rdococ wrote:

(#3)

wer65hertg wrote:

How would this affect the normal Scratch user, and not just the team who develops it?

The normal Scratch user would find it much easier to modify and extend Scratch as they (and I) did in its earlier years, and it would naturally provide a more advanced programming language for older users without splitting the community. Scratch 1.x gave the whole Scratch community access and a gradual introduction to a world of live programming that newer versions simply can't, but the Scratch Team could fix this.

Plus, they certainly have the funding and manpower now, and it's not like they're still adding features to Scratch 3.

ameershariff3003 wrote:

when green flag clicked
wait unitl <on forums? ::sensing>::control
forever
create clone of [myself v]
block name [ stopp v]
end
when I start as a clone
ask [message] and wait
say (answer ::sensing)

ajskateboarder wrote:

Accessibility: You can run Scratch 3 on any device with OpenGL and a web browser, and that is what makes Scratch a good beginner language. If Scratch migrated to Smalltalk, it would be hard to directly run it in the browser without it being far less interactive.

ajskateboarder wrote:

I think this would be much better as a community-driven project, not a part of the next Scratch version. I'm sure the Scratch open-source community will like the project, though

medians wrote:

Crispydogs101 wrote:

I don't think scratch 4.0 is coming in smalltalk (might be also called sqeak) since 4.0 is not announced yet. But if it does then that would be cool since smalltalk can do better things like live blocks and features. So might be support.

Squeak was an implementation of Smalltalk.

ajskateboarder wrote:

I like this idea, but there's valid reasons for Scratch 3.0 to use modern web technologies.

Accessibility: You can run Scratch 3 on any device with OpenGL and a web browser, and that is what makes Scratch a good beginner language. If Scratch migrated to Smalltalk, it would be hard to directly run it in the browser without it being far less interactive.

Strong community: It would be hard to find contributors for Scratch's open source components if they all switched to Smalltalk. Despite Smalltalk being easier to learn, many more people have learned JavaScript and React beforehand, so it's ironically easier to contribute to LLK.

I think this would be much better as a community-driven project, not a part of the next Scratch version. I'm sure the Scratch open-source community will like the project, though

NanoRook wrote:

ajskateboarder wrote:

I like this idea, but there's valid reasons for Scratch 3.0 to use modern web technologies.

Accessibility: You can run Scratch 3 on any device with OpenGL and a web browser, and that is what makes Scratch a good beginner language. If Scratch migrated to Smalltalk, it would be hard to directly run it in the browser without it being far less interactive.

Strong community: It would be hard to find contributors for Scratch's open source components if they all switched to Smalltalk. Despite Smalltalk being easier to learn, many more people have learned JavaScript and React beforehand, so it's ironically easier to contribute to LLK.

I think this would be much better as a community-driven project, not a part of the next Scratch version. I'm sure the Scratch open-source community will like the project, though

This is the big thing. I remember attempting to learn Squeak (struck me as the most popular Smalltalk implementation) and being baffled at how much community there wasn't. The wiki was barely maintained, the news section hadn't been updated since 2018, and most learning resources are ancient. Same with standard Smalltalk. I don't think it helps that the syntax feels deranged compared to modern programming syntax.

I think there is a genuine argument to be made that Scratch should be more extensible, but Smalltalk is not the answer. Maybe Lua would be a better alternative?

Basilikos wrote:

NanoRook wrote:

ajskateboarder wrote:

I like this idea, but there's valid reasons for Scratch 3.0 to use modern web technologies.

Accessibility: You can run Scratch 3 on any device with OpenGL and a web browser, and that is what makes Scratch a good beginner language. If Scratch migrated to Smalltalk, it would be hard to directly run it in the browser without it being far less interactive.

Strong community: It would be hard to find contributors for Scratch's open source components if they all switched to Smalltalk. Despite Smalltalk being easier to learn, many more people have learned JavaScript and React beforehand, so it's ironically easier to contribute to LLK.

I think this would be much better as a community-driven project, not a part of the next Scratch version. I'm sure the Scratch open-source community will like the project, though

This is the big thing. I remember attempting to learn Squeak (struck me as the most popular Smalltalk implementation) and being baffled at how much community there wasn't. The wiki was barely maintained, the news section hadn't been updated since 2018, and most learning resources are ancient. Same with standard Smalltalk. I don't think it helps that the syntax feels deranged compared to modern programming syntax.

I think there is a genuine argument to be made that Scratch should be more extensible, but Smalltalk is not the answer. Maybe Lua would be a better alternative?

Lua isn't meant for building entire websites with tons of traffic and features.

NanoRook wrote:

This is the big thing. I remember attempting to learn Squeak (struck me as the most popular Smalltalk implementation) and being baffled at how much community there wasn't. The wiki was barely maintained, the news section hadn't been updated since 2018, and most learning resources are ancient. Same with standard Smalltalk. I don't think it helps that the syntax feels deranged compared to modern programming syntax.

Basilikos wrote:

Lua isn't meant for building entire websites with tons of traffic and features.

cookieclickerer33 wrote:

rdococ wrote:

cookieclickerer33 wrote:

Say it with me everyone!

Scratch 4 will never come out!
the only reason scratch 3 came out was because of the death of flash, so unless HTML 5 gets discontinued, scratch will not reach 4.0, there will be other updates but a new update as big as 3.0/new version has not even been in development, the closest thing to an update we are probably going to get is the currently in development dark mode and high contrast blocks, other than that there are currently no other planned features other than those in scratch lab (that may never even be implemented at all! Although I hope we get the text one, making a text engine is really time consuming if you want centering)

Thanks for bumping

I don't expect Scratch 4 to come out for a while, but if Scratch lives long enough then the technologies it's using are bound to get discontinued. This is something for the Scratch Team to consider when that happens.

I have a feeling by the time HTML gets shut down scratch will have been discontinued for a while, given most of the internet is built off of HTML

creeperyeettt wrote:

scratch four isnt coming for another few years atleast as 3.0 isnt even done

rdococ wrote:

I don't expect Scratch 4 to come out for a while, but if Scratch lives long enough then the technologies it's using are bound to get discontinued. This is something for the Scratch Team to consider when that happens.

creeperyeettt wrote:

scratch four isnt coming for another few years atleast as 3.0 isnt even done

PaperMarioFan2022 wrote:

I’m not a real programmer, but I know for sure Scratch 4.0 won’t be released until HTML 5 is discontinued.