Variables To Represent Vectors

CodeMaster_TheGreat

I wanted to create a 3d raytracer but it's quite annoying to have :

Direction.X
Direction.Y
Direction.Z
Ray Position.X
Ray Position.Y
Ray Position.Z
Object Position.X
Object Position.Y
Object Position.Z
Object Type
Object Color.Red
Object Color.Blue
Object Color.Green
Other Object Shape Parameters
Emmision Color.Red
Emmision Color.Blue
Emmision Color.Green
Emmision Strength
Emmited Light.Red
Emmited Light. Blue
Emmited Light.Green

And Remember these all have to be Different Variables or Lists
So my suggestion is to have an option for variables to hold a fixed number of values like 2 or 3 so that You can represent things like velocities and directions in one variable and to have multi dimensional lists so that a list of colors in RGB can be represented together.
These changes would make my project into using only:

Direction
Ray Position
Object Position
Object Type
Object Color
Other Object Shape Parameters
Emission Color
Emission Strength
Emitted Light

As you can see this makes things much easier to manage

hydrofungus

But would this be too advanced for Scratch? Looks like that for me.

CodeMaster_TheGreat

I think it would make it easier for new comers
There is a way to make multi dimensional lists in scratch but it is very complicated. You also than have to deal with looping etc. so multi dimensional lists are going to make it easier for people to understand
Also, vectors are much more convenient than lists. So they should make designing complex projects easier

hydrofungus

CodeMaster_TheGreat wrote:
I think it would make it easier for new comers
There is a way to make multi dimensional lists in scratch but it is very complicated. You also than have to deal with looping etc. so multi dimensional lists are going to make it easier for people to understand
Also, vectors are much more convenient than lists. So they should make designing complex projects easier

What kind of new comers would make a 3D project?

CodeMaster_TheGreat

No, which newcomer would know how to make a 2d list
I once tried to make sudoku on scratch. It took me twice as much time as it should have because I couldnt figure out how to make a 2d list and how to stop looping

hydrofungus

CodeMaster_TheGreat wrote:
No, which newcomer would know how to make a 2d list
I once tried to make sudoku on scratch. It took me twice as much time as it should have because I couldnt figure out how to make a 2d list and how to stop looping

…
I don’t really think these blocks have much use. It would be very confusing for a lot of people, while it only helps a few.

CodeMaster_TheGreat

CodeMaster_TheGreat

That was all I wanted

medians

1. 2D lists aren't in Scratch and are rejected to add basically due to them being too complex. And same for 3D (or you could just use a list with 2 or 3 values).
2. You can categorize blocks like this:

block ::category

Ex:

hello ::looks

For More Blocks, and custom block arguments, it should be ::custom and ::custom-arg. You can use a grey color by putting grey as the category.

WindowsMeRules2000

CodeMaster_TheGreat wrote:
I wanted to create a 3d raytracer but it's quite annoying to have :
Direction.X
Direction.Y
Direction.Z
Ray Position.X
Ray Position.Y
Ray Position.Z
Object Position.X
Object Position.Y
Object Position.Z
Object Type
Object Color.Red
Object Color.Blue
Object Color.Green
Other Object Shape Parameters
Emmision Color.Red
Emmision Color.Blue
Emmision Color.Green
Emmision Strength
Emmited Light.Red
Emmited Light. Blue
Emmited Light.Green

And Remember these all have to be Different Variables or Lists
So my suggestion is to have an option for variables to hold a fixed number of values like 2 or 3 so that You can represent things like velocities and directions in one variable and to have multi dimensional lists so that a list of colors in RGB can be represented together.
These changes would make my project into using only:
Direction
Ray Position
Object Position
Object Type
Object Color
Other Object Shape Parameters
Emission Color
Emission Strength
Emitted Light
As you can see this makes things much easier to manage

No support, too complicated

Zydrolic

(removed — i can english)

Last edited by Zydrolic (Sept. 11, 2023 16:40:41)

GIitchInTheMatrix

Zydrolic wrote:
* 3D Scratch features are rejected, as far as I can see this is a 3D suggestion.
The Official List of Rejected Suggestions, Top Sticky by Za-Chary wrote:
1.7 3D Scratch
This block, and others, could be used with a z-axis in the project stage to make it easier to create 3D projects. However, Scratch is a language that is designed to be as easy as possible for beginners to learn. The purpose of Scratch is to teach beginners basic programming concepts, which is best accomplished with a 2D interface. Adding a 3D interface could make Scratch more difficult to learn and teach. This suggestion also includes the possibility for virtual-reality “Scratch VR” features, where a lot of the same difficulties come up; for more information, see this post.

For those who are interested, it may be worth checking out Beetle Blocks or CreatiCode. They are block-based programming languages similar to the Scratch editor, but with 3D features. There is another similar program to Scratch that contains block programming with 3D features, called Starlogo TNG.
* I may be wrong. Anyway, TOLoRS can be viewed here.

They aren’t suggesting 3d, they’re suggesting essentially a new type of variable.
-Chloe

cookieclickerer33

Snap has this, kind of it’s really just first class lists. but snap’s list system is completely different to scratches due to that making this extremely simple to code in for them

On the other hand adding this to scratch would require a rework of the entire list system to accommodate them now being first class data types (this would involve removing the “make a list” button too) as well as making lists even more complex to understand..

In order to get around this not much can be done other than adding a block that splits a value from a text and then putting the text in between the 2 numbers

Also this would add tables (lists of lists) that’s rejected

IndexErrorException

I mean it's not to bad to implement vectors using tables, but yes a built in vector would be nice.

At least 2d arrays are easy to implement in Scratch, and further dimensions are definitely possible.

The issue is this suggestion is quite over the head of most Scratchers who come here to talk and do mostly art based projects.

mcsquaggle

no support. i know most* of them but i dont know all of them i think they would be really confusing in general
*i do roblox studio witch have like.. Vector3 if that what you talk about

medians

Actually, would lists or this help?
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/37185/
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/58420/

PaperMarioFan2022

medians wrote:
Actually, would lists or this help?
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/37185/
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/58420/

I think those would help contribute to this suggestion. They also look pretty simple even though I don’t work with variables much.

gdfsgdfsgdfg

just make variables yourself

-Valtren-

Isn't multidimensional lists rejected?

TOLORS wrote:
1.6 2D lists
2D lists, also known as 2D arrays, nested lists, or matrices, are a type of data structure that allows you to put an entire list as an element of another list; that is, it allows you to put lists inside of lists. These sorts of data structures are used widely in other programming languages.

This block, and others, would allow you to create 2D lists to store information, sort of like a table. However, this is too complicated for what is supposed to be an introductory programming language. In addition, there are workarounds possible by using an ordinary list and an indexing function. For those who are interested, it may be worth checking out Snap!. It is a block-based programming language designed for more experienced programmers and has more advanced data structures than Scratch does.

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