MacOS Sierra - Vivaldi v1.7 ▴ ▾ ▴
There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary, those who don't, and those who know ternary.

davidkt

Okay, does anyone agree with this syntax:

event GFClick
    say("Hello World!")
    repeat 10
        movesteps(10)
        turncw(15)  // Comments
        pendown
        __xpos__ += 42
        foo = 128
        __ypos__ += foo
    end repeat
    think("That's all folks!")
    say('BTW: Eat At Joe\'s!')
end event

Remember when I looked like this? I still do.

Float, my Scratch 2.0 mod | My (somewhat under-construction) blog

blob8108

davidkt wrote:
Okay, does anyone agree with this syntax: […]

No.

tosh · slowly becoming a grown-up adult and very confused about it

davidkt

blob8108 wrote:
davidkt wrote:
Okay, does anyone agree with this syntax: […]
No.

Not that…

Remember when I looked like this? I still do.

Float, my Scratch 2.0 mod | My (somewhat under-construction) blog

blob8108

davidkt wrote:
blob8108 wrote:
davidkt wrote:
Okay, does anyone agree with this syntax: […]
No.
Not that…

I mean: No, I don't agree with your syntax.

tosh · slowly becoming a grown-up adult and very confused about it

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