Changing the display order in the topic list (Sticky -> open -> closed)

inoking

Background:
The closed (gray) topics still remain in the topic list.
Sometimes, inappropriate topics (off-topic, duplicate topic, …) are closed by the Scratch Team.
They disturb us (especially newcomers) to find existing topics.

Especially, its influence is critical in the localized topics, which have no sub categories.

For example, the Japanese forum is occupied by many closed (inappropriate) topics.
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/?page=2
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/?page=3

Suggestion:
I suggest moving closed topics to later pages (e.g. page 100. https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/?page=100).
It means changing the display order in the topic list like below.

Sticky topics
:
open topics
:
closed topics

Each groups are sorted by the current rule (latest changed -> oldest changed).

This change will enable the topic list to be more clear.
There is no risk to non-chaotic forum.

Technical matter:
According to the source code of DjangoBB,
https://github.com/slav0nic/djangobb/blob/master/djangobb_forum/views.py#L337

def show_forum(request, forum_id, full=True):
	:
	topics = forum.topics.order_by('-sticky', '-updated').select_related()
	:

I think that only the following change is need to realize this suggestion.

topics = forum.topics.order_by('-sticky', 'closed', '-updated').select_related()  # 2019/07/11 revised : -closed -> closed

Last edited by inoking (July 11, 2019 11:53:09)

CatsUnited

Support. It would help push off topics that have been closed but still occupy the first page, which is just wasting space when a more relevant, open discussion can be there instead, and seeing how easily the fix probably is, I can't think of any disadvantage to it.

Also I've never taken notice of the other langauges part of the Scratch forums, but the Japanese forum is actually quite active.

apple502j

bump

foo-eta

Support. At Japanese forum, closed topics often occupy the first page. It's a great idea to solve this issue.

Troyer_Kem

Support. Closed topics are just filling first page. This would solve the problem.

StrangeMagic32

No support - Semi

Sounds nice, but there are too many issues forcing it on everyone.
I for one wouldn't like it as much, because I sometimes want to see what's been closed.

DownsGameClub

Forums don't typically do this. Topics are ordered by the latest post in chronological order, so naturally they'll go down the list (assuming every single open topic is necropsied which we obviously don't want).

Now, I don't think this is such a terrible idea. But I feel there are some pretty good reasons why a closing statement should be read before people move on.

itnkmkw

I think that for sort out the topics, it's very good idea!

CatsUnited

StrangeMagic32 wrote:
No support - Semi

Sounds nice, but there are too many issues forcing it on everyone.
I for one wouldn't like it as much, because I sometimes want to see what's been closed.

Now that I've looked at the suggestion some more, this is definitely something that would be most ideal on something like the Japanese forum as mentioned by the OP and most of the supporters of this suggestion, where there seem to be a lot of closed topics. I don't know how effective something like that would be for the standard forums.

inoking

Thanks for comments.

I think the demerits of this suggestion are below:
A. It will make us be more difficult to find the closed topics.
B. Sometimes, other users can know the reason why a topic is closed, by the closed topics.

There is a workaround for A.
Users can mark the beginning page of the closed topics (it doesn't change so often).
So, they can easily find that topics by navigating a few pages.

Anyway,
If the system can change sort rule for each forum, It might be the best!

mi9g0n

I want this sort method too.
I think that more scratcher want to see open topics than closed topics.
And if there are just only open topics in page, it's easier to see than now when we want to look open topics.
I think it is useful too when you want to get a list of closed topics .
(I'm usualy using Japanese forum)

bigpuppy

Looking at the replies to the suggestion, what about a button you can press to see the closed topics rather than moving them to another page? I don't know whether, when you click it, it should show them among the open topics or just among other closed topics, but I think that might be a good compromise. By default, it could only show open topics. It would be more hard to code than the other options, though.

Also, you mentioned how there are inappropriate closed topics in the Japanese forum. Then shouldn't they be sent to the dustbin forum instead of simply closed?

sowut123

Support. Honestly, the Japanese forum looks like a mess.

axisjack

inoking wrote:
I think that only the following change is need to realize this suggestion.
topics = forum.topics.order_by('-sticky', 'closed', '-updated').select_related()  # 2019/07/11 revised : -closed -> closed

What about ‘open’?
Anyways i dont think ST is lacking scripters so this is rediclous. The point of this forum is to facilitate dicussion. You probably best send them an email directly.

inoking

axisjack wrote:
Anyways i dont think ST is lacking scripters so this is rediclous. The point of this forum is to facilitate dicussion. You probably best send them an email directly.

That's your misunderstanding.
Actually, we are discussing not technical matter but what a better solution is.

As stated as “Powered by DjangoBB” at the bottom of the page,
the managent system of the Discussion Forums' source codes are diffrent from other Scratch's one.

Also, as “Discuss” button has disappeared from the Navigation Bar,
“Discussion” is a secondary function on Scratch.
Besides, ST have many higher priority tasks.
So, I think ST would probably not want to put much effort on this matter.

Of course, though ST can do it by themselves, technical informations can help them.
So, to show how easy to implement this suggestion is important.

inoking

bigpuppy wrote:
Looking at the replies to the suggestion, what about a button you can press to see the closed topics rather than moving them to another page? I don't know whether, when you click it, it should show them among the open topics or just among other closed topics, but I think that might be a good compromise. By default, it could only show open topics. It would be more hard to code than the other options, though.

Coding difficuty is serious for this suggestion,

The reasons why it is serious is,
as I told here(#15), ST would probably not want to put much effort on this matter.
Also, most of users may not feel inconvenient now. This can be another reason.

Also, you mentioned how there are inappropriate closed topics in the Japanese forum. Then shouldn't they be sent to the dustbin forum instead of simply closed?

If inappropriate topics are sent to the dustbin forum,
other users (even the authors) can not know the reason why that topics are closed.
The authors may create anoher inappropriate topic again.

StrangeMagic32

inoking wrote:
topics are sent to the dustbin forum,
other users (even the authors) can not know the reason why that topics are closed.
The authors may create anoher inappropriate topic again.

Fairly sure they get a warning of some kind for making it… so… yeah…

I just don't understand how this is a big issue… it's easily fixed by 1 maybe 2 people working on the forums to bump open topics that seem important… and as ones are closed, they slowly phase out…

All in all No support
1. forcing things on others is going to backfire when it's something like this
2. as I mentioned you only need to phase closed topics off the page and then there is only open ones, easy
3. I personally don't want it, it doesn't seem like a big issue
4. closed topics usually stay closed, so they are hardly never bumped

inoking

StrangeMagic32 wrote:
I just don't understand how this is a big issue… it's easily fixed by 1 maybe 2 people working on the forums to bump open topics that seem important… and as ones are closed, they slowly phase out…

Which topics are important depends on the interests of each user.
Most important topics for everyone are already Sticky.
Also, some people don't like “Bump” in terms of manners.

Since we are not moderators, we can't choose Bump method as a solution of this issue.

If you don't feel this is a big problem, …
did you see the Japanese forum?
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/?page=2
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/?page=3
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/?page=4
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/?page=5
:
Do you think they are in a normal situation?

StrangeMagic32

inoking wrote:
StrangeMagic32 wrote:
I just don't understand how this is a big issue… it's easily fixed by 1 maybe 2 people working on the forums to bump open topics that seem important… and as ones are closed, they slowly phase out…
Which topics are important depends on the interests of each user.
Most important topics for everyone are already Sticky.
Also, some people don't like “Bump” in terms of manners.

Since we are not moderators, we can't choose Bump method as a solution of this issue.

If you don't feel this is a big problem, …
did you see the Japanese forum?
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/?page=2
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/?page=3
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/?page=4
https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/18/?page=5
:
Do you think they are in a normal situation?

Yes I do believe they look perfectly fine, what's the issue?

inoking

StrangeMagic32 wrote:
Yes I do believe they look perfectly fine, what's the issue?

Usually, we never want to read closed topics
(except for when checking the reason why closed topics were closed).
I think most users agree to this.

The following is an example of this issue.
Only a few topics are updated frequently.
Other “important (relatively common to everyone)” topics are not updated so often.
Such topics are on page 5 or 6, …

The user who don't know such topics can't find them.
So they create new duplicate topics, then closed again…

Discuss Scratch