Scratch and China (Discussion on Recent Website Block)

Byron_Inc

SausageMcSauce wrote:
Byron_Inc wrote:
Flowermanvista wrote:
miagupta wrote:
What can we do
First, the ST has to figure out why China banned the site, and then make whatever changes that China would want. If this includes censoring anti-CCP viewpoints or anything from the West, they'd have to do that too (the ST, in that case, would probably just deal with losing their Chinese users).

It might not sound fair, but that's because authoritarian regimes with massive amounts of leverage don't play fair.
Well, it's because there's content that's about Free Hong Kong and No Chinese content on Scratch. I'm an active user in the Chinese sub-forum, so I know about this. I even saw the video that triggered all this mess.

Just a question, what did the video contain (unless it mostly contains content not allowed on Scratch)?

Free Hong Kong (So the last king of the Qing Dynasty sold HK to UK with only $1 per year for 100 years in 1897. Now, 123 years after, HK belongs to China again, but the you haters there want to be ruled by UK. The Chiense government probably don't want people to know about the HK youth.)
No Chinese (This is obvious. Some even said, “China is *!”)

And other stuff the Chinese government want to hide from their folks.

Last edited by Byron_Inc (Aug. 14, 2020 14:15:21)

Byron_Inc

DownsGameClub wrote:
Maximouse wrote:
DownsGameClub wrote:
I'm curious: what about Scratch is disrespectful about China? Please keep in mind many of us do not come from there so it's somewhat hard to get the full context of your point of view.
Probably Hong Kong and Taiwan being listed as countries during registration.
But that's been on the site for years. Why would they now block the site?

Because they just realised about it, as a user made a video on *Something similar to YouTube that is used in China*.

DownsGameClub

SausageMcSauce wrote:
Byron_Inc wrote:
(…)
Well, it's because there's content that's about Free Hong Kong and No Chinese content on Scratch. I'm an active user in the Chinese sub-forum, so I know about this. I even saw the video that triggered all this mess.

Just a question, what did the video contain (unless it mostly contains content not allowed on Scratch)?

I skimmed the Chinese forums, and it appears to be this video that was uploaded over on BiliBili (a Chinese version of YouTube). For context, this comes from a source named 「四度视频」, lit. Four Degrees Video, which appears to be a short-video type news source.

The translated description (via Google Translate) of the video is as follows:

Four Degrees wrote:
Recently, Four Degrees Video received reports from parents that the official website of the scratch platform, a children’s programming tool commonly used in children’s programming education in China, contains a lot of content that insults China, spreads rumors, and discredited China, and the platform is even included in some provinces and cities as an open source platform. Promoted in the primary school information technology textbook. As an open source platform, does the developer’s ideology affect platform users? Is it possible to penetrate further? Children's programming is an outlet, but it cannot be a “monster”. The localization of the underlying architecture and application platform of programming education should be put on the agenda as soon as possible.

Essentially, the video is about how the Scratch Website supposedly promoted things that tended against China's current polices, especially the “One China Principle,” in which the only “China” that exists is the Mainland and it governs its territories (i.e. Hong-Kong, Taiwan, and Macau). The video describes different complaints about the different ways this policy has been breached by Scratch, particularly:

Taiwan and Hong Kong are listed as separate regions from China (a big no-no when dealing with anything China these days…)
Projects and Studio promoting the current Hong Kong's movement (“Five Demands, Not One Less”)
Projects failing to put Taiwan on a map of China, especially on a “Learn Chinese” project (this part confuses me the most - they should have done more research in understanding the project wasn't directed at defaming China in any sense)
Projects putting the blame on China's government for various things, such as the US-China Trade War (was mentioned in the video, but this is outside the One China Policy stuffs)

Honestly, I'm very surprised they decided to follow through on the decision to ban Scratch. But I guess they thought the free speech that was allowed on the website went a bit too far…

(Edit: Thanks @Broyn_Inc for the spelling correction)

Last edited by DownsGameClub (Aug. 14, 2020 16:25:09)

Byron_Inc

It's not BliBli. It's BiliBili. And I'm not sure if you're actually allowed to post it here.
Ahh, yes. The weird relationship between China and Taiwan, Macao and HK. It's one country, two types of rules.

Last edited by Byron_Inc (Aug. 14, 2020 14:38:58)

Xoffhia

Goodbye -Zyte-

PrincessPandaLover

RIP me
Scratch user in China 2015-8
Expect me to post on Baidu Tieba on the future

PROPOSED SUGGESTION:
If the site detects the user's location to be in China, the site blocks content that is found to be sensitive under China's policy, with a message like “This project/studio is not available for viewing in your region in accordance with local policy”. Certain keywords are censored if site detects user to be in China.
Change Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Macau to China - Hong Kong, China - Taiwan, and China - Macau.

Last edited by PrincessPandaLover (Aug. 14, 2020 15:45:24)

garnet-chan

REEEEEEEE ZYTE'S ALIVE

4096bits

garnet-chan wrote:
REEEEEEEE ZYTE'S ALIVE

Yup.
somebody please get us back on topic

-Zyte-

Xoffhia wrote:
Goodbye -Zyte-

Yeah dont worry i have this thing that i hope i dont get sent to jail for using.

Yeah, sad. I think it was like as of yesterday cst 11pm that it happened.
I don't really know what to say about this but it's sad.

4096bits

-Zyte- wrote:
Xoffhia wrote:
Goodbye -Zyte-
Yeah dont worry i have this thing that i hope i dont get sent to jail for using.

I don't think so.

Last edited by 4096bits (Aug. 14, 2020 15:58:31)

-Zyte-

4096bits wrote:
-Zyte- wrote:
Xoffhia wrote:
Goodbye -Zyte-
Yeah dont worry i have this thing that i hope i dont get sent to jail for using.
I don't think so.

lol yay! but im not using an vpn tho… something better

but its so slow and too techy for me to understand

Last edited by -Zyte- (Aug. 14, 2020 16:05:58)

DownsGameClub

-Zyte- wrote:
4096bits wrote:
-Zyte- wrote:
Xoffhia wrote:
Goodbye -Zyte-
Yeah dont worry i have this thing that i hope i dont get sent to jail for using.
I don't think so.
lol yay! but im not using an vpn tho… something better
but its so slow and too techy for me to understand

I'm glad you're still able to access the website now.

PrincessPandaLover wrote:
Change Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Macau to China - Hong Kong, China - Taiwan, and China - Macau.

It's already been stated here that Scratch will not be following through with this.

On a personal note, I will refuse to support a website that suddenly decides to agree with the policy that a land that has been operating completely independent from the PRC for over half a century is still considered part of China.

NOTANO0B

ThatOneWeirdDude wrote:
china ccp doesnt deserve respect but ok

citizens do, gov…not if we went by the golden rule

DownsGameClub

NOTANO0B wrote:
ThatOneWeirdDude wrote:
china ccp doesnt deserve respect but ok
citizens do, gov…not if we went by the golden rule

Just a heads up, I believe we had a topic merge, so there might be some out-is-context posts. (That explains why the post looked so familiar but I couldn’t find the topic

)

scratch978654

DownsGameClub wrote:
Maximouse wrote:
DownsGameClub wrote:
I'm curious: what about Scratch is disrespectful about China? Please keep in mind many of us do not come from there so it's somewhat hard to get the full context of your point of view.
Probably Hong Kong and Taiwan being listed as countries during registration.
But that's been on the site for years. Why would they now block the site?

Because of the new security law.

leahcimto

Aw man! We are going to lose a LOT of scratchers!

DancingNekoGirl

leahcimto wrote:
Aw man! We are going to lose a LOT of scratchers!

True, I just welcomed a new Scratcher from China. What I believe is that they shouldn't ban a coding site just because the leaders can't get along…

leahcimto

DancingNekoGirl wrote:
leahcimto wrote:
Aw man! We are going to lose a LOT of scratchers!
True, I just welcomed a new Scratcher from China. What I believe is that they shouldn't ban a coding site just because the leaders can't get along…

I agree.

pavcato

leahcimto wrote:
DancingNekoGirl wrote:
leahcimto wrote:
Aw man! We are going to lose a LOT of scratchers!
True, I just welcomed a new Scratcher from China. What I believe is that they shouldn't ban a coding site just because the leaders can't get along…
I agree.

Yep, the actual numbers of people from China are about 20k -30k but that's still a lot of people being banned.

Basic88

Goodbye -Zyte-

Well, is there any strong evidence, or it this just a rumor?

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