To be honest, I don’t think the Scratch Team is going to pick what the community wants, but instead what’s best for them.

I’ll bet the mopajority of the community would like to be able to name browser extensions, but they’re not changing that.

it has been a scratch tradition i think, but if it's allowed they most likely will be putting a few limitations on them

han614698 wrote:

(#8)
To be honest, I don’t think the Scratch Team is going to pick what the community wants, but instead what’s best for them.

^this, idk what else to add, just this

han614698 wrote:

To be honest, I don’t think the Scratch Team is going to pick what the community wants, but instead what’s best for them.

I’ll bet the mopajority of the community would like to be able to name browser extensions, but they’re not changing that.

Very true. Most of the community didn't like the new studio update but we still have it today. Although the 2.0 to 3.0 update received a lot of criticism, but we haven't reverted back to that version yet, have we?

Using those cases, I very much doubt that the ST would hold a poll as user feedback doesn't seem to change their decisions.

Hello, coder2045! Joke topics CAN be created, but cheddargirl already said, it is not too good to do AF topics on constructive topics. You should make a topic semi-joke, or a good idea is to advertise on the Show and Tell for a joke project. However, as long as it follows the community guidelines, feel free to make one topic.

when I got hooked on Scratch :: events hat
still in (Scratch 2.0) :: motion
gotta move on :: control
very [happy v] :: operators 
forever
create cool projects :: pen

Disevil Kumquat :: operators boolean // I will purify the evil kumquats and make them good.

Pizza0430 wrote:

Hello, coder2045! Joke topics CAN be created, but cheddargirl already said, it is not too good to do AF topics on constructive topics. You should make a topic semi-joke, or a good idea is to advertise on the Show and Tell for a joke project. However, as long as it follows the community guidelines, feel free to make one topic.

Yes.

HumanCalc7 wrote:

sharkode wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

Don't do it. We don't want a repeat of last year where a lot of users were denied help because the forums got flooded and mods spent a lot of time cleaning up instead of other reports. You're better off making an April Fools project instead of a joke forum topic.

C'mon! There is only one April fool's day each year, we forumers were being like free customer support for ST for an entire year and we're all waiting for this day to have some fun, only for ST to go like “nope”. I'm pretty sure a ST member (Zachary) even created a joke topic a few years back, I entirely agree with what @dertermenter said, the April fool's topics is not that much of a problem if we don't intentionally harm people and close all the prank topics after April fool's day.

I can see why you want to have fun, but the forums are more for important topics rather than fun, and thus should not have spam such as April Fools topics. Doing this blocks out all of the topics that need to be addressed so that people have to wait for days to have their questions answered or maybe never receive an answer. If you wish to have fun on April Fools day, feel free to make projects and studios about it all you want, but the forums are for other things, so please keep April Fools topics out of the forums.

sharkode wrote:

April fools topics is beneficial to the community because the community would learn that ST and the forumers are relatable people like them and not just some boring people without a sense of humour that are always formal, this could help to ease the tensions between ST and the community (there are some hostilities against ST in some parts of the community) and could make the community more favourable of ST.

Bro this topic has become a hardcore pvp arena for forum debates

Hi everyone!

Regardless of the decision that the Scratch Team makes regarding this, we should take it maturely and not let it dampen our spirits. When the Scratch Team starts hinting that they may make a decision that the community is not going to find favorable, it's probably a good idea to reflect on how we as a community can adapt to this change — and, if possible, try to imagine what might cause the Scratch Team to make such a decision.

I was going to suggest that the Scratch Team make a sticky explaining this, anyway, because we could probably use a reminder.

I agree that joke topics have been getting out of hand in the past year or two. When I say this, I'm not even talking about the spam that caused the Suggestions forum to get shut down (even though that was a huge problem).

For me, when I was a moderator, the cleanup for closing topics with funny joke posts was not terrible. I can't speak for other moderators, though, as I suspect they are busier than I was. But, right now, I want to speak simply from the point of view as a Scratcher who enjoys participating in April Fools' Day. At the moment, I am not speaking as a Scratch Team member who thinks that April Fools' Day is a day of spam-and-cleanup.

====================

Guys, I wish we could collectively agree to make more creative joke topics. My favorite joke topics are the ones that are original, carefully created, well thought-out, and actually suggest something meaningful (albeit silly). If your post reads like an actual suggestion, then that's great! It's a lot of fun to ask questions regarding joke suggestions and add ideas to it.

The problem is that asking questions and meaningfully contributing to a joke suggestion is difficult to do when the OP is not really a joke suggestion. There's a line that can be crossed that turns joke suggestions into spam.

Yes, that does include posts like “eoifvhbgwabfvmansdvcoizfhasldfuasdkh.”

Yes, that does include obscenely long text/emoji spam like the Bee Movie script or

But I think it also includes things like “Delete Scratch.” Unless maybe you have a couple paragraphs explaining why… I can't really do/say much with “delete Scratch.” All I can say is joke responses like “no support” — and that is unconstructive in itself.

It also includes things like “Implement private messaging.” Again, unless you have something new to contribute to the reasoning, I would encourage you to think of posts that are not simply obviously-rejected suggestions.

It also includes things like “Ban Za-Chary.” I don't know if I made it clear last year, but I actually got really tired of seeing these posts pop up. I didn't find them very funny. In fact, I eventually found them somewhat hurtful. Yes, I'm sure those were jokes… but many people know that “jokes” can be quite hurtful sometimes.

It even includes things like simply chatting in the forums — like when I made a post last year saying that I had to make breakfast and there should be “no parties” when I'm gone. That is a post that I made which I am now saying is not a good post to make. Good joke posts should still somewhat fit the purpose of the forums. Make a suggestion in the Suggestions forum. Ask a question in the Questions about Scratch forums. Don't post spam in any forums. We can all be silly in studios. The forums are a little more structured and purposeful, and I hope fellow forum helpers recognize that.

We as Scratchers need to be aware of the Community Guidelines, even on April Fools' Day. This is not a time to spam and break the forums consequence-free, because often there really are consequences: someone feels bad, or the forums slow down, or making new topics gets disabled. Last year, most joke topics were deleted, so the efforts spent and memories made last year were mostly for nothing anyway.

====================

Now let me speak as a Scratch Team member who once shared the responsibility of cleaning things up. You have to understand part of the magnitude of what the Scratch Team is dealing with. Scratcher activity ramped up in 2020, and so did the April Fools' Day topics. I was lucky to be on the Scratch Team at the time — not only to participate in ways that nobody else did (I was very lucky!) — but also to clean stuff up when it got out of hand. Now the activity is still large, and the Scratch Team is much busier than ever before. I wish I could help out, but that can't happen, so it's up to everyone else. Let me remind you of who we have.

We have @Paddle2See, who works on many many many other areas of Scratch other than the forums, and cannot moderate the forums every moment of the day.

We have @Harakou and @cheddargirl, who have full-time jobs outside of Scratch and cannot log on to Scratch every moment of the day.

We have some like @ceebee or @codubee, who despite not being regular forum moderators, might know their way around the forums enough to help out — but it's sort of unreasonable to ask them to do so since they also have their own tasks to work on (and other fun April Fools' Day festitivities to help with!).

Most moderators do not get forum moderation training. I didn't. I remind you that I wasn't even ever told to moderate the forums. I just started doing it and hoped that no one would yell at me for doing so.

When I was a moderator, I made time to visit the forums all day for April Fools'. When I say “all day,” I really do mean all day. It is unfeasible for another moderator to handle this, even if they take shifts, simply because there are not enough moderators and not enough time.

By the way… from what I remember, April Fools' Day in the forums started being 2 days in 2020. In prior years, April Fools' Day in the forums definitely started on April 1st United States time. In 2020, I think others started the idea that since it's April 1st somewhere, then festivities should begin. Sounds great and all, but that is a whole extra day of April Fools' — hence twice as much work to clean up.

We really have to think carefully about what kinds of joke topics we want to allow on April Fools' Day. It should not get out of control. In retrospect, joke posts were out of control before the Suggestions forum was even shut down.

====================

cheddargirl wrote:

I also don't think it's appropriate to justify being severely disruptive on April Fool's Day just because you were helping others on the forums (that's kind of a shallow reason to be helping others anyway).

I fully agree with this. The true mark of a kind helper is one who does not expect a reward for helping, other than the good feeling that you get for helping someone. Even if the Scratch Team takes a radical approach and disables the forums on April Fools' Day, so be it. That's not going to prevent me from helping out in the forums in the future. I don't help in the forums solely to look forward to April Fools' Day.

Those who want a “break” from helping out in the forums can do so by not participating in the forums. Those who want to have silly fun times with others can do so in studios — I certainly think that's reasonable.

Heck, it doesn't even need to be April Fools' Day for me to be funny in the forums. Some of us might recall some funny quotes that I've put in my posts (“no kissy kiss, no stabby stab”? “spunch bop”?). I can be funny and constructive, thereby getting my fix in. In fact, I'll do it here: funny haha laugh now

jackson49 wrote:

Haven't Scratch Team members themselves made joke topics on April Fools Day? For example, last year, Za-Chary made a joke topic and many posts. At the time, he was a Community Moderator.

Yeah… so, I suppose it's time for my fair share of the blame.

Yes, I admit it, I posted spam on April Fools' Day in the forums. I posted quite a few joke suggestions that were arguably creative, too — but I posted a lot of spam as well.

Guys, what the heck is this? It's literal spam. It's not even that funny. I'm sure some of us saw this post of mine and thought “Ha, good one.” But it's spam, you can't really argue against that. And what's going on here? All I did was make a “suggestion” that wasn't well thought-out and then immediately closed it. This is not a good example for an April Fools' joke topic. Oh look, it's that aforementioned chat topic I made. This isn't a suggestion. Maybe it should go in the Dustbin forum where it belongs.

There could be a problem with me participating in the forums as a Scratch Team member because it makes it seem like I endorse that behavior. Do you realize how many “ban za-chary” topics or “za-chary read this” topics came up simply because people knew I was looking at the forums and participating in the silliness? Need I remind you about this part of the Terms of Use?

Terms of Use wrote:

15. No Waiver

No waiver of any term of these Terms of Use shall be deemed a further or continuing waiver of such term or any other term, and the Scratch Team's failure to assert any right or provision under these Terms of Use shall not constitute a waiver of such right or provision.

This essentially means that “If someone breaks the Community Guidelines, even if that someone is a Scratch Team member, that does not mean that the Community Guidelines no longer hold.” To apply it to this context, “If someone makes spam posts on the forums, even if that someone is a Scratch Team member, that does not mean it's okay to post spam posts.”

Obviously the April Fools' tradition existed before I was even active in the forums — but the fact that I participated in such shenanigans does not mean that you could use that as sole justification for making joke topics.

I don't know how you feel about me posting spam. I don't know how you feel about me condemning my earlier actions as a Scratch Team member. I don't know how I feel about it either. I don't know how the Scratch Team feels about all of this. Maybe they don't think it was bad that I participated to the extent that I did. After some careful reflection, I can't help but feel that I contributed to the mess.

To the Scratch Team, and the Scratch community: I am sorry if my participating in posting joke topics contributed to any resentment that you may have towards April Fools' Day.

====================

So, what sorts of joke suggestions are good? Rather than the ones asking to “ban the scratch team” or “delete scratch” or “implement [rejected suggestion],” there are many good joke suggestions out there. I’m referring to the ones which feature a few paragraphs of writing, well-constructed sentences, with an original idea. I remember one being that Scratch Cat needs to be 20% cooler. That still makes me laugh, because it’s not a suggestion I see often. Last year there was an incredibly creative and detailed suggestion about a Space-time travel extension created by “Albert.” I wish all joke suggestions had as much thought put into them as this one was. Or how about Making Scratch a Diet Water company? These joke suggestions are all very detailed or otherwise very original — a welcome and healthy change from the typical generic “ban everyone” posts.

On the main website, April Fools' Day is all about having silly and creative fun, not about breaking the Community Guidelines. Let's do the same for the forums.

Za-Chary wrote:

To the Scratch Team, and the Scratch community: I am sorry if my participating in posting joke topics contributed to any resentment that you may have towards April Fools' Day.

I do agree that last year's April Fools' topics were a bit too vague and spammy but that doesn't mean we'll repeat it this year again. I wish the Scratch Team makes a detailed guide about what can be posted and what shouldn't. That way everyone who participates in this fun will know their limits, unlike previous years when there weren't any. This should significantly reduce the number of topics that are spammy, since Scratchers will take more time to think about a post. Or maybe including something like [Joke Topic] in the title is a good idea, since that will help people coming here for help (via Contact Us) easily differentiate between actual topics and joke ones.

Za-Chary wrote:

After some careful reflection, I can't help but feel that I contributed to the mess.

One reason I'm defending you here is that you actually helped clean up the topics (oh sorry, a LOT of the topics), meanwhile us Scratchers should feel more guilty since we didn't clean up any of the spam (and couldn't, so we should've refrained from making these topics anyways :/ )

So yeah, a concise set of rules for April Fools' is a good idea that could be considered…

Chiroyce wrote:

Za-Chary wrote:

To the Scratch Team, and the Scratch community: I am sorry if my participating in posting joke topics contributed to any resentment that you may have towards April Fools' Day.

I do agree that last year's April Fools' topics were a bit too vague and spammy but that doesn't mean we'll repeat it this year again. I wish the Scratch Team makes a detailed guide about what can be posted and what shouldn't. That way everyone who participates in this fun will know their limits, unlike previous years when there weren't any. This should significantly reduce the number of topics that are spammy, since Scratchers will take more time to think about a post. Or maybe including something like [Joke Topic] in the title is a good idea, since that will help people coming here for help (via Contact Us) easily differentiate between actual topics and joke ones.

Za-Chary wrote:

After some careful reflection, I can't help but feel that I contributed to the mess.

One reason I'm defending you here is that you actually helped clean up the topics (oh sorry, a LOT of the topics), meanwhile us Scratchers should feel more guilty since we didn't clean up any of the spam (and couldn't, so we should've refrained from making these topics anyways :/ )

So yeah, a concise set of rules for April Fools' is a good idea that could be considered…

Hey, thanks for all the thoughtful reflection! We haven't forgotten this issue and have been working on a set of guidelines that will hopefully address some of the concerns. It's getting close to completion

Za-Chary wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

I also don't think it's appropriate to justify being severely disruptive on April Fool's Day just because you were helping others on the forums (that's kind of a shallow reason to be helping others anyway).

I fully agree with this. The true mark of a kind helper is one who does not expect a reward for helping, other than the good feeling that you get for helping someone. Even if the Scratch Team takes a radical approach and disables the forums on April Fools' Day, so be it. That's not going to prevent me from helping out in the forums in the future. I don't help in the forums solely to look forward to April Fools' Day.

I didn't use the forums just to have fun on April fools day, I just think we should be rewarded with some fun on April fool's day, however, this is not the reason why I forum. It's like joining a study club (forums) at your school to help younger students to study, you don't do it just for the pizza party (April Fools) at the end of the year, but if the teacher says “I have decided to cancel the party because last year people left junks everywhere. (last year's April fool topic mess)” then I would still be very mad, especially if I wasn't even in the study club last year and never got to experience pizza party at school nor made the mess. (I joined the forums less than a year ago)

I will still get very mad if ST takes this privilege away from us, unlike you, I'm relatively new and I never got to experience April fool's day forums, and it's not even my fault that April fools topics were banned, because I never got a chance to make them, it just felt unfair.

Those who want a “break” from helping out in the forums can do so by not participating in the forums. Those who want to have silly fun times with others can do so in studios — I certainly think that's reasonable.

Studios isn't as fun as forums.
P. S. Get an ocular status, please.

HumanCalc7 wrote:

sharkode wrote:

cheddargirl wrote:

Don't do it. We don't want a repeat of last year where a lot of users were denied help because the forums got flooded and mods spent a lot of time cleaning up instead of other reports. You're better off making an April Fools project instead of a joke forum topic.

C'mon! There is only one April fool's day each year, we forumers were being like free customer support for ST for an entire year and we're all waiting for this day to have some fun, only for ST to go like “nope”. I'm pretty sure a ST member (Zachary) even created a joke topic a few years back, I entirely agree with what @dertermenter said, the April fool's topics is not that much of a problem if we don't intentionally harm people and close all the prank topics after April fool's day.

I can see why you want to have fun, but the forums are more for important topics rather than fun, and thus should not have spam such as April Fools topics. Doing this blocks out all of the topics that need to be addressed so that people have to wait for days to have their questions answered or maybe never receive an answer. If you wish to have fun on April Fools day, feel free to make projects and studios about it all you want, but the forums are for other things, so please keep April Fools topics out of the forums.

yes. i get they are for important topics, but there's also ways to meet new scratchers.

when I receive [eat chocolate]

say [yum!]

Paddle2See wrote:

Chiroyce wrote:

Za-Chary wrote:

To the Scratch Team, and the Scratch community: I am sorry if my participating in posting joke topics contributed to any resentment that you may have towards April Fools' Day.

I do agree that last year's April Fools' topics were a bit too vague and spammy but that doesn't mean we'll repeat it this year again. I wish the Scratch Team makes a detailed guide about what can be posted and what shouldn't. That way everyone who participates in this fun will know their limits, unlike previous years when there weren't any. This should significantly reduce the number of topics that are spammy, since Scratchers will take more time to think about a post. Or maybe including something like [Joke Topic] in the title is a good idea, since that will help people coming here for help (via Contact Us) easily differentiate between actual topics and joke ones.

Za-Chary wrote:

After some careful reflection, I can't help but feel that I contributed to the mess.

One reason I'm defending you here is that you actually helped clean up the topics (oh sorry, a LOT of the topics), meanwhile us Scratchers should feel more guilty since we didn't clean up any of the spam (and couldn't, so we should've refrained from making these topics anyways :/ )

So yeah, a concise set of rules for April Fools' is a good idea that could be considered…

Hey, thanks for all the thoughtful reflection! We haven't forgotten this issue and have been working on a set of guidelines that will hopefully address some of the concerns. It's getting close to completion

these guidelines… will they involve further restrictions on projects? if so, i do hope they dont make things harder for us scratchers. as i have noticed, some things do get banned because they defy the rules, but if you make too many, you may not be able to keep a stable learning enviroment. i get that you're working on an april fools day joke issue, but you may want to be careful. some scratchers may not like too many new guidelines, and that could get ugly…

when I receive [eat chocolate]

say [yum!]

slap83 wrote:

these guidelines… will they involve further restrictions on projects? if so, i do hope they dont make things harder for us scratchers. as i have noticed, some things do get banned because they defy the rules, but if you make too many, you may not be able to keep a stable learning enviroment. i get that you're working on an april fools day joke issue, but you may want to be careful. some scratchers may not like too many new guidelines, and that could get ugly…

No, they're only thinking about restricting the forums because of the spam last year. April fools with projects should remain the same as always.

Paddle2See wrote:

Hey, thanks for all the thoughtful reflection! We haven't forgotten this issue and have been working on a set of guidelines that will hopefully address some of the concerns. It's getting close to completion

Great! So, April Fools' topics won't be banned?

RL1123 wrote:

slap83 wrote:

these guidelines… will they involve further restrictions on projects? if so, i do hope they dont make things harder for us scratchers. as i have noticed, some things do get banned because they defy the rules, but if you make too many, you may not be able to keep a stable learning enviroment. i get that you're working on an april fools day joke issue, but you may want to be careful. some scratchers may not like too many new guidelines, and that could get ugly…

No, they're only thinking about restricting the forums because of the spam last year. April fools with projects should remain the same as always.

great

when I receive [eat chocolate]

say [yum!]

Never mind

The other forum moderators and I have talking over how we can find a balance between having some good-natured fun on April Fool's day without causing too much disruption to regular forum users - and without creating a ton of new work for our short-handed forum moderation team. Here's some guidelines that we hope will help:

Keep it fun! Nothing mean-spirted or dangerous, please. Creative and funny is appreciated; mildly annoying (like rick-rolls) is tolerated. Some creative ideas to celebrate April Fool's Day on the forums:
- have fun with your forum signature
- make a silly Scratch Project, and post a silly advertisement about it in Show and Tell

Don't break the forums. Some important parts of the forums support Scratchers looking for help. If there are too many topics or posts being created, their calls for help can get lost. Let's make sure we can hear them by not posting pranks topics or posts in the direct support forum sections: “Help with Scripts” and “Questions about Scratch”. Also, please no joke posts on serious topics - and no spamming topics. Go for quality, not quantity!

Clean up after the party. Please keep the clean-up process in mind as you are creating your pranks. All the fake topics that get created will need to be closed at some point. You can help by limiting the number of new topics created and closing your own topics once 24 hours have passed since topic creation.

Scratch on

Paddle2See wrote:

Go for quality, not quantity!

This is the best advice!! Keeps away spam and lets us have fun, thank you so much!!

Thanks, Paddle2See!