This is the same as https://github.com/LLK/scratch-www/issues/5537, but meant for the Scratch forum audience.


Note: This contains advanced topics, as it is a more technical suggestion. If you are confused, please don't worry.


Just recently, pull request #5495 was merged, implementing a 25-reply limit on Scratch studios.

This is potentially the most controversial update made to Scratch, if it is pushed to the main website, as is expected in mid-June.

However as many members of the Scratch community have expressed through forum posts (note that the link is not completely about this reply limit) and through comments in that PR, there are better solutions to these problems.

While we do not know the official reasoning behind this change, it is likely that it is one of two things:

• Moderation being difficult having to click “see more comments” many times
  
• Server performance
  

However, as many have pointed out, the first reason is quite invalid due to the fact that it will just make it harder to find the context of comments, which may make moderation harder, and also that client-side updates or moderation tools might be able to fix this problem without limiting replies in comment threads, by loading all replies at once.

The second reason, however, is quite valid. Every time you click “see more comments,” a new HTTP request is being sent, and this likely creates a high load on the Scratch servers. However, limiting replies is not the best solution to this.

I explain the inefficiencies of this more in-depth in the quoted comment I sent on the pull request:

AmazingMech2418 on GitHub wrote:

apple502j on GitHub wrote:

I'm still unsure if this change is actually helpful to solve one of the main issues (as mentioned above, finding the replies and knowing the context becomes harder.) However, it does sound like there are other concerns - perhaps server specs? - that are involved. I'm not going to bother with those things that I don't know, but I hope this change is actually helpful (and not uncomfortable for moderators who this PR intends to benefit mainly.)

Yeah, I think server specs might be an issue. One thing with the 3.0 API is that there are more individual requests when retrieving comments, so it would make sense if the server cannot handle that constant load, that it could potentially crash the server. I honestly think that might even be happening already with projects, given the “loading bug,” which essentially means that comment APIs are overly cached. It might be that the separate DB access points per request are putting greater load on the server, or even just the request handling. Maybe, though, a possible solution could be increasing the default maximum per request, or using almost a JSON port of the old scratchr2 API rather than the current 3.0 API? Honestly, that would probably be the most efficient since it would have fewer requests for the same number of comments, fewer separate DB access points, and also the faster speed of JSON-based requests, and the reduced size per request from the old XML-based versions. And maybe still keep the normal replies endpoint with the 3.0 API for messages, so it doesn't have to load the entire page, but use a single endpoint for the rest of the comments on updated pages.

Original source

While there are inefficiencies with this, the best solution is not to limit replying, but to improve the API. There was no reason for a limit under scratchr2, simply since all replies are sent at once, along with the base comments. Of course, the scratchr2 APIs for comments are slower since they use XML, which is much more verbose than JSON, but simply porting these APIs to JSON rather than requiring a request for the replies in each comment thread might ease the loads on the servers, without limiting Scratchers' abilities to reply to comments.

As I mentioned in the below quoted comment from the pull request, I also created a mockup of this JSON API:

AmazingMech2418 on GitHub wrote:

Here is the API mockup. This may be a better solution to this problem. https://gist.github.com/AmazingMech2418/f85160217c233ebaade8802a2aafcdd2

Of course it would be a bit of work to redesign the API, but at least with studios and profiles, since the 3.0 API hasn't been completely implemented yet, it might be better to switch to this instead.

Original source

With the best interest of the Scratch community in mind, I hope you review this suggestion as a possibility, rather than a nuisance in having to rewrite the APIs. In the long run, this will likely increase server efficiency, and improve the relationships between the Scratch Team and Scratch community, as have already been made quite tense over the past few years, which will overall create a more sustainable and healthy Scratch, both as a community and as an application.

To satisfy this issue, two things must be done:

• Revert #5495
  
• Implement a new API system that sends comments along with their replies, while still using a JSON format, similar to the Scratch 2.0 comment APIs.
  

Again, I hope you consider this a possibility, and hopefully follow through with it to make Scratch healthier and more sustainable in the long run.

why st
close the “make scratch illegal by sanctioning the CC license” topic before implementing the reply limit

W H Y THOUGH

when green flag clicked

say [ace is the place with the helpful hardware folks] for (2) secs

I fully support (due to my stepdad I understand a lot of complex and confusing programming terms).

Implementing a comment chain limit would destroy an entire Scratch community (roleplayers), make having conversations way harder, probably make some people leave, and force people to make new comment chains when they reach the limit; like you said, this would be counterproductive if they were using it to make moderation easier. If they were doing it to decrease lag/not take up so much server space, it would be productive, although if someone was like me and liked re-reading their longer comment chains many times…

Improving the API would be so much better in so many ways, plus it might even make some parts of the ST's work easier, idrk how all that works.

[offtopic]This post is way shorter than I hoped to make it[/offtopic]

WHY- JUST WHY

YeahYeahBeebiss1 wrote:

W H Y THOUGH

when green flag clicked

say [ace is the place with the helpful hardware folks] for (2) secs

Please don't blockspam.

I agree. This will be very frustrating for users, and it will likely make studio comments harder to moderate. I have a sneaking suspicion that this was partially done to make it harder for “chat studios” and RPs—the ST has expressed increasingly negative opinions surrounding “chat studios.” Hopefully the ST sees this and considers reversing this.

NOOO CMON- COME ON- devoted rper of like 4 years here??? W h y ST? Can we like spam the contact us with the claims against this? I don’t want to have this— in place

-Cosmic_Star- wrote:

NOOO CMON- COME ON- devoted rper of like 4 years here??? W h y ST? Can we like spam the contact us with the claims against this? I don’t want to have this— in place

Please don't spam Contact Us—that makes it harder for the Scratch Team members there to deal with actual reports.

-Cosmic_Star- wrote:

NOOO CMON- COME ON- devoted rper of like 4 years here??? W h y ST? Can we like spam the contact us with the claims against this? I don’t want to have this— in place

Please do not spam Contact Us. That just makes everything harder for the Scratch Team.

I think that, while I don't fully understand how the server works, that the limit may help, but not ultimately, because then, in the case of role players a new comment chain will be started, which won't actually solve the problem. I think that the limit is not necessary and will not fix the problem. Please acknowledge that I am just stating my opinion and don't actually know how the server works, nonetheless, please do not set 25 comment reply limit. I am a Role Player in some studios and couldn't imagine having to start a new chain after 25 replies. Please don't set a 25 reply limit!

AmazingMech2418 wrote:

-Cosmic_Star- wrote:

NOOO CMON- COME ON- devoted rper of like 4 years here??? W h y ST? Can we like spam the contact us with the claims against this? I don’t want to have this— in place

Please do not spam Contact Us. That just makes everything harder for the Scratch Team.

Ok ik

I think it would be great if they would revert this. I see how the feature may help with problems a bit, but I don't think it'll be enough to fix them, plus it will wreak havoc on amazing projects on scratch like roleplays and stories which require lots of replies. Not to mention that it's a big change to implement quickly, and there might be side effects like Scratch going down and Scratchers getting confused about it.

BUMP - we flipping need this :.)

I know everyone's saying this, but really, it's a pretty bad idea. Think of all the things that might be ruined! That sounds like an exaggeration, but really, do think about it. Role-plays, SWC (Scratch Writing Camp), and more! This might help ST and the website overall, but it's going to have a big impact on how things are done on scratch. So ST, if you're reading, please reconsider this.

artisticcreator34 wrote:

I know everyone's saying this, but really, it's a pretty bad idea. Think of all the things that might be ruined! That sounds like an exaggeration, but really, do think about it. Role-plays, SWC (Scratch Writing Camp), and more! This might help ST and the website overall, but it's going to have a big impact on how things are done on scratch. So ST, if you're reading, please reconsider this.

This isn't a suggestion to add the reply limit - it's already going to be added. This suggestion is to revert that change and instead focus on fixing the API.

Hello… I have ran a roleplay here for a year, and it has been the highlight of my time on Scratch, and I know everyone else loves roleplaying here too. The roleplays and fun will be destroyed if Scratch Team bans over 25 limit of comments. I would be horrified if my roleplay (which has run for over a year and is very active) gets destroyed in the process. I have met many of my closest Scratch friends through rolaplays, and they have improved me and helped my social skills a lot. They have always been there for me, and it would hurt me deeply to know that the next generation of Scratchers cannot experience what I have through roleplays. I know many others who would agree with me. Please don't set a limit on comments. I know I am only one person saying this, but I know hundreds of other people who agree with me on this. I beg you not to limit the comments. Thank you for taking your time to read this, and I hope you all have a wonderful day.

Oh my god the number of unrelated posts on this topic

I completely support this, the reply limit would likely supress any real conversation.

Also, I really want there to be a way to get comments as JSON data, normally you have to parse HTML to do that, and that's really just… not not not good. This would make getting comments so much easier.

Blazewing202 wrote:

Hello… I have ran a roleplay here for a year, and it has been the highlight of my time on Scratch, and I know everyone else loves roleplaying here too. The roleplays and fun will be destroyed if Scratch Team bans over 25 limit of comments. I would be horrified if my roleplay (which has run for over a year and is very active) gets destroyed in the process. I have met many of my closest Scratch friends through rolaplays, and they have improved me and helped my social skills a lot. They have always been there for me, and it would hurt me deeply to know that the next generation of Scratchers cannot experience what I have through roleplays. I know many others who would agree with me. Please don't set a limit on comments. I know I am only one person saying this, but I know hundreds of other people who agree with me on this. I beg you not to limit the comments. Thank you for taking your time to read this, and I hope you all have a wonderful day.

the scratch team already implemented the reply limit

ScratchCatHELLO wrote:

Blazewing202 wrote:

Hello… I have ran a roleplay here for a year, and it has been the highlight of my time on Scratch, and I know everyone else loves roleplaying here too. The roleplays and fun will be destroyed if Scratch Team bans over 25 limit of comments. I would be horrified if my roleplay (which has run for over a year and is very active) gets destroyed in the process. I have met many of my closest Scratch friends through rolaplays, and they have improved me and helped my social skills a lot. They have always been there for me, and it would hurt me deeply to know that the next generation of Scratchers cannot experience what I have through roleplays. I know many others who would agree with me. Please don't set a limit on comments. I know I am only one person saying this, but I know hundreds of other people who agree with me on this. I beg you not to limit the comments. Thank you for taking your time to read this, and I hope you all have a wonderful day.

the scratch team already implemented the reply limit

so r i p rps