medians wrote:

By the way, the category was called Data in Scratch 2.0, which made more sense because it had both variables and lists.
So related:
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/post/4259034/
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/post/6277332/
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/post/2764565/
Edit: Also, I don't know if this is actually the case, but I could've sworn if you went to a category, it goes to the top, so you can just click More Blocks, and then scroll up a bit.

DeletedRohizzle wrote:

I think ST put them into the same category because lists are variables
But it would make things easier for everyone especially with projects with like 50 lists

ThisIsTemp1 wrote:

DeletedRohizzle wrote:

I think ST put them into the same category because lists are variables
But it would make things easier for everyone especially with projects with like 50 lists

You are wrong. Variables are meant to always change, while lists usually never change. Two big differences. Putting lists in variables implies that lists are always meant to be changing, which is wrong.

let listname = [];
// or
const listname = [];
// or 
var listname = [];

BigNate469 wrote:

ThisIsTemp1 wrote:

DeletedRohizzle wrote:

I think ST put them into the same category because lists are variables
But it would make things easier for everyone especially with projects with like 50 lists

You are wrong. Variables are meant to always change, while lists usually never change. Two big differences. Putting lists in variables implies that lists are always meant to be changing, which is wrong.

Nope, you're wrong. Lists very often change, and in JavaScript (the programming language Scratch runs on), lists (actually called arrays in JS) are defined as:

let listname = [];
// or
const listname = [];
// or 
var listname = [];

Where listname is the name of the list.

Variables are declared the same way, just instead of the [], it's the value of the variable.

ThisIsTemp1 wrote:

BigNate469 wrote:

ThisIsTemp1 wrote:

DeletedRohizzle wrote:

I think ST put them into the same category because lists are variables
But it would make things easier for everyone especially with projects with like 50 lists

You are wrong. Variables are meant to always change, while lists usually never change. Two big differences. Putting lists in variables implies that lists are always meant to be changing, which is wrong.

Nope, you're wrong. Lists very often change, and in JavaScript (the programming language Scratch runs on), lists (actually called arrays in JS) are defined as:

let listname = [];
// or
const listname = [];
// or 
var listname = [];

Where listname is the name of the list.

Variables are declared the same way, just instead of the [], it's the value of the variable.

So is the reason ST meshed together lists and variables because they are declared the same way in Javascript?

Za-Chary wrote:

I assumed that the reason Lists are contained in Variables is because lists are naturally more complex for beginner programmers, so the Scratch Team wanted to de-emphasize their existence by not giving Lists a separate category. I'm not sure if that's true, or if I'm wording that in the best way, but I think I've heard it somewhere before and it makes some sense.

ThisIsTemp1 wrote:

That does makes sense, but now it puzzles me because custom blocks are also complex, so now I am wondering why there isn't just a “Variables & More” section after operators to de-emphasize custom blocks as well, as those are arguably more complex than lists.

Za-Chary wrote:

ThisIsTemp1 wrote:

That does makes sense, but now it puzzles me because custom blocks are also complex, so now I am wondering why there isn't just a “Variables & More” section after operators to de-emphasize custom blocks as well, as those are arguably more complex than lists.

Arguably lists are more complex than custom blocks. In its most basic form, a custom block is just the same as a “broadcast and wait” block (which isn't self-explanatory itself). I haven't really done the research as to what is complex or not, though. I trust the Scratch Team has researched this enough.

broadcast [ v] and wait

TheCreatorOfUnTV wrote:

Za-Chary wrote:

ThisIsTemp1 wrote:

That does makes sense, but now it puzzles me because custom blocks are also complex, so now I am wondering why there isn't just a “Variables & More” section after operators to de-emphasize custom blocks as well, as those are arguably more complex than lists.

Arguably lists are more complex than custom blocks. In its most basic form, a custom block is just the same as a “broadcast and wait” block (which isn't self-explanatory itself). I haven't really done the research as to what is complex or not, though. I trust the Scratch Team has researched this enough.

broadcast [ v] and wait

can't do recursion, which is probably why the user said it's harder than lists.

when I receive [message v]
broadcast [message v] and wait

broadcast [ v]

BigNate469 wrote:

TheCreatorOfUnTV wrote:

Za-Chary wrote:

ThisIsTemp1 wrote:

That does makes sense, but now it puzzles me because custom blocks are also complex, so now I am wondering why there isn't just a “Variables & More” section after operators to de-emphasize custom blocks as well, as those are arguably more complex than lists.

Arguably lists are more complex than custom blocks. In its most basic form, a custom block is just the same as a “broadcast and wait” block (which isn't self-explanatory itself). I haven't really done the research as to what is complex or not, though. I trust the Scratch Team has researched this enough.

broadcast [ v] and wait

can't do recursion, which is probably why the user said it's harder than lists.

when I receive [message v]
broadcast [message v] and wait

Actually does work. And unlike it's counterpart that uses just the

broadcast [ v]

block, it doesn't crash the editor.

when I receive [ee v]
turn cw (15) degrees
broadcast [ee v] and wait
turn ccw (15) degrees

Za-Chary wrote:

ThisIsTemp1 wrote:

That does makes sense, but now it puzzles me because custom blocks are also complex, so now I am wondering why there isn't just a “Variables & More” section after operators to de-emphasize custom blocks as well, as those are arguably more complex than lists.

Arguably lists are more complex than custom blocks. In its most basic form, a custom block is just the same as a “broadcast and wait” block (which isn't self-explanatory itself). I haven't really done the research as to what is complex or not, though. I trust the Scratch Team has researched this enough.

Za-Chary wrote:

I assumed that the reason Lists are contained in Variables is because lists are naturally more complex for beginner programmers, so the Scratch Team wanted to de-emphasize their existence by not giving Lists a separate category. I'm not sure if that's true, or if I'm wording that in the best way, but I think I've heard it somewhere before and it makes some sense.

DeletedRohizzle wrote:

hi im back lol
So I found that in some Scratch mods, lists are a separate category.

Za-Chary wrote:

I assumed that the reason Lists are contained in Variables is because lists are naturally more complex for beginner programmers, so the Scratch Team wanted to de-emphasize their existence by not giving Lists a separate category. I'm not sure if that's true, or if I'm wording that in the best way, but I think I've heard it somewhere before and it makes some sense.

Just like Za-Chary said, lists are usually used for advanced stuff, which makes sense that more advanced Scratch mods put them in a separate category