cheddargirl wrote:

BringUpYourPost wrote:

I feel like changing the OP will be much more of a difficult change due to the enormity of neurodivergence. Neurodivergence is a very broad idea. Autism is too but with a lesser extent

Perhaps harder - at least when it comes to a forum post - but if the ongoing sentiment is for April to recognize of all forms of neurodiversity, then it would have to be done this way to avoid conflict down the road. A set of projects on the other hand is easier because then multiple different project focusing on different types of neurodiversity can be featured over different days. Featuring stuff provides more creative way to celebrate stuff, and prevents further conflict of interest if a singular month could be used for more than one celebration.

I can't personally see meaningful conflict happening down the road over April not recognising all forms of neurodiversity, since autism and neurodiversity concepts work together, and advocacy in these movements is often led by the same people (autistic people advocating for neurodiversity awareness, and neurodivergent people advocating for autism acceptance). an example of this is me. I have other examples too though so don't quote me on this lol /j.
I think it's important that Autism is recognised as its own neurotype (focusing here on autistic people's experiences) as well as neurodiversity being celebrated on a different occasion for its own reasons relating to why neurodiversity is important (and focusing less there on why individual neurotypes are important). some other neurotypes have their own months too, for example, October is ADHD Awareness Month, so those are also good times to focus on them.

-Squiggle wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

BringUpYourPost wrote:

I feel like changing the OP will be much more of a difficult change due to the enormity of neurodivergence. Neurodivergence is a very broad idea. Autism is too but with a lesser extent

Perhaps harder - at least when it comes to a forum post - but if the ongoing sentiment is for April to recognize of all forms of neurodiversity, then it would have to be done this way to avoid conflict down the road. A set of projects on the other hand is easier because then multiple different project focusing on different types of neurodiversity can be featured over different days. Featuring stuff provides more creative way to celebrate stuff, and prevents further conflict of interest if a singular month could be used for more than one celebration.

I can't personally see meaningful conflict happening down the road over April not recognising all forms of neurodiversity, since autism and neurodiversity concepts work together, and advocacy in these movements is often led by the same people (autistic people advocating for neurodiversity awareness, and neurodivergent people advocating for autism acceptance). an example of this is me. I have other examples too though so don't quote me on this lol /j.
I think it's important that Autism is recognised as its own neurotype (focusing here on autistic people's experiences) as well as neurodiversity being celebrated on a different occasion for its own reasons relating to why neurodiversity is important (and focusing less there on why individual neurotypes are important). some other neurotypes have their own months too, for example, October is ADHD Awareness Month, so those are also good times to focus on them.

If the consensus is for April is be focused solely on autism for this reason, then yes, it would be better to separate it (oddly, October is also for OCD, but that's another thing to tackle if the overall suggestion goes back in scope to focusing on autism specifically).

i believe october is also for dyslexia but i may be wrong

cheddargirl wrote:

^ This more or less captures the sentiment on how we want to celebrate stuff around here - It's why were hesitant to celebrate stuff via forum post in general, as well as why featured projects and studio are more preferred. A middle ground option would be featured projects with comments shut off (which has been done in the past), though usually this would mean the engagement would need to be by some other means (usually a high remixability factor). And also for people to create said project - sadly, still have not yet seen people post project examples in this thread, or the main proposal area, though.

would you (or the Scratch Team in general) have a particular preference or reason to feature a project over a studio? or is it just kinda random?
I know of a couple studios that I believe would serve as a good way to celebrate Autism Month if they were featured, but I haven't been focusing on finding or creating particular projects that would be suitable for being featured. I don't want that to potentially be the reason why nothing happens for Autism Month.
even when you have ideas for things, it's incredibly difficult to know what sort of material would work best for the Scratch Team, or if there are any problems with something that mean it couldn't be used/featured when it would be great otherwise, as you don't really get any two-way feedback on ideas when you are a Scratcher other than nothing seeming to happen about them.

Rey_venclaw wrote:

i believe october is also for dyslexia but i may be wrong

yeah October seems to be for a lot of different things haha

hydrofungus wrote:

Za-Chary wrote:

undeterminstic wrote:

. Using a thread promoting project/studio creation around that topic deflects that harassment.

Where is the part where she said "groups that face harassment deserve a forum post"?

Oh yeah *ahem* i would like someone to answer zuh-cherry’s question please, we can’t make an argument surrounding an unclear source

People be avoiding this core question

undeterminstic wrote:

Ok well then we can make more forum posts.

If that's the case, then it has to be equal. For it to be equal, it's either all minority groups (saying this as someone who's part of a minority group) get a forum post equally, or no one gets a forum post at all.

No thanks. I don't want my mental disorder to be normalised and glorified in this manner. Accepted, sure, but we don't pretend someone with no legs just has a different locotype.

-Squiggle wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

^ This more or less captures the sentiment on how we want to celebrate stuff around here - It's why were hesitant to celebrate stuff via forum post in general, as well as why featured projects and studio are more preferred. A middle ground option would be featured projects with comments shut off (which has been done in the past), though usually this would mean the engagement would need to be by some other means (usually a high remixability factor). And also for people to create said project - sadly, still have not yet seen people post project examples in this thread, or the main proposal area, though.

would you (or the Scratch Team in general) have a particular preference or reason to feature a project over a studio? or is it just kinda random?
I know of a couple studios that I believe would serve as a good way to celebrate Autism Month if they were featured, but I haven't been focusing on finding or creating particular projects that would be suitable for being featured. I don't want that to potentially be the reason why nothing happens for Autism Month.
even when you have ideas for things, it's incredibly difficult to know what sort of material would work best for the Scratch Team, or if there are any problems with something that mean it couldn't be used/featured when it would be great otherwise, as you don't really get any two-way feedback on ideas when you are a Scratcher other than nothing seeming to happen about them.

Could be either project or studio. For the studio, one of our primary criterias is that it would have to be an active studio where the studio host and manager is active. Projects, it doesn't have to be (though that creates extra work on the Scratch Team keeping an eye on the content) but what does and doesn't get featured is nuanced and a bit hard to describe briefly, though a lot of it depends on the project design (e.g. a person might have a better shot at being featured, if the project, say, was a slideshow of famous people that had autism than a slideshow of autism itself since the former hits on a lot of factors like higher creativity and overall diversity).

Aidanthedumm wrote:

BringUpYourPost wrote:

hydrofungus wrote:

BringUpYourPost wrote:

A forum post is needed as autistic people might face harrasement. ]

Oh my goodness gracious
We need a post for every country, religion, disabilities, fandoms, genders, orientations, etc. because they might face harassment!!!11!!1!!

I’m not autistic (i don’t know i haven’t and will probably never get a diagnosis) so this may be based a bit ☠️
If they receive harassment, the report button exists, and the community will beat up that guy. Trust me
And doesn’t it fall under a line in the CGs like upper posts mentioned?

But many autistic people do face harrasement. And according to cheddargirl's post, groups that face harrasement deserve a forum post.

I am a Chinese person (racially/ ethnically, but I am from Malaysia) who faced multiple instances of racism or borderline racism on Scratch.
Where is my forum post then.

You aren't part of a group of Scratchers that need to be accepted, though. I am from Singapore (right next to Malaysia), and I can safely say that borderline racism in your specific situation can be quite harmful towards yourself.

Elijah999999 wrote:

(I hardly know anything about autism so please correct me if I make a mistake.)

My opinion is that, if somebody really is enough of a troll to harass people because their mind works differently, (and these trolls exist, sadly,) then there is more wrong with them that a simple forum post would fix.

Most trolls are either full time trolls (will be blocked pretty quickly) or ban speedrunners (will be blocked even faster), and the report button and Contact Us exist.

-Squiggle wrote:

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

“Neurodiversity” may be a confusing word for 7 year olds. I think there could be a simpler word without calling out persons with a specific condition. Or maybe the forum post should be made specifically calling out people of different conditions and telling people to be nice to them?

I don't think “neurodiversity” would be confusing for 7 year olds if it was explained correctly. at least, I don't think it would be more confusing than terms like LGBTQIA+. it's just an umbrella term, it's just “neuro” (brain) and “diversity” joined together. “lots of different brains”.

When I was seven, I didn't know what LGBTQ+ was, could not wrap my head around the concept of mental illnesses (not referring to autism) and once my mother had to spend 15 minutes explaining to me what the word “confused” was. Are you sure about that?

-Squiggle wrote:

With that being said, support, as long as:
-It's not just autistic people that have a forum post for acceptance (to a certain extent, not like @hydrofungus's example)
-It is called “Autism Awareness, not ”Autism Acceptance" (read this post)
-Scratch Team monitors the topic and is ready to close it when things get heated

do you mean “acceptance” not “awareness”? that post explains why acceptance should be used instead of awareness.

Yes, that was my error.

-Squiggle wrote:

-Scratch Team monitors the topic and is ready to close it when things get heated

could this apply to other forms of celebration aside from a forum post? eg. rather than a forum announcement, if the Scratch Team created an announcement project, or featured a studio to celebrate autism month, could they more closely monitor the comments there and close comments when things get heated? wouldn't this solve some of the problems mentioned earlier with having a project/studio, making that a potentially better option than a forum announcement?

Something similar happens to other stickies like this one and this one.

-Squiggle wrote:

I am an autistic person, last year I was manager of a studio for Autism Awareness / Acceptance Month that got featured during April.
there was a lot of harassment, and most, of if not all of, the managers of this studio had ableist trolls come directly to our profiles and harass us. we were all very active in the studio for the entire time it was featured, and reported things immediately after seeing them. but using the report button does not get rid of the fact it happened, and it is hard to cope with regardless of how it is dealt with after seeing it.
(I have also faced ableist trolling and harassment just for inviting people to my own neurodiversity-related studios, which were never featured.)

however, this doesn't mean I wouldn't want a studio to be featured again for this year.
I absolutely loved being part of last year's studio and have memories of overwhelming excitement, joy and pure happiness from it. the trolling and disrespectful comments are much less significant to me than the happiness I felt and the impact I was able to see we made (so many supportive comments and projects), because my reality as an autistic person is I have to face that same disrespect no matter what I do in life, and making a difference feels so worth it, especially in a place where I already know I am safe and included like Scratch.
I think a featured studio/project is the best way to raise awareness and acceptance as it is more engaging than a forum post and raises the voices & perspectives of autistic members of the Scratch community rather than just being left to the Scratch Team. maybe there are ways we could be supported with this without the Scratch team taking charge of hosting an event completely?

I know how it feels to be part of such a community. I wouldn't say they were “trolls” though, just more of mean people. My dream for this is that this can turn into a community, one where Scratchers can come together to discuss without posts like “just testing out my new signature” or “how do I post on scratch”, both posts that I have seen in stickies. Maybe it can be a non-sticky TIMAC topic with the Scratch Team looking through it every 1-2 days/reports prioritised for that topic?
(I had to manually edit the BBCode because it kept breaking and eventually cut out a lot of quotes)

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

You aren't part of a group of Scratchers that need to be accepted, though. I am from Singapore (right next to Malaysia), and I can safely say that borderline racism in your specific situation can be quite harmful towards yourself.

Racism happens when people do not accept others. If people are being racist to me that means that they do not accept me. Not sure what you mean by “ I don't need to be accepted”. Also, read my other opinion.

Aidanthedumm wrote:

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

You aren't part of a group of Scratchers that need to be accepted, though. I am from Singapore (right next to Malaysia), and I can safely say that borderline racism in your specific situation can be quite harmful towards yourself.

Racism happens when people do not accept others. If people are being racist to me that means that they do not accept me. Not sure what you mean by “ I don't need to be accepted”. Also, read my other opinion.

Sorry if I phrased it wrongly, but what I was trying to say is that it might not be as severe as other groups.

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

Aidanthedumm wrote:

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

You aren't part of a group of Scratchers that need to be accepted, though. I am from Singapore (right next to Malaysia), and I can safely say that borderline racism in your specific situation can be quite harmful towards yourself.

Racism happens when people do not accept others. If people are being racist to me that means that they do not accept me. Not sure what you mean by “ I don't need to be accepted”. Also, read my other opinion.

Sorry if I phrased it wrongly, but what I was trying to say is that it might not be as severe as other groups.

Not trying to start a fight but “might not be as severe” is just beyond wrong. There's even like a whole article on Wikipedia talking about Anti-Chinese racism and sentiment, and there are even articles talking about the severity of it in Malaysia. So it is pretty severe, especially in American regions after the boom of Covid -19.

Aidanthedumm wrote:

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

Aidanthedumm wrote:

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

You aren't part of a group of Scratchers that need to be accepted, though. I am from Singapore (right next to Malaysia), and I can safely say that borderline racism in your specific situation can be quite harmful towards yourself.

Racism happens when people do not accept others. If people are being racist to me that means that they do not accept me. Not sure what you mean by “ I don't need to be accepted”. Also, read my other opinion.

Sorry if I phrased it wrongly, but what I was trying to say is that it might not be as severe as other groups.

Not trying to start a fight but “might not be as severe” is just beyond wrong. There's even like a whole article on Wikipedia talking about Anti-Chinese racism and sentiment, and there are even articles talking about the severity of it in Malaysia. So it is pretty severe, especially in American regions after the boom of Covid -19.

But you aren't American, are you? Debating the severity of issues in America deserves a whole topic to its own…
i am this close to deleting that section from my post

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

But you aren't American, are you? Debating the severity of issues in America deserves a whole topic to its own…
i am this close to deleting that section from my post

I might not be American, but during the Covid days of 2020-2021 I've seen enough news and footage of people who are in America who will just beat up anyone that looks Chinese, blame them for Covid, commit violent hate crimes in Chinatown etc. Still hold an impact on how severe it is and as a Chinese person I still think about it till this day.

Aidanthedumm wrote:

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

But you aren't American, are you? Debating the severity of issues in America deserves a whole topic to its own…
i am this close to deleting that section from my post

I might not be American, but during the Covid days of 2020-2021 I've seen enough news and footage of people who are in America who will just beat up anyone that looks Chinese, blame them for Covid, commit violent hate crimes in Chinatown etc. Still hold an impact on how severe it is and as a Chinese person I still think about it till this day.

I'm pretty sure it stopped. Besides, I think this is getting a little off-topic.

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

Aidanthedumm wrote:

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

But you aren't American, are you? Debating the severity of issues in America deserves a whole topic to its own…
i am this close to deleting that section from my post

I might not be American, but during the Covid days of 2020-2021 I've seen enough news and footage of people who are in America who will just beat up anyone that looks Chinese, blame them for Covid, commit violent hate crimes in Chinatown etc. Still hold an impact on how severe it is and as a Chinese person I still think about it till this day.

I'm pretty sure it stopped. Besides, I think this is getting a little off-topic.

My point in the end is that it should be equal for all minorities if they want to make a forum post. Also you seem to be pretty good at denying serious issues when you seem to keep demanding me for further explanation and debates, but after explaining you sweep it off like it's nothing.

bump this post

can we please avoid continuing this who-has-it-worse debate?
autistic people face ableism. chinese people face racism and xenophobia (this did not start just because of covid and it definitely hasn’t ended). and many other groups are discriminated against in ways similar to and different from these.
it’s important that we as a society work to eliminate all these forms of discrimination and dismantle the systems that perpetuate them. it doesn’t matter who has it “worse” and there’s no metric to measure that by anyway. what matters is that we all educate ourselves about our own identity and the identities of others and work to be as inclusive and respectful of everyone as we can.
also a friendly reminder that fighting for the rights of one group does not take away rights from other groups and actually makes things better for everyone!

Aidanthedumm wrote:

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

Aidanthedumm wrote:

TheUltimateHoodie wrote:

But you aren't American, are you? Debating the severity of issues in America deserves a whole topic to its own…
i am this close to deleting that section from my post

I might not be American, but during the Covid days of 2020-2021 I've seen enough news and footage of people who are in America who will just beat up anyone that looks Chinese, blame them for Covid, commit violent hate crimes in Chinatown etc. Still hold an impact on how severe it is and as a Chinese person I still think about it till this day.

I'm pretty sure it stopped. Besides, I think this is getting a little off-topic.

My point in the end is that it should be equal for all minorities if they want to make a forum post. Also you seem to be pretty good at denying serious issues when you seem to keep demanding me for further explanation and debates, but after explaining you sweep it off like it's nothing.

Can you give me an example of that?