Get rid of the make cloud variable checkbox.

ScratchCat1038

For those of you that are saying “support, cloud data is being used to create multiplayer games, which isn't what they were made for (high scores)”,

Just because something is being used in a way that isn't the main purpose of it doesn't mean the whole feature should be removed. If it did mean it should be removed, then should this rejected suggestion be unrejected and implemented?

3.4 Censor projects with no coding
Scratch encourages creativity of many kinds, not just programming. As a result, many kinds of projects are allowed, such as algorithms, games, art, animations, music, and others. Some of these projects do not necessarily need any scripts in them, and the Scratch Team will not require that they do.

If something is being used in a way that breaks the community guidelines, that's a different story. Sure, cloud chats can be made, but the cons still outweigh the pros.

yey king of the page

Last edited by ScratchCat1038 (Sept. 16, 2021 20:37:43)

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mumu245

Jeffalo wrote:
Cloud data was implemented back at the launch of 2.0. Since launch it has been mostly doomed since the start. Check out this clip from a video showcasing the features of 2.0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPGmV8ejWP4

The major cloud data feature showcased is cloud lists, which as we know now only existed for a small time during the alpha/beta and never made it to launch.

Regularly, the cloud service simply stops working, and requires attention from the Scratch Team to get it working, due to stress on the cloud servers and issues with saftey of Scratchers, cloud data is severely limited by forcing them to be 256 digits or less. This makes them very difficult to be used outside of simple “high score counters”.

Often, not even highscore counters work, leading to a generally bad Scratch experience, especially for new Scratchers who might place the blame of something not working in their projects on themselves. Which could lead to them simply not thinking they're “good enough” at coding, even though the issue lies in Scratch. If this happens, it's probably safe to say that Scratch failed at one of it's goals of educating people about computer science.

One increasingly common use case for cloud data is modifying them using external scripts. While this is fun and educational, it also opens the door to dangerous projects that could, for example bypass cloud restrictions to do stuff like saving a picture from the video sensing feature to an externally accessible database or maybe a web browser that could be used to access community guidelines breaking web pages.

I propose that cloud data is removed for the following reasons:
It requires regular maintenance from the Scratch Team, which eats away at time and resources that could go towards other projects like working on the Scratch editor or website..
It is a safety risk, exposing users to unmoderated chat rooms, external scripts doing dangerous things and any variables simply being easily externally modified due to the nature of how it works
It is a security risk, leaving a higher attack surface on the Scratch websites. A service with no features is a service with no vulnerabilities.
Many users don't even know it exists, due to it having to be limited to full Scratchers.
It can't do many of the exciting things it was planned to be able to do, the way it's presented to users makes it only viable as a high score counter without lots of work going into converting digits to strings and back. Some projects even have to use compression algorithms to get around the digit limit.

It would be sad to see such a powerful feature go, but in it's current state, Scratch would be better without it.

Obviously, removing features and not compensating with other things isn't cool, so some kind of local variable storage (via localstorage or cookies) would be a useful replacement. While this suggestion isn't about that though, it would be a simple extension to add and would not require much maintenance as everything is just stored locally in the user's browser. It also wouldn't have any of the safety/security risks of cloud data outlined above.

What about multiplayer?

select this text then press Ctrl+Shift+Down to read more

mumu245

mumu245 wrote:
Jeffalo wrote:
Cloud data was implemented back at the launch of 2.0. Since launch it has been mostly doomed since the start. Check out this clip from a video showcasing the features of 2.0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPGmV8ejWP4

The major cloud data feature showcased is cloud lists, which as we know now only existed for a small time during the alpha/beta and never made it to launch.

Regularly, the cloud service simply stops working, and requires attention from the Scratch Team to get it working, due to stress on the cloud servers and issues with saftey of Scratchers, cloud data is severely limited by forcing them to be 256 digits or less. This makes them very difficult to be used outside of simple “high score counters”.

Often, not even highscore counters work, leading to a generally bad Scratch experience, especially for new Scratchers who might place the blame of something not working in their projects on themselves. Which could lead to them simply not thinking they're “good enough” at coding, even though the issue lies in Scratch. If this happens, it's probably safe to say that Scratch failed at one of it's goals of educating people about computer science.

One increasingly common use case for cloud data is modifying them using external scripts. While this is fun and educational, it also opens the door to dangerous projects that could, for example bypass cloud restrictions to do stuff like saving a picture from the video sensing feature to an externally accessible database or maybe a web browser that could be used to access community guidelines breaking web pages.

I propose that cloud data is removed for the following reasons:
It requires regular maintenance from the Scratch Team, which eats away at time and resources that could go towards other projects like working on the Scratch editor or website..
It is a safety risk, exposing users to unmoderated chat rooms, external scripts doing dangerous things and any variables simply being easily externally modified due to the nature of how it works
It is a security risk, leaving a higher attack surface on the Scratch websites. A service with no features is a service with no vulnerabilities.
Many users don't even know it exists, due to it having to be limited to full Scratchers.
It can't do many of the exciting things it was planned to be able to do, the way it's presented to users makes it only viable as a high score counter without lots of work going into converting digits to strings and back. Some projects even have to use compression algorithms to get around the digit limit.

It would be sad to see such a powerful feature go, but in it's current state, Scratch would be better without it.

Obviously, removing features and not compensating with other things isn't cool, so some kind of local variable storage (via localstorage or cookies) would be a useful replacement. While this suggestion isn't about that though, it would be a simple extension to add and would not require much maintenance as everything is just stored locally in the user's browser. It also wouldn't have any of the safety/security risks of cloud data outlined above.
What about multiplayer?

If multiplayer blocks are added, I'm ok.

select this text then press Ctrl+Shift+Down to read more

-EmeraldThunder-

mumu245 wrote:
If multiplayer blocks are added, I'm ok.

No, that would just limit what is already possible,

Nothing here.

dhuls

mumu245 wrote:
If multiplayer blocks are added, I'm ok.

Multiplayer blocks are actually worse than cloud variables. They only take away functionality without adding anything new. IMO, this would be worse than the studio update.

Test how good your computer is at doing math. 3DS and Wii U online after shutdown.

Maximouse

dhuls wrote:
mumu245 wrote:
If multiplayer blocks are added, I'm ok.
Multiplayer blocks are actually worse than cloud variables. They only take away functionality without adding anything new. IMO, this would be worse than the studio update.

They would probably be easier to use and more secure than cloud variables.

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legobuilder000

dhuls wrote:
mumu245 wrote:
If multiplayer blocks are added, I'm ok.
Multiplayer blocks are actually worse than cloud variables. They only take away functionality without adding anything new. IMO, this would be worse than the studio update.

Yes, also they limit creativity since all you need is just a few blocks instead of following a tutorial/building your own. In my opinion, making your own script feels a lot more satisifying then dragging out a few blocks.

Hi! :)
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Last edited by legobuilder000 (Sept. 18, 2021 16:16:21)

Hi! :)
Have a great day!
Today, I would like to give Za-Chary a special thanks. He was a moderator, the writer of The Official List of Rejected Suggestions, which is really helpful in the suggestions forums. On October 29, 2021, he left the Scratch Team. Thank you Za-Chary, for all your work!
This message will stay up until 12-1-21

Control+Shift+Down to see more!

News-(11-1-21)
I am going to change my profile picture, since Halloween is over!
(End of news)

Check out my projects!
ScratchPedia, aka the Scratch Wiki, but as a project.
When Griffpatch makes a collab, what happens? Click here to find out!
Want to play Roblox on Scratch? Click here, and make an account to start playing!
A nice relaxing fireplace video. Click here to find it!
Did you like those projects? Consider following me! Only if you want to though!

Don't worry, I have some evil kumquat protection. Here it is:

when green flag clicked
if <Kumquats try to invade a siggy> then
broadcast [Make Siggy Guards]
end

when I receive [Make Siggy Guards]
forever
summon (100) siggy guards
end

Wow, you read until the end! Congrats! :D

legobuilder000

Reev0102 wrote:
SuperMarioHome wrote:
Cloud variables are very useful. If you understand the limitations and how they can be used, they will be useful to you one day.
Cloud variables are unsafe, as stated in Jeffalo's post.

Well, yes, stuff like chat rooms are easy to create, but it's also really easy to just report them and move on. I actually haven't seen too many so far.

Hi! :)
Have a great day!
Today, I would like to give Za-Chary a special thanks. He was a moderator, the writer of The Official List of Rejected Suggestions, which is really helpful in the suggestions forums. On October 29, 2021, he left the Scratch Team. Thank you Za-Chary, for all your work!
This message will stay up until 12-1-21

Control+Shift+Down to see more!

News-(11-1-21)
I am going to change my profile picture, since Halloween is over!
(End of news)

Check out my projects!
ScratchPedia, aka the Scratch Wiki, but as a project.
When Griffpatch makes a collab, what happens? Click here to find out!
Want to play Roblox on Scratch? Click here, and make an account to start playing!
A nice relaxing fireplace video. Click here to find it!
Did you like those projects? Consider following me! Only if you want to though!

Don't worry, I have some evil kumquat protection. Here it is:

when green flag clicked
if <Kumquats try to invade a siggy> then
broadcast [Make Siggy Guards]
end

when I receive [Make Siggy Guards]
forever
summon (100) siggy guards
end

Wow, you read until the end! Congrats! :D

miniepicness

I think someone answered here and got their post deleted

edit: maybe that was a different topic

Last edited by miniepicness (Sept. 20, 2021 23:17:48)

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ScratchCat1038

bump, even though I don't support. I wanna see discussion on this.

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Paddle2See

It would be very disruptive to suddenly remove the cloud variable feature. Sure, it can be glitchy at times, but it works well enough that a lot of Scratchers use it for their projects.

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