Conilingua (Studio Language)

randomguyboi

Let’s make a studio language (this has already been done but whatever we’re doing it again)
I’ll set out a few goals.
1) We will use the plain Latin alphabet only, and there will be one letter per phoneme.
2) Every word must be easy to say (e.g. no CCCVCCCC words, I’m looking at you strengths.)
3) We should be able to express what we want to anybody understanding the language in as few words as possible, while still having separate words for completely different aspects
4) The language should be easy-ish to learn, with very few hard and rare sounds
5) There should be room for variation (e.g. no dental-alveolar or velar-uvular distinctions)
6) Very few extremely long words.

Those are the goals of the language.
I’ll edit this post as we add and take away stuff from this language.
Phonology & Romanization:
a-a~æ~ɑ~ɐ~ɒ
b-b
c-tʃ~ʃ
d-d
e-e~ø~ɛ~ə
f-f~v
g-g
h-h
i-i~y~ɪ~ʏ
k-k
l-l~ɫ~ʟ
m-m
n-n
o-o~ɔ~ʌ
p-p
q-kʷ
r-whatever rhotic
s-s~ts
t-t
u-ʉ̟~u~ʊ~ʊ̈
v/w-w~ʋ
x-x~ɣ~kʰ
y/j-j
z-z~dz~dʒ~ʒ

<v> is only used in loanwords where it was used
<j> is used when /j/ is in front of a vowel. Otherwise, you use <y>

Phonotactics:
Vowels from different syllables may not be next to each other in pronunciation (e.g. no <aei> (suggestion from @mybearworld)
Vowels that are the same from different syllables, when next to each other, merge into long vowels. This merged syllable still counts as two syllables, however, and a triple-long or quadruple-long vowel cannot exist.
Diphthongs are allowed. The diphthongs allowed are: <ai, ao, ia, io, oa, oi, oe, ou, ue, ua, ea, ei, eo, eu>
no /w/ or /j/ in the onset.
If three consecutive syllables have the same vowel, the third gets deleted. If four consecutive syllables have the same vowel, however, every other vowel gets changed to the next one on this list:i/u>o>e>a>u
Grammar:
-please recommend more stuff here-
Languages we can borrow from:

English
Spanish
French
German
Russian
Irish
Mandarin Chinese
Japanese
Hindi
Icelandic
Latin
Greek
Sanskrit
Proto-Germanic
Proto-Celtic
Old Church Slavonic (if you can’t find anything on it just pretend OCS is Bulgarian and roll with it)
Specifically evolved PIE words

Some Words:

lingua- language
coniz - common
anam - name
fingan - thing
merogis - border
wesan - to be, adjectival marker, state marker, expression of an adjective or state
zale - to go (to), to travel (to), to transfer between two things, to transform into
kanika - container, can, box, to contain
ates- front
medio - middle
kulej -  back
eja - yes, on 
ne - no, zero, off 
pars - a part of, a fraction 
unu - one 
deo - two 
tria - three
caher - four
kuugej - five
ces - six
sejou - seven
asta - eight
cejou - nine 
teg - ten
unlifet - eleven
dekana - twelve
triaces - 18
caherces - 24
kuuces - 30
nif - 36
cesnif - 216
fue - a few
bahu - many, a lot
gan(m) - person
roi - royal (any royal)
ketin - small, young
gata - large, old
brili - bright
sene - hot
gela - temperate
mena - cold
jul - celestial body
up - up
downe - down
rit - right
lifet - left
toles - the, but only used when the thing being described is either: a) not the subject or topic of the discussion, but still definite or b) being highlighted for emphasis
qe - and
qis - who, what (who is also qos tewtex if more specificity is required)
qos - which
qid - why
qija - because
qeve - or
qesi - if
fol - accusative
fau - dative
fejin - genitive
fetwoko - ablative
fepi - adessive (at/by)
feduken - pertingent and locative cases 
feto - allative & illative (to, into, onto)
And some more words:
tewtex - a group of people, a nation, also 1 person but only in questions 
ped - foot, end
man - hand
cap - head, beginning, title, heading
pedov - walk 
manov - climb
capov - nod
nou - now
pre - before, earlier
poc - after, later
omninou - time
naso - dawn, early morning
neyta - day
nuno - dusk, evening
nekto - night
More coming soon

and affixes, sorted by the position they are in the word (e.g. prefixes before infixes or circumfixes before suffixes)

a(n)- - subjunctive/indefinte
med- - middle
omni- - all
-(e)mi - first person
-(e)tu - second person
-(e)ba - third person masculine
-(aw)ti - third person feminine
-(o)da - third person nueter
-(u)k - third person inanimate
-ren - a suffix that indicates that the number applies to the pronoun on the word after the number rather than the object itself.
-exian - basically our version of "-illion"
-mas - male
-dej - female
-neqos - neuter
-of - thing being possessed
-y - adjectival suffix, used exactly how it is in English.
-go - adverbial suffix, for verbs or adjectives to adverbs. 
-menet - process

Last edited by randomguyboi (June 1, 2022 00:48:56)

Konserverad_gran

randomguyboi wrote:
3) We should be able to express what we want to anybody understanding the language in as few words as possible.

So, hyperpolysynthesis then? 1 word per paragraph?

randomguyboi

Konserverad_gran wrote:
randomguyboi wrote:
3) We should be able to express what we want to anybody understanding the language in as few words as possible.

So, hyperpolysynthesis then? 1 word per paragraph?

I feel like hyperpolysynthesis would probably make the language a bit harder to learn or say. I’ll change it to where it’s a bit clearer what I meant.

UnbiasedBrigade

randomguyboi wrote:
1) We will use the plain Latin alphabet only, and there will be one letter per phoneme.
2) Every word must be easy to say (e.g. no CCCVCCCC words, I’m looking at you strengths.)
3) We should be able to express what we want to anybody understanding the language in as few words as possible, while still having separate words for completely different aspects
4) The language should be easy-ish to learn, with very few hard and rare sounds
5) There should be room for variation (e.g. no dental-alveolar or velar-uvular distinctions)
6) Very few extremely long words.

My thoughts:
1) could we use some unused punctuation marks and/or other symbols as graphemes? (i.e. ~ | \ _ ^ # % &)
2) Good idea.
3) So, preferably three words per transitive sentence, etc.?
4) *sighs* Okay then, no ….
5) True
6) Well, I guess we won't need to type “pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis”, will we?

Also, could we possibly have some a posteriori words, just for the sake of “easy to learn”?

randomguyboi

UnbiasedBrigade wrote:
randomguyboi wrote:
-snip-
My thoughts:
1) could we use some unused punctuation marks and/or other symbols as graphemes? (i.e. ~ | \ _ ^ # % &)
2) Good idea.
3) So, preferably three words per transitive sentence, etc.?
4) *sighs* Okay then, no ….
5) True
6) Well, I guess we won't need to type “pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis”, will we?

Also, could we possibly have some a posteriori words, just for the sake of “easy to learn”?

1) Sure, but we shouldn’t depend on them. We might use them as shorthands (such as & and /, and how they’re currently used)
3) This sort of works, but for more advanced stuff (like pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis), we’d need more words. In practical speaking, however, most sentences would be only three words.
4)It depends, and ɬ could easily be used as an allophone of a sequence like /zl/. These goals apply to the beginning of a language, but language can quickly evolve.
6)We won’t type it as one word.
7) I’m thinking that most words should be a posteriori words, but to proto-languages and languages like Latin, Ancient Greek, and Sanskrit, so we can have a varied pool of languages to choose from, and that all the words will feel sort of related, but sort of different, which I think is a good trait for a mini-auxlang to have.

Last edited by randomguyboi (Nov. 30, 2021 22:34:38)

randomguyboi

Alright, most people speak an Indo-European language as their mother tongue, so if we’re going to aim something at understandability for people in this studio it might as well be Eurocentric. I don’t really like it, but the fact that a sound is completely absent in Sub-Saharan languages shouldn’t mean that we’re barred from using it.

So, I’ll be looking at only Indo-European languages for the sounds. And I’ll include a couple sounds that are really easy to pronounce from elsewhere. Deal? Deal.
At least for the consonants.

Last edited by randomguyboi (Nov. 30, 2021 22:33:21)

Canelo--

…This is really weird to ask, but can you merge this into https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/555728/?page=4? It's the previous attempt which just got revived and I'd like to build your changes into it.

7) I’m thinking that most words should be a posteriori words, but to proto-languages and languages like Latin, Ancient Greek, and Sanskrit, so we can have a varied pool of languages to choose from, and that all the words will feel sort of related, but sort of different, which I think is a good trait for a mini-auxlang to have.

This especially! Conlang #1 is mainly a priori (and I suggested it), but I've kind of soured.

(If we're not merging, can I join?)

Canelo--

Phonology copy/paste from the studio!

randomguyboi wrote:
I have a new phonology for the studio language. Thoughts?: a-a~æ~ɑ~ɐ~ɒ, b-b, c-tʃ~ts, d-d, e-e~ø~ɛ~ə, f-f~v, g-g, h-h, i-i~y~ɪ~ʏ, k-k, l-l~ɫ, m-m, n-n, o-o~oʊ~ɔ~ʌ, p-p, q-kʷ~x, r-whatever rhotic, s-s~ʃ, t-t, u-ʉ̟~u~ʊ~ʊ̈, w-w~ʋ, x-x~ɣ~kʰ, y-j, z-z~dz~dʒ~ʒ. v and j are not used.

randomguyboi

Canelo-- wrote:
Phonology copy/paste from the studio!

randomguyboi wrote:
I have a new phonology for the studio language. Thoughts?: a-a~æ~ɑ~ɐ~ɒ, b-b, c-tʃ~ts, d-d, e-e~ø~ɛ~ə, f-f~v, g-g, h-h, i-i~y~ɪ~ʏ, k-k, l-l~ɫ, m-m, n-n, o-o~oʊ~ɔ~ʌ, p-p, q-kʷ~x, r-whatever rhotic, s-s~ʃ, t-t, u-ʉ̟~u~ʊ~ʊ̈, w-w~ʋ, x-x~ɣ~kʰ, y-j, z-z~dz~dʒ~ʒ. v and j are not used.

Phonology officialized.

Canelo-- wrote:
…This is really weird to ask, but can you merge this into https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/555728/?page=4? It's the previous attempt which just got revived and I'd like to build your changes into it.

7) I’m thinking that most words should be a posteriori words, but to proto-languages and languages like Latin, Ancient Greek, and Sanskrit, so we can have a varied pool of languages to choose from, and that all the words will feel sort of related, but sort of different, which I think is a good trait for a mini-auxlang to have.
This especially! Conlang #1 is mainly a priori (and I suggested it), but I've kind of soured.

(If we're not merging, can I join?)

You can always join! This isn’t like some organization or something.

UnbiasedBrigade

randomguyboi wrote:
Alright, most people speak an Indo-European language as their mother tongue, so if we’re going to aim something at understandability for people in this studio it might as well be Eurocentric. I don’t really like it, but the fact that a sound is completely absent in Sub-Saharan languages shouldn’t mean that we’re barred from using it.

I'm a fluent bilingual in English and Hindi, one from either side of the Indo-European family tree, so I really appreciate the phoneme, since Hindi has no distinction between <व> and <व> ; however, I just found one mistake in your phonology: <q> and <x> can both be pronounced . Also, if you have <c> as different from <s> , why not have *<j> be different from <z> . It doesn't quite make sense to me to have one distinction and not the other. (I mean, in Hindi, they are semi-seperate phonemes: they're pronounced and written differently even though they technically don't contrast, as /z/ only exists in borrowings)

randomguyboi

UnbiasedBrigade wrote:
randomguyboi wrote:
Alright, most people speak an Indo-European language as their mother tongue, so if we’re going to aim something at understandability for people in this studio it might as well be Eurocentric. I don’t really like it, but the fact that a sound is completely absent in Sub-Saharan languages shouldn’t mean that we’re barred from using it.

I'm a fluent bilingual in English and Hindi, one from either side of the Indo-European family tree, so I really appreciate the phoneme, since Hindi has no distinction between <व> and <व> ; however, I just found one mistake in your phonology: <q> and <x> can both be pronounced . Also, if you have <c> as different from <s> , why not have *<j> be different from <z> . It doesn't quite make sense to me to have one distinction and not the other. (I mean, in Hindi, they are semi-seperate phonemes: they're pronounced and written differently even though they technically don't contrast, as /z/ only exists in borrowings)

Alright, I’ll remove the /x/ pronunciation of q. Also, <c>’s sound is a bit more common than <z>’s affricattal sounds (yes I coined that word and I will forever use it), and there’s also few times where there is no z-ʒ-dʒ distinction, and seeing that dz is pretty much a cross between dʒ and z, which are both the same sound, I included it as well. There is usually a s-tʃ distinction, and you have to draw the line somewhere, so I happened to draw it between the fricatives and the affricates. I’ll go ahead and adjust it to where it’s a place distinction, not a manner distinction.

I’ll also go ahead and allow for some different spellings of the same words, and those letters will just be variants of each other in the writing script.

Last edited by randomguyboi (Dec. 1, 2021 21:40:13)

mybearworld

randomguyboi wrote:
l-l~ɫ

Why not also allow /ʟ/?

randomguyboi wrote:
q-kʷ

Why /kʷ/? We also have /kw/ <kw>, and I have no idea how to differentiate /kw/ from /kʷ/…

randomguyboi wrote:
Phonotactics:
(C)V(N)
-please recommend more stuff here-

“Two vowels from too different syllables can't cluster, in order to avoid something like aei being a word” (suggestion)

randomguyboi

mybearworld wrote:
randomguyboi wrote:
l-l~ɫ
Why not also allow /ʟ/?
randomguyboi wrote:
q-kʷ
Why /kʷ/? We also have /kw/ <kw>, and I have no idea how to differentiate /kw/ from /kʷ/…
randomguyboi wrote:
Phonotactics:
(C)V(N)
-please recommend more stuff here-
“Two vowels from too different syllables can't cluster, in order to avoid something like aei being a word” (suggestion)

Alright.
1) I fixed it to where it is allowed.
2) /w/ and /j/ are now only allowed in the coda
3) Added!

mybearworld

I think this language should be at least somewhat optimized for talking about conlangs, so the word for language should be shorter, maybe “lin” (from latin)?

mybearworld

randomguybro wrote:
<j> is used when /j/ is in front of a vowel. Otherwise, you use <y>

The syllable structure doesn't allow <j> to appear anywhere but in front of a vowel

randomguyboi

mybearworld wrote:
randomguybro wrote:
<j> is used when /j/ is in front of a vowel. Otherwise, you use <y>
The syllable structure doesn't allow <j> to appear anywhere but in front of a vowel

I guess <j> only appears when you have the dual syllable structure CV/j/V.

mybearworld

Sorry for the confusion, I didn't notice that the syllable structure is (C)V(C)… I for some reason saw (C)V(N)

randomguyboi

mybearworld wrote:
Sorry for the confusion, I didn't notice that the syllable structure is (C)V(C)… I for some reason saw (C)V(N)

That’s because that’s the way it was. I changed it when I restricted /w/ and /j/ to the coda.

mybearworld

edit

Last edited by mybearworld (Dec. 3, 2021 23:02:39)

randomguyboi

mybearworld wrote:
jayjay and wawwaw would now be accepted. Maybe restrict that?

Relatively sure it’s already restricted.

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