This isn’t exactly the best area of the forum’s to put this in, but it was the closest fit I could find.

It seems like the ST is discriminating new scratchers in many ways. This is something very annoying and irritating that really REALLY needs to be changed.

For instance, new scratchers can’t say the word “terrible” (or maybe it was “horrible”, can’t remember for sure). I get that they don’t want people to say mean things to other users, but with this it seems like the ST is just assuming new users are more likely to break rules. The word “terrible” is a word that people use a lot! Like if somebody wanted to say “I feel terrible right now” or “I’m terrible at this game” they wouldn’t be able to. Sure there’s alternatives to those words, such as “awful” or “not good”, but sometimes someone might want to use a more descriptive word. Like saying “I’m terrible at this” sounds a bit more descriptive and professional than “I’m not good at this”.
Also, for awhile new users couldn’t say the word “cut”. Again I know that the word can be used inappropriately, but what are the chances of it? Kind of high I guess, but why do new scratchers have to suffer from this? I remember on my first account I kept on getting muted since I wanted to ask someone if their icon was from the game Cut the Rope, and I wanted to tell someone about a song that was cut from a movie and it wouldn’t let me. It has been fixed though, but it wasINSANELY irritating to me.

And speaking of muting, it seems like the ST has a bit of discrimination against new scratchers regarding muting them. Full scratchers hardly ever get muted, but if a new scratcher said something that was against the filterbot (which is much easier as a new user) too many times they get muted. FOR A WHOLE DAY! And after awhile (from what I remember at least) if they just say ONE THING that’s rejected by the filterbot they get muted. If someone was just saying something perfectly okay but the filterbot had a false positive, and they didn’t quite know how to fix it so they tried a bit but it didn’t fully fix it, they will get muted just for not fully understanding. Again, I get that a “new scratcher” is more likely to be a “troll” or “spammer”, but what about those completely innocent kids with no bad intentions? They’d have to wait two weeks (unless it changed recently, don’t know for sure) in order to be able to not worry about constantly getting muted, and the more times they get muted the longer it takes for them to become a full scratcher (if I recall correctly).

Another thing, how come new scratchers aren’t allowed to use cloud data? I remember hearing it might be because “they could abuse it”, but LITERALLY ANYBODY MIGHT BE ABLE TO ABUSE IT. And don’t give the “they’re new so they might not understand it” excuse, since just because they’re new to Scratch doesn’t mean they’re new to coding. I could be wrong about this though, so correct me if I’m wrong.


Also, one time I saw a project which was a role play sign up thing, and it said that new scratchers wouldn’t be allowed to have more powerful ranks or something. I don’t remember completely what it was, but that really seems like new scratcher discrimination. And there’s probably many other cases of this. I did report the project, but I don’t know if it got taken down or not since I didn’t try checking for it.



Anyway, there’s many more cases of this that I can’t think of right now. But please ST, please listen to what I’m saying. This has bothered me for a long time and we need a solution to it.

Also, please don’t just say “support” or “no support”. This is a discussion, not just saying that you like an idea or you don’t. It’s more constructive saying why you support or don’t support something. Thanks!

-Luna

finally someone makes a good point about this

The New Scratcher rank and its restrictions are extremely effective against spam and troll accounts. It's unfortunate that there may be some genuine users that are unfairly getting muted, but the alternative isn't better (allowing people to create new accounts for the sole purpose of repeatedly insulting other users).

In particular, the Scratch website already has trouble with spam in some areas of the website, and removing the muting restrictions may just cause things to worsen. Like I said, someone could just create a new account and insult several users. Although the comments can be reported, it's even better if the comments can't be made in the first place.

The reason that cloud variables could be abused is that someone could make 100 accounts and use up a ton of cloud data in several projects. However, it's not quite as easy to create 100 accounts and upgrade them all to the Scratcher rank, and then abuse them. If a Scratcher gets blocked for abuse of cloud data, they'd have to wait 2 weeks before they could attempt to use them again if they tried to create a new account. In contrast, if New Scratchers could use cloud variables, and an account was blocked for cloud data abuse, the offender could immediately make a new account and continue to abuse cloud data.

@Paddle2See* expands on this here:

Paddle2See* wrote:

In addition to the anti-spam / anti-troll reasons given previously on this topic, there is another reason that New Scratchers are restricted from using cloud Variables. It's better for the community and easier on our moderators if people are invested in their accounts and work to keep them in good standing with the community. By withholding cloud variable features from brand-new accounts, it provides an incentive for Scratch users to stick with their existing accounts and work to keep them in good shape so they don't get blocked.

Source

The 2 weeks limit isn't all that restrictive. If someone is truly active and truly interested in becoming a part of the Scratch community, then the 2 weeks part isn't really all that long, or tricky to get. You also have to share some projects, and love and favorite others' projects, but that's not too hard, either.

It's not discrimination, it's called spam protection. It's the reason why the New Scratcher rank exists in the first place. Almost every website does this.

@Za-Chary pretty much sums up what I was going to say.

2 weeks really isn't that long of a time, and the Scratch Team wouldn't have implemented this feature if they didn't think it would help prevent spam (which is does).

Well, in that case, why don't we instantly give every prospective immigrant a citizenship? Sure, there might be a few criminals and spies among them who might cost us hundreds of lives and millions of dollars, but what about all those other innocent people who just want a new home? We should stop discriminating against them.

I know that was a very extreme analogy, but still.

EDIT 10/12/20: yeah, I know that's a terrible analogy, but whatever. I won't delete this post.

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M1mikyu wrote:

Also, one time I saw a project which was a role play sign up thing, and it said that new scratchers wouldn’t be allowed to have more powerful ranks or something. I don’t remember completely what it was, but that really seems like new scratcher discrimination. And there’s probably many other cases of this. I did report the project, but I don’t know if it got taken down or not since I didn’t try checking for it.

this ain't the ST's fault. IMO people should be able to do that (less rules!), but it's probably not allowed at all. ST has bigger problems than stopping people using the only real rank they can achieve to feel powerful.

I understand that it’s spamm protection, but it seems a bit unfair that they can’t say words like “horrible”. Since it’s a general every day word. And yes I’m okay with users getting muted and having a cooldown period between posts, but when it’s done just because a user accidentally says something bad? It’s really wrong.

M1mikyu wrote:

I understand that it’s spamm protection, but it seems a bit unfair that they can’t say words like “horrible”. Since it’s a general every day word. And yes I’m okay with users getting muted and having a cooldown period between posts, but when it’s done just because a user accidentally says something bad? It’s really wrong.

Again, this may be inconvenient, but it is an effective shield against spam, and 2 weeks really isn't a long time.

dude341 wrote:

It's not discrimination, it's called spam protection. It's the reason why the New Scratcher rank exists in the first place. Almost every website does this.

My words, exactly.

No support for the reasons listed above.

And New Scratchers aren't able to say words like “terrible” because there will always be people who make new accounts just to break rules and say mean things (ex. “Your project is terrible! Delete it now!”)

I know that some people don't have bad intentions when using words like this, but it's better safe than sorry.

-ShadowOfTheFuture- wrote:

Well, in that case, why don't we instantly let every person not be jailed? Sure, there might be a few criminals and spies among them who might cost us hundreds of lives and millions of dollars, but what about all those other innocent people who just want not be jailed?

Do you object to letting everyone live free?

badatprogrammingibe wrote:

-ShadowOfTheFuture- wrote:

Well, in that case, why don't we instantly let every person not be jailed? Sure, there might be a few criminals and spies among them who might cost us hundreds of lives and millions of dollars, but what about all those other innocent people who just want not be jailed?

Do you object to letting everyone live free?

it was an analogy, it doesn't have to say anything about the person. I could say, “Well, why not give everyone free taxes? There are plenty of people who can't pay the current taxes so why not, oh, but that would mean that we would mean that certain commodities would be unavailable, oh, but what about those who can't pay?”
This doesn't mean I want free taxes, or that I like the way they are currently down, but neither do I object to either.


OP, No support, it's simple spam protection, any true Scratcher can wait.

-ShadowOfTheFuture- wrote:

Well, in that case, why don't we instantly give every prospective immigrant a citizenship? Sure, there might be a few criminals and spies among them who might cost us hundreds of lives and millions of dollars, but what about all those other innocent people who just want a new home? We should stop discriminating against them.

I know that was a very extreme analogy, but still.

Yes, because Scratch is full of spies and criminals. It's like that one city full of criminals from Batman but in website form.

Anyways, support. Just because New Scratchers are new to Scratch, that doesn't mean they are new to coding.

I was not aware of these things! I agree, new Scratchers should be able to say ‘Cut’ in their comments, and nobody should have to get muted. They should receive a polite message telling them about what they did wrong, and asking them not to do it again. Maybe if they get this message too many times, they should get muted for a while.

badatprogrammingibe wrote:

-ShadowOfTheFuture- wrote:

Well, in that case, why don't we instantly let every person not be jailed? Sure, there might be a few criminals and spies among them who might cost us hundreds of lives and millions of dollars, but what about all those other innocent people who just want not be jailed?

Do you object to letting everyone live free?

honestly, best quote ever lol

Anyway… Uh… Semi-Support?
Since the filters were annoying when I made a new account, but I can kind of understand that it's “spam protection”

Semi-support because of the reasons that people have already listed above. I do agree with the word filter thing, although I think the ST should still be alerted if a New Scratcher uses a word such as terrible. From there, they can look at the comment and see the context of terrible before deciding whether or not that was an appropriate action to take or not.

I remember when I joined Scratch about 5 years ago, the process took about 2-3 months, so I think the ST are trying to make the time as a New Scratcher as short as possible without compromising the spam blocking ability of the New Scratcher phase.

CatsUnited wrote:

Semi-support because of the reasons that people have already listed above. I do agree with the word filter thing, although I think the ST should still be alerted if a New Scratcher uses a word such as terrible. From there, they can look at the comment and see the context of terrible before deciding whether or not that was an appropriate action to take or not.

I remember when I joined Scratch about 5 years ago, the process took about 2-3 months, so I think the ST are trying to make the time as a New Scratcher as short as possible without compromising the spam blocking ability of the New Scratcher phase.

Yes that’s exactly what I mean! At least notify the ST regarding the word “terrible”, not fully mite them for it. I’m pretty sure I got muted for saying “stupid” once, too. I believe I was just saying I did something stupid. I might be wrong though.