Blaze349 wrote:

How about this:

No political or religious projects on the front page

No hateful social activism content on the front page

No positive social activism content on the front page

Everyone is happy.

1. Nothing advocating for or against a political cause should be on the front page
   
2. The Scratch Team should be allowed to express themselves by sharing projects, changing their profile picture, stating their views in comments, following/curating studios supporting their positions, etc.
   

1. The Scratch Team refrains from putting anything political or remotely controversial on the Front Page. I don't think this should apply to educational projects about a religious holiday, so long as that project only teaches, and doesn't try to convince others that this custom is better than their customs or something or that they should convert to that religion.
   
2. The Scratch Team refrains from changing their profile picture or forum signatures to express a political stance.
   
3. The Scratch Team can, if they would like, share their political views in their about me/WIWO, but should make it clear that these are personal beliefs and not everybody has to share them. Similarly, they can express their political views in comments, but should not attempt to convince others of these views.
   
4. The Scratch Team refrains from following/curating political studios, but can leave supportive comments in these studios.
   
5. The Scratch Team can share political projects, so long as they express that these are just their personal views and by no means are the only valid viewpoint, and do not try to convince others of these views. Furthermore, these should be NFEd to prevent being top loved/top remixed and appearing on the Front Page.
   
6. Other users can express themselves in whatever appropriate and respectful way they so choose. Non Scratch Team-made political projects can be top loved or curated, but the Scratch Team should refrain from putting these on the Front Page themselves.
   
7. The Scratch Team continues to delete all comments that are disrespectful in any way.
   

-TheBlackParade- wrote:

Personally, I think that a ban on political projects from the Front Page may be too general. We can't stop them from getting top loved, can we? Also, can we stop Front Page Curators from curating a controversial project? This still expresses their views, not Scratch's, right?

But I don't think that the Scratch Team should put political projects on the Front Page. Because I know that I said we should find a balance between the two sides of this issue, I'm going to attempt at one. Although I would prefer if the Scratch Team was completely neutral, I don't think insisting on your way instead of compromising is a good way to resolve an issue. So, here's what I think may be helpful:

1. The Scratch Team refrains from putting anything political or remotely controversial on the Front Page. I don't think this should apply to educational projects about a religious holiday, so long as that project only teaches, and doesn't try to convince others that this custom is better than their customs or something or that they should convert to that religion.
   
2. The Scratch Team refrains from changing their profile picture or forum signatures to express a political stance.
   
3. The Scratch Team can, if they would like, share their political views in their about me/WIWO, but should make it clear that these are personal beliefs and not everybody has to share them. Similarly, they can express their political views in comments, but should not attempt to convince others of these views.
   
4. The Scratch Team refrains from following/curating political studios, but can leave supportive comments in these studios.
   
5. The Scratch Team can share political projects, so long as they express that these are just their personal views and by no means are the only valid viewpoint, and do not try to convince others of these views. Furthermore, these should be NFEd to prevent being top loved/top remixed and appearing on the Front Page.
   
6. Other users can express themselves in whatever appropriate and respectful way they so choose. Non Scratch Team-made political projects can be top loved or curated, but the Scratch Team should refrain from putting these on the Front Page themselves.
   
7. The Scratch Team continues to delete all comments that are disrespectful in any way.
   

This way, the Scratch Team can express themselves through comments, projects, and their bios on their profile. However, users who do not support a particular position held by a Scratch Team member will not really be exposed to this idea as a Scratch policy. The Scratch Team will not have to hide their political positions, but they won't be as prevalent and it will be clear to everybody that these are just personal stances and by no means the only valid stance.

I myself don't really think this is perfect. However, I don't think this issue can be resolved in any way other than compromise, at which this was my attempt. So, what does everybody else think of this?

1. The Scratch Team can share political projects, so long as they express that these are just their personal views and by no means are the only valid viewpoint, and do not try to convince others of these views. Furthermore, these should be NFEd to prevent being top loved/top remixed and appearing on the Front Page.
   .

1. I disagree. The problem arises when they try to convince others of political ideas.

Blaze349 wrote:

1. The Scratch Team can share political projects, so long as they express that these are just their personal views and by no means are the only valid viewpoint, and do not try to convince others of these views. Furthermore, these should be NFEd to prevent being top loved/top remixed and appearing on the Front Page.
   .

1. I disagree. The problem arises when they try to convince others of political ideas.

1. I agree with you there. The reason I crossed it out was because it already applies (Terms of Use, 3.1.2, can't harass users)

cul8er wrote:

-TheBlackParade- wrote:

Personally, I think that a ban on political projects from the Front Page may be too general. We can't stop them from getting top loved, can we? Also, can we stop Front Page Curators from curating a controversial project? This still expresses their views, not Scratch's, right?

But I don't think that the Scratch Team should put political projects on the Front Page. Because I know that I said we should find a balance between the two sides of this issue, I'm going to attempt at one. Although I would prefer if the Scratch Team was completely neutral, I don't think insisting on your way instead of compromising is a good way to resolve an issue. So, here's what I think may be helpful:

1. The Scratch Team refrains from putting anything political or remotely controversial on the Front Page. I don't think this should apply to educational projects about a religious holiday, so long as that project only teaches, and doesn't try to convince others that this custom is better than their customs or something or that they should convert to that religion.
   
2. The Scratch Team refrains from changing their profile picture or forum signatures to express a political stance.
   
3. The Scratch Team can, if they would like, share their political views in their about me/WIWO, but should make it clear that these are personal beliefs and not everybody has to share them. Similarly, they can express their political views in comments, but should not attempt to convince others of these views.
   
4. The Scratch Team refrains from following/curating political studios, but can leave supportive comments in these studios.
   
5. The Scratch Team can share political projects, so long as they express that these are just their personal views and by no means are the only valid viewpoint, and do not try to convince others of these views. Furthermore, these should be NFEd to prevent being top loved/top remixed and appearing on the Front Page.
   
6. Other users can express themselves in whatever appropriate and respectful way they so choose. Non Scratch Team-made political projects can be top loved or curated, but the Scratch Team should refrain from putting these on the Front Page themselves.
   
7. The Scratch Team continues to delete all comments that are disrespectful in any way.
   

This way, the Scratch Team can express themselves through comments, projects, and their bios on their profile. However, users who do not support a particular position held by a Scratch Team member will not really be exposed to this idea as a Scratch policy. The Scratch Team will not have to hide their political positions, but they won't be as prevalent and it will be clear to everybody that these are just personal stances and by no means the only valid stance.

I myself don't really think this is perfect. However, I don't think this issue can be resolved in any way other than compromise, at which this was my attempt. So, what does everybody else think of this?

Those are my edits. The strucktrough bit in 5 already applies to every user (Terms of Use 3.1.2, can't harass users), so sort of unnecessary. I still think that second part of 1 shouldn't be included because if presented without explanation, then it would seem that the ST endorses the religion. 4 edited for similar reasons.

I think this is a great compromise. The ST are still able to express themselves and their views, without accidentally misusing their influence.

Jonathan50 wrote:

We should probably stop making new topics about this.

-TheBlackParade- wrote:

-TheBlackParade- wrote:

Personally, I think that a ban on political projects from the Front Page may be too general. We can't stop them from getting top loved, can we? Also, can we stop Front Page Curators from curating a controversial project? This still expresses their views, not Scratch's, right?

But I don't think that the Scratch Team should put political projects on the Front Page. Because I know that I said we should find a balance between the two sides of this issue, I'm going to attempt at one. Although I would prefer if the Scratch Team was completely neutral, I don't think insisting on your way instead of compromising is a good way to resolve an issue. So, here's what I think may be helpful:

1. The Scratch Team refrains from putting anything political or remotely controversial on the Front Page. I don't think this should apply to educational projects about a religious holiday, so long as that project only teaches, and doesn't try to convince others that this custom is better than their customs or something or that they should convert to that religion.
   
2. The Scratch Team refrains from changing their profile picture or forum signatures to express a political stance.
   
3. The Scratch Team can, if they would like, share their political views in their about me/WIWO, but should make it clear that these are personal beliefs and not everybody has to share them. Similarly, they can express their political views in comments, but should not attempt to convince others of these views.
   
4. The Scratch Team refrains from following/curating political studios, but can leave supportive comments in these studios.
   
5. The Scratch Team can share political projects, so long as they express that these are just their personal views and by no means are the only valid viewpoint, and do not try to convince others of these views. Furthermore, these should be NFEd to prevent being top loved/top remixed and appearing on the Front Page.
   
6. Other users can express themselves in whatever appropriate and respectful way they so choose. Non Scratch Team-made political projects can be top loved or curated, but the Scratch Team should refrain from putting these on the Front Page themselves.
   
7. The Scratch Team continues to delete all comments that are disrespectful in any way.
   

This way, the Scratch Team can express themselves through comments, projects, and their bios on their profile. However, users who do not support a particular position held by a Scratch Team member will not really be exposed to this idea as a Scratch policy. The Scratch Team will not have to hide their political positions, but they won't be as prevalent and it will be clear to everybody that these are just personal stances and by no means the only valid stance.

I myself don't really think this is perfect. However, I don't think this issue can be resolved in any way other than compromise, at which this was my attempt. So, what does everybody else think of this?

As for number one, I think perhaps it would be best to not include anything about projects relating to a religion. I've seen some featured that I think are fine for the Front Page, but honestly, if the projects are okay to be featured I don't think they can be classified as “remotely political or controversial” anyway. Number four, I'm kind of undecided. I certainly see your concerns there though and although I wouldn't mind that much if the crossed out text were included in an eventual compromise, I'm not really opposed to taking it out. Number five, I suppose that wasn't necessary to include if it's covered in the Terms of Service.

I think we should see if most people think that the compromise is a good resolution. Afterwards, are we supposed to ask the ST what they think again?

awsome_guy_360 wrote:

cul8er wrote:

-TheBlackParade- wrote:

-TheBlackParade- wrote:

Personally, I think that a ban on political projects from the Front Page may be too general. We can't stop them from getting top loved, can we? Also, can we stop Front Page Curators from curating a controversial project? This still expresses their views, not Scratch's, right?

But I don't think that the Scratch Team should put political projects on the Front Page. Because I know that I said we should find a balance between the two sides of this issue, I'm going to attempt at one. Although I would prefer if the Scratch Team was completely neutral, I don't think insisting on your way instead of compromising is a good way to resolve an issue. So, here's what I think may be helpful:

1. The Scratch Team refrains from putting anything political or remotely controversial on the Front Page. I don't think this should apply to educational projects about a religious holiday, so long as that project only teaches, and doesn't try to convince others that this custom is better than their customs or something or that they should convert to that religion.
   
2. The Scratch Team refrains from changing their profile picture or forum signatures to express a political stance.
   
3. The Scratch Team can, if they would like, share their political views in their about me/WIWO, but should make it clear that these are personal beliefs and not everybody has to share them. Similarly, they can express their political views in comments, but should not attempt to convince others of these views.
   
4. The Scratch Team refrains from following/curating political studios, but can leave supportive comments in these studios.
   
5. The Scratch Team can share political projects, so long as they express that these are just their personal views and by no means are the only valid viewpoint, and do not try to convince others of these views. Furthermore, these should be NFEd to prevent being top loved/top remixed and appearing on the Front Page.
   
6. Other users can express themselves in whatever appropriate and respectful way they so choose. Non Scratch Team-made political projects can be top loved or curated, but the Scratch Team should refrain from putting these on the Front Page themselves.
   
7. The Scratch Team continues to delete all comments that are disrespectful in any way.
   

This way, the Scratch Team can express themselves through comments, projects, and their bios on their profile. However, users who do not support a particular position held by a Scratch Team member will not really be exposed to this idea as a Scratch policy. The Scratch Team will not have to hide their political positions, but they won't be as prevalent and it will be clear to everybody that these are just personal stances and by no means the only valid stance.

I myself don't really think this is perfect. However, I don't think this issue can be resolved in any way other than compromise, at which this was my attempt. So, what does everybody else think of this?

As for number one, I think perhaps it would be best to not include anything about projects relating to a religion. I've seen some featured that I think are fine for the Front Page, but honestly, if the projects are okay to be featured I don't think they can be classified as “remotely political or controversial” anyway. Number four, I'm kind of undecided. I certainly see your concerns there though and although I wouldn't mind that much if the crossed out text were included in an eventual compromise, I'm not really opposed to taking it out. Number five, I suppose that wasn't necessary to include if it's covered in the Terms of Service.

I think we should see if most people think that the compromise is a good resolution. Afterwards, are we supposed to ask the ST what they think again?

Religion is, and always will be, a controversial topic that the ST should stay well away from. Main reason I crossed out that second part of 4 is that a lot of people use that sort of things as advertisements (e.g. @ceebee likes this studio!). But I suppose that this wouldn't be an issue if the ST made it very clear that you couldn't do that.

-TheBlackParade- wrote:

Personally, I think that a ban on political projects from the Front Page may be too general. We can't stop them from getting top loved, can we? Also, can we stop Front Page Curators from curating a controversial project? This still expresses their views, not Scratch's, right?

But I don't think that the Scratch Team should put political projects on the Front Page. Because I know that I said we should find a balance between the two sides of this issue, I'm going to attempt at one. Although I would prefer if the Scratch Team was completely neutral, I don't think insisting on your way instead of compromising is a good way to resolve an issue. So, here's what I think may be helpful:

1. The Scratch Team refrains from putting anything political or remotely controversial on the Front Page. I don't think this should apply to educational projects about a religious holiday, so long as that project only teaches, and doesn't try to convince others that this custom is better than their customs or something or that they should convert to that religion.
   
2. The Scratch Team refrains from changing their profile picture or forum signatures to express a political stance.
   
3. The Scratch Team can, if they would like, share their political views in their about me/WIWO, but should make it clear that these are personal beliefs and not everybody has to share them. Similarly, they can express their political views in comments, but should not attempt to convince others of these views.
   
4. The Scratch Team refrains from following/curating political studios, but can leave supportive comments in these studios.
   
5. The Scratch Team can share political projects, so long as they express that these are just their personal views and by no means are the only valid viewpoint, and do not try to convince others of these views. Furthermore, these should be NFEd to prevent being top loved/top remixed and appearing on the Front Page.
   
6. Other users can express themselves in whatever appropriate and respectful way they so choose. Non Scratch Team-made political projects can be top loved or curated, but the Scratch Team should refrain from putting these on the Front Page themselves.
   
7. The Scratch Team continues to delete all comments that are disrespectful in any way.
   

This way, the Scratch Team can express themselves through comments, projects, and their bios on their profile. However, users who do not support a particular position held by a Scratch Team member will not really be exposed to this idea as a Scratch policy. The Scratch Team will not have to hide their political positions, but they won't be as prevalent and it will be clear to everybody that these are just personal stances and by no means the only valid stance.

I myself don't really think this is perfect. However, I don't think this issue can be resolved in any way other than compromise, at which this was my attempt. So, what does everybody else think of this?

Attacker of CSM studio wrote:

As I said before, homophobe central.

That same attacker wrote:

Interestingly, many of my comments have disappeared.

Galleigo wrote:

Galleigo wrote:

My view-

Yes - I see how this could be viewed as promoting homophobia (cough arguments cough) but Scratch is a kid's programming website. The users, largely kids, are an impressionable audience. The ST should be neutral - not left-biased nor right-biased, but centrist.

Christian studios like this have been marked as NFE while I have never found any NFE LGBT studios.

Consider the recently featured project. If it was, say, an American flag, it would take more work (stars would be a nightmare) but I can guarantee you it wouldn't have been featured. Why?

And this is something old, but:

Attacker of CSM studio wrote:

As I said before, homophobe central.

The above comment was reported and taken down.

That same attacker wrote:

Interestingly, many of my comments have disappeared.

^True, but heard anything about alerts? Didn't think so.

Another note - about 7 months ago, there were some people constantly attacking a user, accusing him of being a “homophobic bully” (he was Christian). Guess who was taken down? The Christian user, even though he was the one being attacked. To this day he is still banned.

And please, ST - if you disagree, say it to our face. Don't say something like “closing due to arguments”. We want a definite answer.

Blaze349 wrote:

Galleigo wrote:

Turns out it wasn't marked NFE.

While, I'm not happy about his ban (I talked to him today), please don't link to his profile. It could be taken as naming and shaming.

cul8er wrote:

Galleigo wrote:

snip

Let's stay on topic. We don't won't this to be closed. Remember, this is not a platform for political debate or giving specific complaints.

Galleigo wrote:

cul8er wrote:

Galleigo wrote:

snip

Let's stay on topic. We don't won't this to be closed. Remember, this is not a platform for political debate or giving specific complaints.

It was basically me talking about more unfair stuff because of the ST's political bias.

cul8er wrote:

Galleigo wrote:

cul8er wrote:

Galleigo wrote:

snip

Let's stay on topic. We don't won't this to be closed. Remember, this is not a platform for political debate or giving specific complaints.

It was basically me talking about more unfair stuff because of the ST's political bias.

Anyway. Let's move on.