CosmicSans wrote:

Even though I've only been here four days, I've been around the forums and have seen some people bash up topics made by people who didn't read the stickies. I'll bet this has a negative impact on their emotions, since they're people too. So I've written this guide to providing constructive replies to topics, and how to deal with topics that have been rejected.

1. Don't bash on ideas
For lack of a better word, don't attack ideas made by newbies, saying “READ THE STICKY” and such. Here's an example. Which looks better? I've seen both of these on the forums before…

#1:

READ…THE…STICKY! UGH!
http://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/4789/
http://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/4789/
http://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/4789/
http://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/4789/

#2:

Hey there!

Great idea! Unfortunately, it's already been suggested and rejected.
On the Scratch forums, there are these things called stickies that you have to read before posting. One of these says that this idea has been rejected, because it wouldn't quite work with the site right now.

Keep thinking up ideas!

I bet you're thinking #2, right? Yeah! The second one has a better atmosphere and feeling than the first. Instead of making people feel bad about their post, just try and give them a nudge.

2. If something has been mentioned, don't say it again
…unless you are providing something constructive.
Saying “support” and “no support” don't really help the discussion unless you're providing good points about the topic. This applies to #1 on this list, too. If something has been said about it being rejected or something, don't say it again unless you have something to add. Saying “as per this” doesn't help the discussion, either.

3. Think of a new direction
Instead of going along with what everyone else says about the topic, try and think for yourself. Think about the good things and bad things about the suggestion. Try and provide some good points, and keep it respectful about other Scratchers. Ask questions about the topic instead of saying “this would never work”. Think about what you're going to say before you post - it helps you a lot!

That wraps up my guide! I hope you find this topic useful, and I hope it helps the Scratch forums and the website itself grow!




(Moderator's note - this post from further down the topic has some very good points by Zro716 that I decided to add to the first post for more visibility)

Zro716 wrote:

I wish CosmicSans could extend their post to include avoiding certain rationale for and against common suggestions. Maybe a mod can edit this in so we don't have to squeeze in another sticky?

Avoid making these kinds of arguments

• Support. [no reasoning] - It isn't recommended to leave your post devoid of any reason. People, including the ST, get bugged when posts consist of this one word because it doesn't help to show that the author knows why they support. If there is aught worth mentioning about the idea, do add it to your post.
  
  
• Support, because why not? - Do not rhetorically ask for counter-arguments without providing your own argument first. Just because you cannot find a reason against something does not mean there are no reasons against it.
  
  
• Support, would really help. - In what ways does it help, what problem(s) does it solve? Can the same solution be found with what we already have, and how difficult is it to reach? Be sure to recognize the benefit(s) of an idea and the problem(s) without it.
  
  
• No support. [no reasoning] - If you choose to not give any counterarguments, your entire post is worthless. The least you can do is point to a post with reasoning that you align yourself to, but never be a yay-or-nay person without any reason.
  
  
• No support, why? - Do not beg the question about the purpose of a suggestion if its reasons are already stated, because it shows you are not acknowledging them. Please check other posts for arguments that you can address.
  
  
• No support, useless. - Every suggestion has a reason behind it, whether stated or not. While you may not see the use of something, someone else might/will. Cynicism isn't healthy if you're shutting out every idea that doesn't fit your vision of Scratch, so keep an open mind about things and understand that nothing is ever useless.
  
  
• No support, too confusing for New Scratchers. - Scratch needs to have a low floor (easy to understand) and a high ceiling (can be used to create anything). Rejecting blocks because one finds them confusing, or might find them confusing according to a noob, is not a complete and valid argument. Confusion caused by a lack of knowledge in related subjects is normal to occur, which is why blocks such as the transcendental functions are included, and thus does not merit an argument. Confusion caused by the specialization of a process is valid itself, but given it is clear that most people, not just New Scratchers, are confused by it. Confusion caused by a lack of clarity in the OP's suggestion necessitates a request for more detail before a re-argumentation (ask nicely for a better description instead of immediately rejecting).
  
  
• No support, could be abused. - Everything can be abused, but does that mean every new idea must be rejected because of it? No, do not make this argument ever unless there is obvious intent for abuse, such as for private messaging (see rejected ideas list). By making this argument, you are implying that you don't see absolutely any benefit from an idea, and that is quite ignorant.
  
  
• No support, would cause spam. - Abuse in the form of spam is inevitable, but it should not be the sole reason to prevent new ideas from surfacing. This is like saying, “we shouldn't have forums/Scratch because people spam on it” - your argument goes nowhere fast and you get lost in absolute cynicism. Instead of rejecting an idea because of the spam it brings, introduce ways to regulate and minimize the spam.
  
  
• No support, bad idea. - First, what makes it a “bad idea”? Don't assume the OP knows what you mean by “bad”. Second, don't insult the OP by calling their idea out as “bad”, and instead argue that it will bring more negative consequences than benefits (do remember to list them too).
  
  
• No support, close this topic before it starts a flame war. - Never tell the OP to close their topic just because you (and others) disagree with it, or that you worry that a potential war of opinions is about to start. This is the suggestions forum where debate is common and usually civilized (so long as participants are willing to keep their cool). Only in the rarest of situations would you ever have to say this, most likely when an idea is backed by religious or political arguments.
  
  
• No support, has workaround. - Don't be hasty to pull out the workaround card on block ideas. Remember that the OP was most likely not aware of the workaround. It makes matters worse to make this your only argument because it quickly becomes a game of “how many blocks can we workaround in Scratch”, which goes further down to “remove this block because it has a workaround”. If Scratch was so low-level that even division had to be worked around with multiplication and subtraction, Scratch would be extremely difficult. So please acknowledge the fact that workarounds are not always the best route to take, especially when an idea obviously makes a process easier and faster than conventional means.
  
  
• Indifferent. - The field is for playing, not spectating. If you're not part of the game, don't participate. In other words, if you have nothing to say that will contribute to the discussion, do not post.
  

CosmicSans wrote:

stickfiregames wrote:

Deerleg wrote:

Oh, and add “Don't use Scratchblocks.”

It depends on the situation

when <I see this suggestion :: custom>
add [stickfiregames] to [supporters v]
wait until <[scratch v] contains (this suggestion)?>
forever
say [yay they added it] for {forever} secs
end

is spam and not really helpful. But

Good idea, but I think it would be better as one block like this:

turn turbo mode [on v] :: control

is constructive because it helps to illustrate the blocks, and doesn't overuse them. Maybe change it to “Don't use scratchblocks spam”.

that is true.

when <spammers attack:: custom>
...:: grey

support

no support

fredfish10 wrote:

STICKIE IT SCRATCH TEAM

No support, would cause strain on the servers.

MClovers wrote:

Wow, a new scratcher that got stickied congrats!

Techno-CAT wrote:

MClovers wrote:

Wow, a new scratcher that got stickied congrats!

-No Support/Support, though duplicate
This is an improper way to add reason into your support-ship, and is also extremely rude. Rude, because: you are throwing their suggestion off as unoriginal as well as low effort. Remember that respect is part of the Community Guidelines.

MathlyCat wrote:

I have been noticing something and should really be added:

-No Support/Support, though duplicate
This is an improper way to add reason into your support-ship, and is also extremely rude. Rude, because: you are throwing their suggestion off as unoriginal as well as low effort. Remember that respect is part of the Community Guidelines.

Paddle2See wrote:

MathlyCat wrote:

I have been noticing something and should really be added:

-No Support/Support, though duplicate
This is an improper way to add reason into your support-ship, and is also extremely rude. Rude, because: you are throwing their suggestion off as unoriginal as well as low effort. Remember that respect is part of the Community Guidelines.

I disagree. If the goal is to keep suggestions organized, then reducing duplicate topics is a way to do that. That is not to say that there aren't friendlier ways to point out that they might want to add their posts to an existing topic on the same subject

BaconAndEggs1 wrote:

my favourite part is how pretty much nearly all of the big contributors to this section always make posts that don't follow these guidelines at all

birdoftheday wrote:

BaconAndEggs1 wrote:

my favourite part is how pretty much nearly all of the big contributors to this section always make posts that don't follow these guidelines at all

I should start posting “Read the stickies!!!” and then this link whenever anyone makes one of these kinds of posts from now on.

CosmicSans wrote:

1. Don't bash on ideas
For lack of a better word, don't attack ideas made by newbies, saying “READ THE STICKY” and such. Here's an example. Which looks better? I've seen both of these on the forums before…

#1:

READ…THE…STICKY! UGH!
http://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/4789/
http://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/4789/
http://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/4789/
http://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/4789/

#2:

Hey there!

Great idea! Unfortunately, it's already been suggested and rejected.
On the Scratch forums, there are these things called stickies that you have to read before posting. One of these says that this idea has been rejected, because it wouldn't quite work with the site right now.

Keep thinking up ideas!

I bet you're thinking #2, right? Yeah! The second one has a better atmosphere and feeling than the first. Instead of making people feel bad about their post, just try and give them a nudge.