So, Challenger10k is a rather popular youtuber whom has been spreading disinformation(1) about Scratch's moderation system, Scratch becoming for-profit, etc.

This is damaging Scratch's brand and legally considered libelous(2) statements since it is false information targeted toward the brand.

Legally, truth is an absolute offense and defense of libel, and Scratch can effectively prove wrong each of the statements Challenger10k has made or will make if it goes to court. The youtuber would be defending themselves from a sword with a damp napkin. A cease and desist(3) would be a strong precursor to legal action. Provable damage can easily be found by referencing the time(4) moderators have spent dealing with projects, forum posts, etc. complaining about “mass reporting”, as many directly reference Challenger10k's false video.

This essay explains and debunks most false information about the reporting system, and as Scratch is legally considered a nonprofit and this has not changed.

1. not misinformation; they know what they are saying is false so disinformation is the right term.

2. Libel is a false statement that is presented as a fact and damages a brand. Challenger10k's video about moderation, and video about Scratch apparently becoming for profit are both libel. It is a form of defamation.

3. A cease and desist is in essence a letter telling people that they need to stop doing something or it will be escalated to court.

4. And therefore funds wasted since moderators are paid.

I am now aware this may be considered naming and shaming. I will keep it like this for now as this topic doesn't make sense without it, but if an ST member confirms it isn't okay Ill go ahead and reword this so it still works.

I am all for this. The whole situation is just ridiculous.

semi-support. the reason why i say semi-support is because, while i do agree with this, i think a cease and desist notice is a little too harsh. it's not like this is a “nintendo cease and desists fangame creator for using their licensed products” kinda deal, this is just a youtuber we're talking about. i'm not sure if MIT would have the legal authority to sue a content creator for what they do, but this kind of thing DOES happen with nickelodeon and viacom copyright-claiming videos with their content. however, that's a completely different situation, viacom isn't really sending cease and desists to people who decide to reupload videos anyway, they just get copyright claimed.

i think the best way to handle this is to have MIT strike their videos for false information. that way, they won't have to go to court, if at all, and the youtuber mentioned still has to face punishment.

campfire_collective wrote:

semi-support. the reason why i say semi-support is because, while i do agree with this, i think a cease and desist notice is a little too harsh. it's not like this is a “nintendo cease and desists fangame creator for using their licensed products” kinda deal, this is just a youtuber we're talking about. i'm not sure if MIT would have the legal authority to sue a content creator for what they do, but this kind of thing DOES happen with nickelodeon and viacom copyright-claiming videos with their content. however, that's a completely different situation, viacom isn't really sending cease and desists to people who decide to reupload videos anyway, they just get copyright claimed.

i think the best way to handle this is to have MIT strike their videos for false information. that way, they won't have to go to court, if at all, and the youtuber mentioned still has to face punishment.

MIT does not own Scratch and isn't in a position to strike the videos. the owners of Scratch can.

I believe that with what the youtuber has said this suggestion is presenting a reasonable action.

It is explained in the OP above why scratch has the legal authority to do this.

I have mixed thoughts on him

His newest video caused me to scream when he said something about the trademarks and how he has read other sources about it, and then proceeds to show us 1 source and not the rest, and that one source is Wikipedia, you know the one Where anyone can edit things you can't say you read other sources about Trademarks and only show one why can't you just show the other ones

And not to mention that from his perspective, a Scratchers perspective, and not from Scratch Team themselves, :\

And not to mention Paddle2See said something about that video

And that statement where he said Scratch is turning into a full profit organization is just wrong

MagicCoder330 wrote:

MIT does not own Scratch and isn't in a position to strike the videos.

according to scratch's DMCA page:

DMCA Page wrote:

The Scratch Foundation will promptly process and investigate notices of alleged infringement and will take appropriate actions under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (“DMCA”) and other applicable intellectual property laws. Upon receipt of notices complying or substantially complying with the DMCA, the Scratch Foundation may act expeditiously to remove or disable access to any material claimed to be infringing. Repeat infringers of third-party copyrights are subject to termination in appropriate circumstances.

they ARE able to take down individual projects according to DMCA/copyright infringement, i have no reason to believe why they can't do the same for youtube videos and strike them for the same reasons.

i did not realize MIT doesn't own scratch, that was my fault but i still believe the videos can be striked down under copyright infringement, since the scratch foundation has the rights to under their DMCA page.

MagicCoder330 wrote:

I believe that with what the youtuber has said this suggestion is presenting a reasonable action.

It is explained in the OP above why scratch has the legal authority to do this.

i haven't watched any of the videos made by said youtuber, but i am aware that scratch CAN send a cease and desist. i just don't think it's the right action to take in this circumstance.

campfire_collective wrote:

snip for shorter post

Challenger10k makes videos that are spreading disinformation about Scratch to make money off of views and likes from other people believing the information. Its basically them getting paid to say things that aren't true.

their videos are responsible for hundreds, if not thousands of projects, comments, etc. spreading more misinformation which need to be handled by the Scratch Team which is already stretched thin. Every few days we reliably get a forum post here complaining about Scratch's allegedly AI moderation, some of which reference Challenger10k's videos.

This has caused notable damage to Scratch and a cease and desist is likely the best action they can take.

Getting the videos taken down would be treating the symptoms instead of the problem because they would just post more videos. A cease and desist would let Challenger10k know that they are on thin ice directly while disarming effective responses they can do - DMCAing the videos would not do this effectively

MagicCoder330 wrote:

Challenger10k makes videos that are spreading disinformation about Scratch to make money off of views and likes from other people believing the information. Its basically them getting paid to say things that aren't true.

their videos are responsible for hundreds, if not thousands of projects, comments, etc. spreading more misinformation which need to be handled by the Scratch Team which is already stretched thin. Every few days we reliably get a forum post here complaining about Scratch's allegedly AI moderation, some of which reference Challenger10k's videos.

in that case, then i think it is reasonable for them to send a cease and desist, just not the action i would prefer necessarily

campfire_collective wrote:

MagicCoder330 wrote:

Challenger10k makes videos that are spreading disinformation about Scratch to make money off of views and likes from other people believing the information. Its basically them getting paid to say things that aren't true.

their videos are responsible for hundreds, if not thousands of projects, comments, etc. spreading more misinformation which need to be handled by the Scratch Team which is already stretched thin. Every few days we reliably get a forum post here complaining about Scratch's allegedly AI moderation, some of which reference Challenger10k's videos.

in that case, then i think it is reasonable for them to send a cease and desist, just not the action i would prefer necessarily

That's alright, this forum is for spitballing and discussing ideas. A DMCA would likely be good to do alongside a cease and desist.

Edit: I do not believe that a DMCA is the right channel to do this since the videos are technically commentary and allowed under copyright. They are still libel though, so a cease and desist would be a valid response.

Alright, I feel as though that's too far. If you wanna send a cease desist to everyone who spreads disinformation, then lets start with the Scratch sub-redbubble app.

I feel like sending a cease and desist to a YouTuber over something like this just paints a company in a worse light than the YouTuber who spread this disinformation. And I'm going to watch some of his videos then come back to make a follow up. But before then, I do not support this and this isn't even beneficial to the Scratch website itself. This is between the Scratch Team and an off platform user, whom is more than likely a teenager.

cambegonefr wrote:

Alright, I feel as though that's too far. If you wanna send a cease desist to everyone who spreads disinformation, then lets start with the Scratch sub-redbubble app.

I feel like sending a cease and desist to a YouTuber over something like this just paints a company in a worse light than the YouTuber who spread this disinformation. And I'm going to watch some of his videos then come back to make a follow up. But before then, I do not support this and this isn't even beneficial to the Scratch website itself. This is between the Scratch Team and an off platform user, whom is more than likely a teenager.

Much of the misinformation on red alien app is derived from this person's videos.

This would curb the spread of misinformation (it turns from disinfo to misinfo if it wasn't spread in bad faith, so most people who are talking about it on forums or projects or red alien app are spreading misinformation) by stopping it at the source. No effective response from Challenger10k would counter this if they decided to reference the document, and if they didn't they wouldn't have a source at all and would basically just be saying “Im right their wrong!!!1” without anything to back them up (though, it seems like this strategy has worked for them before unfortunately, see any of their popular videos. they have no real sources to their claims.)

It would quite directly help the site if people stopped believing this misinformation, not to mention Scratch's wallet since moderators cost money.

LETS SEND NINTENDO AFTER THEM!1!1!1!1 but in all seriousness misinformation is annoying and it's even worse when trying to hurt a brands picture (believe it or not (which i'm sure you do) people do this all the time with stuff they find “inferior” to something else (in this case the youtuber probably loves python or java and started attacking scratch for “not being real coding”) ahem sorry got sidetracked) so i do think something needs to be done.. a CnD though? that wouldn't really help they would be seen as the nintendo of coding (i have nothing against nintendo)

cambegonefr wrote:

Alright, I feel as though that's too far. If you wanna send a cease desist to everyone who spreads disinformation, then lets start with the Scratch sub-redbubble app.

I feel like sending a cease and desist to a YouTuber over something like this just paints a company in a worse light than the YouTuber who spread this disinformation. And I'm going to watch some of his videos then come back to make a follow up. But before then, I do not support this and this isn't even beneficial to the Scratch website itself. This is between the Scratch Team and an off platform user, whom is more than likely a teenager.

So after watching some of his videos, the things he cover are just common things that more documentary styled YouTubers make. That shouldn't be grounds for a cease and desist, for one. And two, I just realized that this whole topic counts as naming and shaming, something very frowned upon.

MagicCoder330 wrote:

Much of the misinformation on red alien app is derived from this person's videos.

I promise you, this user's most popular video is from September 2024. There's been statements from before then. And let's say it wasn't the Red Ailen app, and it was Common Sense media. Both parents and kids gave Scratch an overall review of 3 stars and the topic reviews complain about moderation, and they're from 3-5 years ago. Should Scratch send CommonSense Media a cease and desist?

MagicCoder330 wrote:

This would curb the spread of misinformation (it turns from disinfo to misinfo if it wasn't spread in bad faith, so most people who are talking about it on forums or projects or red alien app are spreading misinformation) by stopping it at the source.

Trust me luv, the source is not a random teenager on Scratch who does YouTube videos about the platform.

MagicCoder330 wrote:

No effective response from Challenger10k would counter this if they decided to reference the document, and if they didn't they wouldn't have a source at all and would basically just be saying “Im right their wrong!!!1” without anything to back them up (though, it seems like this strategy has worked for them before unfortunately, see any of their popular videos. they have no real sources to their claims.)

All they have to do is ask the community and internet as a whole. As I mentioned as a previous example, CommonSense Media.

MagicCoder330 wrote:

It would quite directly help the site if people stopped believing this misinformation, not to mention Scratch's wallet since moderators cost money.

You know whose else's wallet would hurt? The parents of the poor teenager who just wanted to make YouTube videos and instead got caught in a legal battle with a children's coding website.

cambegonefr wrote:

So after watching some of his videos, the things he cover are just common things that more documentary styled YouTubers make. That shouldn't be grounds for a cease and desist, for one. And two, I just realized that this whole topic counts as naming and shaming, something very frowned upon.
When people are complaining about moderation they cite this person's videos a good portion of the time. Ive explained in the OP why this user's claims are grounds for a cease and desist and going to court if they continue after the letter.

their videos are quite popular (over 100k views for the one about the moderation) so I believe that this is grounds for it being considered damaging to Scratch.

This person's videos are monetized and they are not a teenager or disgruntled person - they are speaking for money.

Sorry for the name-shaming. I believe it is acceptable in this situation, if only because they are off platform and causing a large issue. I could be wrong, though.

cambegonefr wrote:

snip

You do make a good point about a lot of the information being around before the video was published, but at the current time a lot of the people complaining do so because they saw their videos.

If they really are a teenager who's parents cant pay for a lawyer as you purport, they will stop when they get the letter and Scratch Foundation v Challenger10k won't need to go to court at all. They seem to be a grown adult from what I have seen, however.

I do not know who this person is nor do I think name and shaming them is justifiable in this case because it isn't. And as for sending a cease and desist to a more than likely teenager, that would do more damage to the public perception of Scratch than a random teenager making videos on YouTube. There have been complaints and misinformation about the Scratch Team since the site's launch. Why does it only now warrant a cease and desist?

Sasha_Banks272 wrote:

I do not know who this person is nor do I think name and shaming them is justifiable in this case because it isn't. And as for sending a cease and desist to a more than likely teenager, that would do more damage to the public perception of Scratch than a random teenager making videos on YouTube. There have been complaints and misinformation about the Scratch Team since the site's launch. Why does it only now warrant a cease and desist?

If an ST member sets the names to removed by moderator I will reword this suggestion so it still makes sense without naming them

Please read the whole discussion, Ive gone over the point about them possibly being a teenager in post 16 above,

magiccoder330 wrote:

If they really are a teenager who's parents cant pay for a lawyer as you purport, they will stop when they get the letter and Scratch Foundation v Challenger10k won't need to go to court at all. They seem to be a grown adult from what I have seen, however.

Their videos are also popular enough that it isn't as of little consequence as you purport.

A cease and desist is likely a valid response to most misinformation being shared by other creators regardless of the time. it was never okay. This suggestion is to help stop the misinformation.

For a company that seemingly completely allows it's userbase to speak, disinformation or fact you can bet your entire wallet from your pocket that people would not only notice, but take this as a sign of silencing.
If you file for defamation, you, the plaintiff (if I recall, lawyers cannot provide the statements in the plaintiff's place, please do correct me if I am wrong) require to genuinely prove the claims wrong. If it's not proven false, it's not defamation, regardless of damage caused. A mere “we do review” or whatever this is filed against would likely lead to a long one.

There's not much of a “benefit to gain”. Not only that, I don't think it would look nice if a nonprofit org. would randomly sue a user, genuine disinformation or not.

This could go badly in terms of PR.

…also, I'm rusty with my forumese, but is this not naming and shaming by technicality? | EDIT: Oh my bad memory. People mentioned this already. My bad.
You should probably be suggesting directly to Contact-Us, not to a forum where people's answers will be “Yes” or “no thats dumb”.

In im on the nose here - this would just reciprocate the Streisand effect.
Just because you stop someone from saying information does not mean others won't not only bring him up, but also speak for them.

Zydrolic wrote:

…also, I'm rusty with my forumese, but is this not naming and shaming by technicality? | EDIT: Oh my bad memory. People mentioned this already. My bad.
You should probably be suggesting directly to Contact-Us, not to a forum where people's answers will be “Yes” or “no thats dumb”.

this seems to be correct. I will ask this to be closed and file a contact us email.

Zydrolic wrote:

In im on the nose here - this would just reciprocate the Streisand effect.
Just because you stop someone from saying information does not mean others won't not only bring him up, but also speak for them.

This is indeed an issue, though i believe as long as the full argument is shown it will be very difficult to dispute.