WolfCat67 wrote:

muellly wrote:

Nooooooooooo. The discuss option was already the most obscure option. I didn't even know it existed until I saw a link in a curated project. And I didn't even know the full extent of what discuss was for until this year. Making it even more obscure is a bad idea. New Scratchers who need help with scripts that aren't in tips or have a question about Scratch aren't going to know where to look now. New Scratchers who don't know about the forums may try to post comments that were their function on featured projects creating more spam. I don't even see where the discuss is in the footer. Instead of pushing the forums aside you should promote them. Did you even do a poll to see if most people who didn't click the button didn't know they exists instead of them being not interested in them. I also don't see how this promotes the other options. All this appears to do is make the search bar bigger, and I used it even more rarely then the forums. I feel that removing the discuss button is a step back for Scratch, and I am hoping right now that this isn't the beginning of a road of step backs like another site I used to be on because I like to program in Scratch and I hope that updates won't one day take the joy out of it. That site was Roblox.

Hey, look at the bright side.
At least it has “forums” in the name on the link, now. It was confusing with it called “Discuss”, I initially thought it was just a place for parents to talk about how great the program is. Oops.

I guess that is true. However how often do people even read the footer? I'm guessing less than people click on discuss. I didn't even see it there until someone said it was under community. However I still feel that the ST should promote the forums instead of try to hide them even more. Also I didn't even know what discuss meant until I clicked it and realized it was forums.

muellly wrote:

WolfCat67 wrote:

muellly wrote:

-everything else-

Hey, look at the bright side.
At least it has “forums” in the name on the link, now. It was confusing with it called “Discuss”, I initially thought it was just a place for parents to talk about how great the program is. Oops.

I guess that is true. However how often do people even read the footer? I'm guessing less than people click on discuss. I didn't even see it there until someone said it was under community. However I still feel that the ST should promote the forums instead of try to hide them even more. Also I didn't even know what discuss meant until I clicked it and realized it was forums.

again, I totally agree. This update is bad.

I know how to make everyone happy.
Bring back the Discuss bar on the top page, but don't remove Tips! Instead, make the search bar a little smaller to make room. (After all, the search bar is HUGE and just seems to be so big to take up the remaining space you've got there.) Discuss could either be before tips or after tips.
This would work, and would probably satisfy a lot of people. After all, it takes a long time to find the forums anyway when you first start Scratch unless you actually try clicking everything, but putting it in the footer is an even worse idea, because trust me, nobody looks there, except for people trying to link to the CG or Terms of Use in the forums or people trying to find citations for the Scratch Wiki.

I agree with WolfCat67. The search bar could be smaller.

WolfCat67 wrote:

I know how to make everyone happy.
Bring back the Discuss bar on the top page, but don't remove Tips! Instead, make the search bar a little smaller to make room. (After all, the search bar is HUGE and just seems to be so big to take up the remaining space you've got there.) Discuss could either be before tips or after tips.
This would work, and would probably satisfy a lot of people. After all, it takes a long time to find the forums anyway when you first start Scratch unless you actually try clicking everything, but putting it in the footer is an even worse idea, because trust me, nobody looks there, except for people trying to link to the CG or Terms of Use in the forums or people trying to find citations for the Scratch Wiki.

I agree this would be a great idea.

(Wow I got the 60 second rule for the first time.)

Love the new tips page! Definitely going to be a helpful resource for new Scratchers.

That being said, I'm quite disappointed by the removal of the discuss link. Everyone here is obviously aware that the link in the footer is not going to get the same amount of attention as the one in the navigation bar, so there must be a reason for its removal.

If you have something wonderful up your sleeves, like a new and improved discussion system, and want to phase out the current one, I'm all for that. But if there isn't any grand scheme in place that requires the link to be removed, I'd urge you to take a step back and consider re-implementing it. The discussion forums have been a wonderful place for me, and they're how I met so many wonderful people. Just today, I've talked with numerous Scratchers about all sorts of great projects and work being done, and seeing everything that's going on in and around Scratch is fantastic. I would argue that the forums have made a massive positive difference in my life, and I would hate to see that opportunity taken away from others.

Obviously, the forums are a lot to manage. There will always be spam and unhelpful posts, which can be quite a lot of work to clean up. If the forums are being fazed out due to a lack of time or energy, I would be more than happy to help moderate. If taking some time out of my day to moderate the forums meant that new users could continue to discover all of the fantastic things going on through and beyond Scratch, I would consider that to be a really solid investment.

Of course, this is all speculation. Perhaps the ability to discuss on Scratch is not under attack, and something new and incredible is coming. But if the discussion forums are being removed because they're too much effort to maintain, I beg that you think again. There are a huge number of people (myself included) who would be willing to give of their time and energy to keep this fantastic part of the site. Please don't let it go.

Hopefully I'm not reading too much into this.

WolfCat67 wrote:

I know how to make everyone happy.
Bring back the Discuss bar on the top page, but don't remove Tips! Instead, make the search bar a little smaller to make room. (After all, the search bar is HUGE and just seems to be so big to take up the remaining space you've got there.) Discuss could either be before tips or after tips.
This would work, and would probably satisfy a lot of people.

This decision was also made in part because the navigation menu is translated to many other languages, and in some of those languages there was just too much text to fit in the space.

The search bar is flexible in size based on the language you are in. While it may appear extra large in English, this is not always the case. For example, change your language to German and see what happens.

ceebee wrote:

WolfCat67 wrote:

I know how to make everyone happy.
Bring back the Discuss bar on the top page, but don't remove Tips! Instead, make the search bar a little smaller to make room. (After all, the search bar is HUGE and just seems to be so big to take up the remaining space you've got there.) Discuss could either be before tips or after tips.
This would work, and would probably satisfy a lot of people.

This decision was also made in part because the navigation menu is translated to many other languages, and in some of those languages there was just too much text to fit in the space.

The search bar is flexible in size based on the language you are in. While it may appear extra large in English, this is not always the case. For example, change your language to German and see what happens.

I see… But couldn't the text be made to be, I don't know, also flexible based on the language? Such as narrowing it down just a little bit? It wouldn't look too squished up with another button, but maybe make the search bar have a size limit, being around the size of the word “Search” in English x3? I don't know, I just still want to have Discuss back.
(Speaking of which, wow, the Tips page is barely translated. Good luck with that XD)

ceebee wrote:

WolfCat67 wrote:

I know how to make everyone happy.
Bring back the Discuss bar on the top page, but don't remove Tips! Instead, make the search bar a little smaller to make room. (After all, the search bar is HUGE and just seems to be so big to take up the remaining space you've got there.) Discuss could either be before tips or after tips.
This would work, and would probably satisfy a lot of people.

This decision was also made in part because the navigation menu is translated to many other languages, and in some of those languages there was just too much text to fit in the space.

The search bar is flexible in size based on the language you are in. While it may appear extra large in English, this is not always the case. For example, change your language to German and see what happens.

*Tries changing it to all languages that start in G* It really doesn't look that small to me.

muellly wrote:

ceebee wrote:

WolfCat67 wrote:

I know how to make everyone happy.
Bring back the Discuss bar on the top page, but don't remove Tips! Instead, make the search bar a little smaller to make room. (After all, the search bar is HUGE and just seems to be so big to take up the remaining space you've got there.) Discuss could either be before tips or after tips.
This would work, and would probably satisfy a lot of people.

This decision was also made in part because the navigation menu is translated to many other languages, and in some of those languages there was just too much text to fit in the space.

The search bar is flexible in size based on the language you are in. While it may appear extra large in English, this is not always the case. For example, change your language to German and see what happens.

*Tries changing it to all languages that start in G* It really doesn't look that small to me.

German is “Deutsch”.

WolfCat67 wrote:

muellly wrote:

ceebee wrote:

WolfCat67 wrote:

I know how to make everyone happy.
Bring back the Discuss bar on the top page, but don't remove Tips! Instead, make the search bar a little smaller to make room. (After all, the search bar is HUGE and just seems to be so big to take up the remaining space you've got there.) Discuss could either be before tips or after tips.
This would work, and would probably satisfy a lot of people.

This decision was also made in part because the navigation menu is translated to many other languages, and in some of those languages there was just too much text to fit in the space.

The search bar is flexible in size based on the language you are in. While it may appear extra large in English, this is not always the case. For example, change your language to German and see what happens.

*Tries changing it to all languages that start in G* It really doesn't look that small to me.

German is “Deutsch”.

Okay, that is a bit small right now. It will be even smaller with discuss back, but what about when there was help and discuss on the header?

I really don't like the change, so…
#bring_it_back.

I like the new tips section!

Hold on. Why can't the Tips page literally just have a link on the home page on it (but, you know, without the huge header thing introduced on Scratch's 10th or other days), or even a link from Scratch projects themselves? I mean, that'd work and would probably get a lot of clicks, too.

Space isn't even a problem, now, I just realized. They also got rid of “Help”, just to make room for “Tips”. Discuss could've fit. But they removed it. Now this… This is a bad reason behind it. Discuss is extremely helpful to people starting out in Scratch, with all the different helpful forums, so the reason for removing the Discuss tab, to “help people become full-fledged Scratchers”, is not going to improve that, but rather worsen it. I was a terrible Scratcher until I found the Discussion Forums, at which point I knew what to do, learned a bunch of more complex stuff the Tips page isn't teaching you, and all of that. It helped me become a better Scratcher.

Removing it… It just seems like a waste.

WolfCat67 wrote:

Hold on. Why can't the Tips page literally just have a link on the home page on it (but, you know, without the huge header thing introduced on Scratch's 10th or other days), or even a link from Scratch projects themselves? I mean, that'd work and would probably get a lot of clicks, too.

You could also just send an automatic link to every New Scratcher in their message box.

WE'RE STILL GOING STRONG!

Can the “discuss” thing be re-added to the header? It's kinda bothering me a little and I panicked before I found out it can be found at the bottom of the page..

LionHeart70 wrote:

Can the “discuss” thing be re-added to the header? It's kinda bothering me a little and I panicked before I found out it can be found at the bottom of the page..

that will be great!

I've documented this in the Scratch Wiki, now, on the discussion forums article, about how it can no longer be found on the header.

i prefer to have the discussion place in the normal place, thank you very much.