the Limits of Scratch

Wonkymoon8

hi! i think this would be a cool place to discuss the theoretical limits of scratch.
Using pen, it is possible to create full 3d renderings, and insane things have been created. assuming lag isnt an issue, surely, most, if not all 2d games can be made in scratch. this is, theoretically, true with 3d games aswell.
the only limits that would actually cause major problems are the 50 megabyte limit and, arguabaly more devastatingly, the 1/10 of a second limit for cloud variables, aswell as a lack of cloud lists.
PLEASE ADD CLOUD LISTS SCRATCH TEAM PLEanyways, if you can think of any other limits, this is the place, discuss, and… stuff! yeah!

Last edited by Wonkymoon8 (Jan. 27, 2024 22:22:24)

Terminusfinity391

Variables cannot add by one after 9007199254740992, and wait blocks break ~2^1021 seconds after 1970.

Steve0Greatness

Terminusfinity391 wrote:
Variables cannot add by one after 9007199254740992, and wait blocks break ~2^1021 seconds after 1970.

Let me make sure I understand what you're saying.

Variables cannot be greater than 9007199254740992, and wait blocks break after around 1970+2^1021 seconds.

CST1229

(“EHM AKSHUALLY” post time!)

Wonkymoon8 wrote:
(#1)
the only limits that would actually cause major problems are the 50 megabyte limit

The 50 megabyte limit was from 2.0.

Wonkymoon8 wrote:
(#1)
PLEASE ADD CLOUD LISTS SCRATCH TEAM PLE

That's rejected.

Steve0Greatness wrote:
(#3)
Let me make sure I understand what you're saying.

Variables cannot be greater than 9007199254740992, and wait blocks break after around 1970+2^1021 seconds.

Wrong.
Variables *can* be greater than 9007199254740992, it's just that they use floating point numbers, so they get less precise as they go larger. 9007199254740992 is the point at which it becomes less precise than integers, meaning they snap to the closest increment of 2, which means adding 1 won't do anything.
For the wait blocks, I think they literally do mean “wait blocks break ~2^1021 seconds after 1970.”, as in, they stop working at dates higher than ~2^1021 seconds after 1970. (IIRC the wait blocks use the system time for timing.)

atlasaurinko wrote:
(#6)
There can only be 8 cloud variables which each can hold 250 digits. That's a problem with e.g. MMO's.

*10 cloud variables with 256 digits each

Last edited by CST1229 (Jan. 29, 2024 19:03:24)

Steve0Greatness

CST1229 wrote:
Variables *can* be greater than 9007199254740992, it's just that they use floating point numbers, so they get less precise as they go larger. 9007199254740992 is the point at which it becomes less precise than integers, meaning they snap to the closest increment of 2, which means adding 1 won't do anything.
For the wait blocks, I think they literally do mean “wait blocks break ~2^1021 seconds after 1970.”, as in, they stop working at dates higher than ~2^1021 seconds after 1970. (IIRC the wait blocks use the system time for timing.)

Oh, sorry. I was confused by the initial post, I think it I just read it entirely incorrectly.

Also, FYI: the usage of “Wrong.” at the top of the reply makes the post kinda come across as rude. Just thought I'd add that in.

atlasaurinko

Also lists can only hold 200,000 items.
There can only be 8 cloud variables which each can hold 250 digits. That's a problem with e.g. MMO's.

gilbert_given_189

atlasaurinko wrote:
Also lists can only hold 200,000 items.
There can only be 8 cloud variables which each can hold 250 digits. That's a problem with e.g. MMO's.

1. The list length limit is only in Scratch 3.
2. If the Wiki is up to date, the cloud data limit should be 10 cloud variables per project and 256 digits per variable.

atlasaurinko

gilbert_given_189 wrote:
2. If the Wiki is up to date, the cloud data limit should be 10 cloud variables per project and 256 digits per variable.

Ok thanks.

junichiricardo18

ugh my following number stuck in 385…

Randomking11

the fisheye effect breaks at about 3.403e+40

keyboardcatyay

I've managed to create a very unrefined and crude form of Markov chains in Scratch. I never finished it, but I did share it (Currently it just generates nonsense with a few rules of English applied)

HatmanGD

does anyone talk about the clone limit of 300?

HatmanGD

(DISCOVERY time!!!)

Steve0Greatness wrote:
Terminusfinity391 wrote:
Variables cannot add by one after 9007199254740992, and wait blocks break ~2^1021 seconds after 1970.
Let me make sure I understand what you're saying.

Variables cannot be greater than 9007199254740992, and wait blocks break after around 1970+2^1021 seconds.

you can add greater numbers, but now I've discovered that its around the true integer limit is around:

179769313480000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

I will try to make it more precise.

Travis_isaSigma

HatmanGD wrote:
(DISCOVERY time!!!)
Steve0Greatness wrote:
Terminusfinity391 wrote:
Variables cannot add by one after 9007199254740992, and wait blocks break ~2^1021 seconds after 1970.
Let me make sure I understand what you're saying.

Variables cannot be greater than 9007199254740992, and wait blocks break after around 1970+2^1021 seconds.
you can add greater numbers, but now I've discovered that its around the true integer limit is around:
179769313480000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
I will try to make it more precise.

It’s 2^1024

MineTurte

Fun fact: JS uses some system to actually prevent integer limits, however it gets less and less precise the farther over you go. Search it up.

BigNate469

MineTurte wrote:
Fun fact: JS uses some system to actually prevent integer limits, however it gets less and less precise the farther over you go. Search it up.

But it doesn't work indefinitely, and anything larger than Number.MAX_VALUE will just be rounded up to Infinity.

Of course, if you wanted to just represent a number and don't actually care about doing math with it, technically you can have a string that's (2 ^ 28) - 16 characters long (and that's only on 32-bit Chromium browsers; most other browsers support longer). That's enough space to represent just about any number you could want to deal with, especially if you use the Unicode Basic Multilingual Plane to its full extent and represent the number in base 65,536 with scientific notation, this could reach absurdly large values very quickly.

junichiricardo18

STUCK IN 420 AGAIN… ITS THE LIMIT NOW OR NOT…

minhdoesthings

The exact approximation 1.7976931348623157e+308 before I can put anymore number after that.

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