Discuss Scratch

bharvey
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

frodewin wrote:

Are there any news on the social-media site?
Yes, sadly, we need another round of back end development, it turns out. So, it's still going to happen, but probably not until the fall some time.

Some other time constraints: Jens is almost ready with a complete sprite OOP implementation, but not quite. He expects to finish this month. If so, he will publish a “release candidate” that people can and should poke at, and try to break. But then, like the rest of Europe, he goes on vacation for August, so even if it seems totally ready, he's not going to make it the official release until after he gets back. He said he was planning a September official release, but I vetoed that on behalf of all American school teachers, who have a million other crises to contend with in September without an unfamiliar Snap!, plus it'd be really hard for us to separate out genuine bug reports from the slew of user errors that always happen in September. So the official 4.1 (although Jens says it's amazing enough that we should call it 5.0) is tentatively planned for October.

And we don't want to introduce the new back end at the same time as OOP, because otherwise Jens and Miosoft will end up pointing fingers at each other about any reported bugs; it'll be much cleaner to have two separate big changes. So we are now looking at November, supposing all goes smoothly.

Yeah, none of us like this either; we were all hoping to have everything ready in the summer. Sorry!

(You asked at just the right moment; I'm just back in my hotel room after a summit meeting in the beautiful pedestrian-street area of Bordeaux with Jens and Bernat (and John Maloney, because before I got there it was a GP summit meeting). (John paid for my Coke Zero along with everyone else's drinks so I promised not to bug him about lambda in GP this week.)

andre_ani
New to Scratch
2 posts

Snap! user discussion

Hello,

I would like to know if it's possible to add a new scripting language to Snap. I'm interesting to OpenSim and the scripting language OSL/LSL.
Is there a documentation or tuto about this please ? I've not find anything on the net…

Thanks a lot,
Cordially,

Andre_Ani
andre_ani
New to Scratch
2 posts

Snap! user discussion

Hello,

I'm not sure to post in the good place, so excuse me.
I'm searching tuto or documentation on how to add scripting language in Snap, for OpenSim for exemple.

If you could help me, perhaps ?

Thanks,
Have a nice day,

Andre_Ani

bharvey
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

andre_ani wrote:

I'm searching tuto or documentation on how to add scripting language in Snap, for OpenSim for example.
I'm not sure I understand the question. Snap! is its own scripting language. Do you want to use another language to modify Snap!? Since it runs in a browser, it's written in Javascript; if you wanted to use another language you'd have to provide a JS-based interpreter for that language, I think.

blob8108
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

bharvey wrote:

I'm not sure I understand the question.
Presumably they’re asking about codification?
bonob0h
New to Scratch
1 post

Snap! user discussion

bharvey wrote:

andre_ani wrote:

I'm searching tuto or documentation on how to add scripting language in Snap, for OpenSim for example.
I'm not sure I understand the question. Snap! is its own scripting language. Do you want to use another language to modify Snap!? Since it runs in a browser, it's written in Javascript; if you wanted to use another language you'd have to provide a JS-based interpreter for that language, I think.

I think it means programming a language with snap. Like programming in arduino with snap
Ihaveexpectations
Scratcher
100+ posts

Snap! user discussion

bharvey wrote:

saofan123 wrote:

why is it licensed under the agpl instead of the gpl?
The AGPL is for web services, such as Snap!. The notion of “distribution” in the plain GPL is about letting you download a copy of the executable program to your computer, so it says you have to distribute the source in the same way that you distribute the executable. For a web service there is typically no distribution of executable code, so the language is different.
Isn't Snap! a web application not a web service?

Posting that someone else's post didn't add anything to the discussion doesn't add anything to the discussion.

Never have expectations, and you will never be disappointed.

https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/post/2724251/
Jonathan50
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

Ihaveexpectations wrote:

bharvey wrote:

saofan123 wrote:

why is it licensed under the agpl instead of the gpl?
The AGPL is for web services, such as Snap!. The notion of “distribution” in the plain GPL is about letting you download a copy of the executable program to your computer, so it says you have to distribute the source in the same way that you distribute the executable. For a web service there is typically no distribution of executable code, so the language is different.
Isn't Snap! a web application not a web service?
^^ Snap! being AGPL doesn't really make a difference because when somebody uses Snap! it is downloaded to your computer and ran there, so the GPL already prevents you from modifying Snap! and putting it on a server with the modified version only in minified/obfuscated/compiled form.

ae2d2bcb-e9e3-4f9c-a847-290d71bd8bfd 222ec087-6694-42cf-8c41-064e9066f004
bharvey
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

Oh, Well, if that's true, it's AGPL so that people who are iffy on the distinction between a web service and a web application will know that it's free software.

Ihaveexpectations
Scratcher
100+ posts

Snap! user discussion

bharvey wrote:

Oh, Well, if that's true, it's AGPL so that people who are iffy on the distinction between a web service and a web application will know that it's free software.
How does it being AGPL instead of GPL make it more obvious to people that it's free software?

Posting that someone else's post didn't add anything to the discussion doesn't add anything to the discussion.

Never have expectations, and you will never be disappointed.

https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/post/2724251/
bharvey
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

Ihaveexpectations wrote:

How does it being AGPL instead of GPL make it more obvious to people that it's free software?
Oh lord don't you know it never works to explain a joke?

You guys started this discussion of web app vs. web service, which I had never thought about, I just figured Snap! lives on the web, not on your computer, so AGPL. The “people iffy on the distinction” means me, and maybe other old people like me.

BookOwl
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

bharvey wrote:

Ihaveexpectations wrote:

How does it being AGPL instead of GPL make it more obvious to people that it's free software?
Oh lord don't you know it never works to explain a joke?

You guys started this discussion of web app vs. web service, which I had never thought about, I just figured Snap! lives on the web, not on your computer, so AGPL. The “people iffy on the distinction” means me, and maybe other old people like me.
OR you could just use the Unlicense and free yourself and your code from petty GPL restrictions.

who needs signatures
djdolphin
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

BookOwl wrote:

OR you could just use the Unlicense and free yourself and your code from petty GPL restrictions.
Those “petty” restrictions are sort of the point, aren't they? To ensure that improvements to Snap! are shared?
bharvey
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

djdolphin wrote:

BookOwl wrote:

OR you could just use the Unlicense and free yourself and your code from petty GPL restrictions.
Those “petty” restrictions are sort of the point, aren't they? To ensure that improvements to Snap! are shared?
Indeed. Really, Snap! is unlikely ever to be a plausible money-maker for a hypothetical encloser, so in my view GPLing it is an exercise in movement-building. (It was my idea; Jens would more readily agree with BookOwl.) But if gcc or the Linux kernel were unlicensed you can be sure that it would have been enclosed by now.

So far, we haven't had any proposed uses of Snap! that would be forbidden by the license. The main commercial uses have been (1) hardware manufacturers who want to control their hardware from Snap!, who make their money selling hardware, not software, and can happily live with GPLing the little bit of software they have to write to make it work; (2) people who want to include Snap! projects in a collection of educational software; and, least common, (3) people who want to sell proprietary Snap! projects, which is frowned upon but not ruled out unless they want to distribute them by way of the Snap! cloud.

On BookOwl's side of the argument, we have occasionally had people contact us because they were timid about potential licensing issues even though their proposed use was perfectly okay. It could be argued that perhaps other timid people just gave up without contacting us.

On djdolphin's side of the argument (note in passing how I have rhetorically positioned myself as above the argument by phrasing it that way), to describe as “petty” the whole issue of copyright protection handwaves away the question of how society can support artistic and technical creators. It's a complicated question. “Support” doesn't necessarily mean money; for Stallman it has meant ensuring that his work doesn't end up enclosed by some future Microsoft. That's what he needs to be willing to put his time and effort into creating software. (It's a little ironic, I think, that I, with a guaranteed lifetime income from the State of California, am the one on the side of protective free licensing, while Jens, who works in the private sector and therefore always has to worry about putting food on the table, is the one who is willing simply to put his work in the public domain.)

djdolphin
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

Thought I'd link this here: https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/271892/

Edit - Another one: https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/271896/

Last edited by djdolphin (July 29, 2017 19:21:38)

Dale_Mahalko
New to Scratch
49 posts

Snap! user discussion

In the future I will put aliases to my “outside” threads in here. I want my discussions to be searchable and browseable in a normal manner like in a normal forum. Not lost in this single unmanaged mess of messages.

Scratch forum » Advanced Topics » Snap!: Doesn't have its own forum? It's not even pinned here?
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/271892/

Scratch forum » Advanced Topics » Snap!: Bad characters in account signup?
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/271896/
Dale_Mahalko
New to Scratch
49 posts

Snap! user discussion

Discussion Forums » Advanced Topics » Snap!: Lack of cursor / object coordinate reporting?
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/271901
bharvey
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

Dale_Mahalko wrote:

Discussion Forums » Advanced Topics » Snap!: Lack of cursor / object coordinate reporting?
Both sprite x/y coordinate reporters and mouse x/y ditto have checkboxes in the palette to put watchers onstage. As for the screen coordinates, I find it useful to import the “xy-grid” costume (File>Costumes) during program development.

About your other problem, if Snap! crashed altogether, please file a bug report on Github. If you are requesting an enhancement that will leave the account-creation dialog open following that error, that's best done on Github too. (https://github.com/jmoenig/Snap–Build-Your-Own-Blocks/issues) Please make it clear which this is.

Hardmath123
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

Brian, to be clear, I think Dale's account-creation-dialog problem is the following. (By the way, I've encountered this before as well.)

1) When you choose your username, certain reasonable-sounding characters — presumably “underscore”, in this case — cause an error dialog, which crucially does not say which character is bad.

2) This error dialog destroys the signup form, so to try again, a user must re-enter all of the information. This can be frustrating because you aren't quite sure what to change this time.

From a user-interface point of view, I think these are both reasonable complaints — possibly not worth Jens' time to deal with, but perhaps someone on the dev forum can contribute a patch? Number 2 at least should be easy: since the error originates server-side, and afaik the server is closed-source, number 1 is harder for one of us to solve without guessing at the valid character set.
bharvey
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Snap! user discussion

Ah. Feel free to create a PR (against dev) for not closing the original dialog box after the error.

As for the other part, we can ask Miosoft what characters are allowed! If we were really clever, maybe we could just not echo those characters when typed into that field.

Powered by DjangoBB

Standard | Mobile