The Show and Tell forum has long been a place for users to advertise their projects and studios - posts generally consist of a brief description of the subject, a picture, occasional blockspam, and eager pleas from OP to visit their link. How-to posts sometimes pop up, and of recent, the forum has become a popular place for save code/level sharing threads. The latter has become problematic, in my opinion.

Save codes are an incredible thing to implement into your project. Increasing engagement, users can save their creations/progress and are likely to revisit so they can view others' work or continue where they left off. When done correctly, they're also self-advertising - users ‘bump’ a thread to post their save code, sending it back to the front page of Show & Tell thus exposing the post to more people. It's a perfect feedback loop.

So .. what's the issue?

The problem lies in the content and effort put into these types of threads. Rather than advertising the project, initial posts often begin with “Post your save codes here!” or “The old one was closed, new codes go here!” which holds little informational value to users seeing it bumped several times a day. There's also the content of save codes themselves, rarely do users describe what they're posting, eg. “This is a picture of a flower” or “My level 6 save code,” instead opting for multiple lines of this:

123100246317526123151244101068950816894883435980101001832023245330241978330136993299419962634152833034203131303380241258220033842262202643306228330826425922213122162173304264323713241142520247029023415152150311913120327203170032430311026133181331010330822729614330425524123532552223295339532983

or this:

1235176196Z2Z399Z10Z1Z2Z188Z1Z4Z2Z3Z10Z1Z2Z8Z1Z5Z25Z1Z2Z2Z19Z1Z11Z3Z2Z2Z1Z2Z7Z1Z2Z1Z7Z1Z1Z2Z25Z1Z1Z3Z12Z1Z19Z1Z1Z4Z19Z1Z12Z1Z1Z1Z61Z1Z1Z3Z2Z5Z13Z1Z1Z4Z60Z1Z1Z3Z13Z1Z2Z15Z1Z116Z4Z3Z1Z1Z10Z2Z3Z2Z2Z3Z1Z8Z2Z1Z1Z4Z2Z1Z1Z22Z45Z1Z1Z3Z2Z3Z13Z1Z1Z10Z13Z1Z2Z14Z1Z112Z10Z4Z2Z3Z1Z2Z10Z1Z33Z1Z10Z1Z33Z1Z2Z1Z

or this:

77:20:5:113:-77:21:5:113:-77:22:5:113:-77:23:6:164:-80:24:6:164:-80:25:6:164:-80:26:6:164:-80:27:7:216:-87:28:7:216:-87:29:5:182:-39:30:5:182:-39:31:5:182:-39:32:5:182:-39:33:5:182:-39:34:5:182:-39:35:5:182:-40:36:5:182:-45:37:5:182:-47:38:5:182:-49:39:5:184:-51:40:5:186:-55:41:5:186:-55:42:5:188:-58:43:5:190:-63:44:5:190:-65:45:5:190:-65:46:5:191:-

They're not particularly informative, funny or useful to those who have no idea what the project is about. Instead, these threads are valuable for users who have already viewed the project and click on the topic link in the Notes & Credits seeking to share & find others' creations/save codes.

As I type this post, 11 of the 16 topics in Show and Tell are savecode threads.

While there's currently no better place for them, the impact they have is dramatic. The forum is transforming from a place to discover new projects to a game of dodge the savecode thread. Project advertisements and their ensuing discussion are being outnumbered by posts containing this gibberish. Why would anyone want to browse Show and Tell when you have to “speak computer” to understand what's going on?

I propose splitting Show and Tell into two subforums:

• Save Codes & Level Sharing - All threads containing save codes & level sharing codes go here. Applicable posts currently in Show and Tell should be transferred the new forum to maintain continuity.
  

• Show and Tell - A place to tell everyone about your projects and studios. Essentially what the forum was pre-2020.
  

Many have suggested a different forum name. Take a look at the below suggestions, and let us know your thoughts.

I can see how “Show and Tell” is being dominated by these high-volume topics. It would be better for other Scratchers if these kinds of topics were isolated. I do wonder if we can come up with a better name though - something that better explains what it is all about. Maybe “Project User Data” or “Project Level and Save Codes”? We would still need to have a sticky topic to further explain, I expect, but that's not a big deal.

It’s been so… overcrowded to a point where it IS a save level topic and not a show and tell topic. Although save code topics can be useful, as it’s nice playing others games and these codes can’t fit in the comment limit. However, that’s not really what show and tell is about, that’s for a way to advertise to get some views, which may give confidence out, encouraging the user to continue with scratch, and get constructive feedback at the same time: two big things on this website which are encouraged a lot.

But with these topics overcrowding the show and tell forum, actual posts advertising will not get attention, meaning less views, less feedback, resulting in the forum being… useless…

So these save codes need to find another place. However, I do think the title you’ve provided is quite clunky and long, and I do prefer the title of “project codes”, even if it’s less clearer. You can explain a bit in the description anyway about what that forum is for.

The lazy way by the ST would be to delete these topics, but as said above, the are also good. I do think that this is a time a new forum can be added for this.

I hope you like my ideas

Even though I don't use the forum a lot, support if you name it what @Paddle2See said .

Paddle2See wrote:

I do wonder if we can come up with a better name though - something that better explains what it is all about. Maybe “Project User Data” or “Project Level and Save Codes”?

A good idea that doesn't break up the flow of the forum list.

Help With Scripts Need help with your Scratch project? Ask here!
Show and Tell Tell everyone about your projects and studios.
Project User Data Topics to share project level & save codes.
Project Ideas A place to give and get help thinking of project ideas.
Collaboration Join with others to work together on Scratch projects!
Requests Looking for something? Want to offer your skills to others?

Was also considering User-generated Codes / Content / Data (either/or) but you'll end up with a multi line description.

If the name were “Project User Data,” what would go in that forum topic other than level codes and save codes? If those are the only two possibilities for topics in that forum, I think “Project Save Codes” would be a better title, or something similar

Za-Chary wrote:

If the name were “Project User Data,” what would go in that forum topic other than level codes and save codes? If those are the only two possibilities for topics in that forum, I think “Project Save Codes” would be a better title, or something similar

i like the names “Project Save Codes” or “Project Save Data” or maybe even “Project Data Codes”.

it also could allow guides and stuff on adding save codes to projects (they would probably have to be stickied to avoid going under all of the massive save code topics).

It's cool to see ST support for this suggestion! I personally support it as well; hopefully it can bring back “normal” usage of the Show and Tell forums.

Jeffalo wrote:

i like the names “Project Save Codes” or “Project Save Data” or maybe even “Project Data Codes”.

I also like these names.

Support. A good chunk of the first few pages are just save code topics that are pretty much always on the front page, but with this new projects could actually get attention.

Support for reasons above

Semi-Support. I know these save code topics are the ONLY things on the front page. (My music show and tell page vanishes from the front page in under a minute) I do have to say that a “Level sharing” subforum doesn't really fit with the rest of the subforums

The_5th_Scratcher wrote:

I do have to say that a “Level sharing” subforum doesn't really fit with the rest of the subforums

Level Sharing was probably clumsy wording on my part. Most posts refer to it as “level codes,” “save codes” and occasionally “backup codes.”

Jeffalo wrote:

Za-Chary wrote:

If the name were “Project User Data,” what would go in that forum topic other than level codes and save codes? If those are the only two possibilities for topics in that forum, I think “Project Save Codes” would be a better title, or something similar

i like the names “Project Save Codes” or “Project Save Data” or maybe even “Project Data Codes”

I reckon the first two would be universally understood. For what it's worth, the wiki pages refer to the process as Saving Data, but this can always be changed to reflect the forum name.

Za-Chary wrote:

If the name were “Project User Data,” what would go in that forum topic other than level codes and save codes? If those are the only two possibilities for topics in that forum, I think “Project Save Codes” would be a better title, or something similar

I like that, it's short enough, and really captures the essence of the forum

Support!
Maybe the topics that deserve some attention would get more if it was less cluttered!

Maybe we could also add an Account Advertising section, a Studio, and Profile Page!

han614698 wrote:

Support!
Maybe the topics that deserve some attention would get more if it was less cluttered!

No, they wouldn't, unless every forumer collectively decided to browse Show and Tell for the fun of it. I think that instead of splitting Show and Tell, Show and Tell should just be replaced. It's obvious that most people are not using it for the intended purpose and those who do just waste their time. A forum to post random links is not much better than a forum to post random save codes.

fdreerf wrote:

Show and Tell should just be replaced. It's obvious that most people are not using it for the intended purpose and those who do just waste their time. A forum to post random links is not much better than a forum to post random save codes.

The viability of a topic depends entirely on the effort put into it, and there's multiple non-savecode threads yielding hundreds of views proving this. Here are some great examples:

• https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/500454/
  

• https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/240817/
  

• https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/503666/
  

• https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/501350
  

Ignoring this, at least it acts as a good place to divert spam and advertising away from profiles and projects. While ‘Advertise Here’ studios exist, they lack the creative freedom that BBCode enables, and I'd say they fall into the same mould as ‘Add Everything’ studios.

Regarding your below assertion that the popularity of a topic is purely based on the popularity of its creator, I disagree. It may hold some influence, but again, post views and follower counts are largely a reflection of the effort and quality put into these posts and projects.

Techno-CAT wrote:

• https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/500454/
  

• https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/240817/
  

• https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/503666/
  

• https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/501350
  

All of these are made by people who have hundreds, even thousands of followers, and even then, these are nothing compared to save code topics. The popularity of a topic is based on the popularity of the person who made it, not by the effort put into it, and because of that, 90% of Show and Tell topics are just sad, lonely topics,

Techno-CAT wrote:

Ignoring this, at least it acts as a good place to divert spam and advertising away from profiles and projects.

This would be true had the forums not be relatively unknown amongst Scratchers. Some projects can get more advertisements in an hour than Show and Tell gets in a day. There are enough “advertise your projects here” studios to supercede Show and Tell.

fdreerf wrote:

… The popularity of a topic is based on the popularity of the person who made it, not by the effort put into it, and because of that, 90% of Show and Tell topics are just sad, lonely topics

I resemble that. Several days ago I posted a topic about my project and after six days it is on page 22 and has been virtually ignored. I do feel that it is indeed a sad, lonely topic.

Mitch Resnick’s Creative Learning Spiral is broken for me. I’d like my taxpayer money back. Please ask Mitch to send me a check.

(Back on track now)

I’ve never like the spirit of “Show and Tell - the place for advertising” because it has such a merchandizing spirit and goal. This is the place where you go to try and get something from someone such as their time or love. It’s the want ads: “Please buy my used car”.

I’d rather you had a forum name and description that told the community what you expect from all of us and that your expectation of us was more centered on the purpose of Scratch.

My suggest for a name and description is “The Reflection Forum” - Share your projects and studios and help others reflect.

Fdreerf does have a point: even if the save code topics are removed, the actual show and tell topics don’t get much views or attention anyway, so is necessary after all?

I still think it can be, I think the topics there may attract a bit more attention and it will make the forums more organised.

Support. SaT is cluttered. Most of the times we don't want to see level codes when we rarely browse SaT, but actually projects, so SaT would really benefit from that