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turkey3
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

We are having an interesting discussion on the Wiki here and thought part of it could come here. My original post was this on the Wiki Community Portal:

Turkey3 wrote:

As said above, Scmb1 stated that we should not advertise when a user is blocked, as it is like openly shaming them. Well, don't we kind of do the same thing with []? We openly shame that human being who was once Kaj and give that person a bad outlook. What if you were Kaj and got better, came back and saw there are Wiki articles and mockery (such as kajTheModerator) all over the site? I would not want to come back to a site that utterly only knows me as the person who threatened to hack Scratch.

My point is, we openly shame Kaj, so why is that acceptable at all? Is it really respectful to have an article on one individual user who threatened the website, because if you ask me, it shames Kaj.
jvvg responded with:

jvvg wrote:

I kind of agree with Turkey3. I think that the way the Kaj article is currently written, it publicizes a lot of information that really should remain private. I also agree that things such as KajTheModerator are extremely rude. It's very likely that Kaj has matured and would be very said to see what people are saying about him/her. If I was a rude user on Scratch a few years ago and decided to come back later, I wouldn't want to see myself ridiculed and an article about me portraying me as a total jerk.<scratchsig>jvvg</scratchsig> 01:10, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Here's my main point. This is an account the Scratch Team made for April Fools:

KajTheModerator was a moderator account made by the Scratch Team. I felt that this was mockery and kind of disrespectful.

I guess my real question is whether or not you think we show mockery toward Kaj. He/she could have been a young child with an anger issue, that's all. I'm sure Kaj matured, and if I came back to scratch seeing I'm mocked by the image above, I would be quite sad as a matter of fact.

ProdigyZeta7
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

I totally understand that this glorification of Kaj is an invasion of his/her reputation.

However, if my culture studies class has taught me anything, it's that people have to ridicule the deviant individuals in order to establish a boundary for acceptable behavior. If people did not have a model to show what behavior is unacceptable, then people would think any behavior, good or bad, is acceptable.

My point here is that the Scratch Team purposely ridicules Kaj to remind Scratchers of the consequences of bad behavior.



joshuaho
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

Yep. I support this. I have been wondering why there was a wiki article about kaj as one of the wiki rules says specifically to NOT make articles about other users.

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turkey3
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

ProdigyZeta7 wrote:

I totally understand that this glorification of Kaj is an invasion of his/her reputation.

However, if my culture studies class has taught me anything, it's that people have to ridicule the deviant individuals in order to establish a boundary for acceptable behavior. If people did not have a model to show what behavior is unacceptable, then people would think any behavior, good or bad, is acceptable.

My point here is that the Scratch Team purposely ridicules Kaj to remind Scratchers of the consequences of bad behavior.
They don't purposely ridicule banned users on their profiles by saying “banned user”. Also, I do not feel the intention of KajTheModerator was to remind people what bad behavior is.

mathfreak231
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

joshuaho wrote:

Yep. I support this. I have been wondering why there was a wiki article about kaj as one of the wiki rules says specifically to NOT make articles about other users.

S:NOSP wrote:

There are a couple of exceptions to this rule:
Topics that have been considered important/notable enough in Scratch's history by a majority of wiki editors that they deserve an article. (ex. Kaj, Removed Pac-Man Project, etc.)
Sorry…

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WarriorLakepelt
Scratcher
100+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

Maybe he used to be a innocent child that was teased all the time in school! I definitely agree!
joshuaho
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

mathfreak231 wrote:

S:NOSP wrote:

There are a couple of exceptions to this rule:
Topics that have been considered important/notable enough in Scratch's history by a majority of wiki editors that they deserve an article. (ex. Kaj, Removed Pac-Man Project, etc.)
Sorry…
Ok… then I take that off the list of reasons why I support. But then…
List of Reasons why I support this:
The wiki says to not make articles about users
It can name and shame a user that could have been a innocent child.

Last edited by joshuaho (April 4, 2014 22:30:10)


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AonymousProfessor
Scratcher
100+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

joshuaho wrote:

It can name and shame a user that could have been a innocent child.
1st, that should say “an”, not “a”.

2nd, how is Kaj an “innocent child” when he/she threatened to destroy Scratch?

Now I agree that it is disrespectful mockery, but that's kinda like naming and shaming spambots, isn't it?

The point is that Kaj didn't follow the rules and thus is attributed with such.

What if the above spambots are owned by young children, too?

Last edited by AonymousProfessor (April 4, 2014 22:45:37)


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djdolphin
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

AonymousProfessor wrote:

joshuaho wrote:

It can name and shame a user that could have been a innocent child.
1st, that should say “an”, not “a”.

2nd, how is Kaj an “innocent child” when he/she threatened to destroy Scratch?

Now I agree that it is disrespectful mockery, but that's kinda like naming and shaming spambots, isn't it?

The point is that Kaj didn't follow the rules and thus is attributed with such.

What if the above spambots are owned by young children, too?

1st, it should be “a user” because user is pronounced ˈyü-zər.

2nd, Kaj may have just been a regular user with some anger issues. He/she did break the community guidelines, but he/she has probably matured now. He/she would probably be horrified at how his/her image has developed into that of a stereotypical hacker and how his/her username has come to be despised and mocked on this website. He/she probably just overreacted (a lot) to the little amount of views his/her projects got and used a bad way to deal with it, with no actual intention or method of destroying Scratch at all. One more thing - spambots don't have feelings, while humans do.

Last edited by djdolphin (April 5, 2014 00:05:22)


!
joshuaho
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

AonymousProfessor wrote:

Now I agree that it is disrespectful mockery, but that's kinda like [link removed by joshuaho], isn't it?

The point is that Kaj didn't follow the rules and thus is attributed with such.

What if the above spambots are owned by young children, too?

Spam-bots… are computer programs. They don't have feelings, and they will just do whatever they are programmed to do.

The point is that Kaj didn't follow the rules and thus is attributed with such
I once found that a user copied a project made by a follower of mine. I reported it in the forums along with that username. It potentially spread the word to many about the project being copied. But then… the result? Paddle2See edited my post because it named and shamed a user which could potentially bring negative attention to the user I was “attacking” even though I was reporting a problem.

And that is similar to how it is with kaj. You can report a issue(such as kaj) to many scratchers to spread the word, but it also means that you can potentially NAME AND SHAME a user.

Last edited by joshuaho (April 5, 2014 06:55:57)


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FirstSkyler1
Scratcher
100+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

I must agree that the pranks and jokes played on Kaj need to be toned down.

Last edited by FirstSkyler1 (Dec. 18, 3013 7:45:49)
AonymousProfessor
Scratcher
100+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

joshuaho wrote:

but it also means that you can potentially NAME AND SHAME a user.
I get that part.

However, seeing as how Kaj has had so much influence on Scratch history, and is notorious for breaking the rules, stopping all of this would come too late.

I think that Kaj will always be remembered as a bad person, but we should drop the rumors about hacking cuz' they're not true.

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mathfreak231
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

AonymousProfessor wrote:

joshuaho wrote:

but it also means that you can potentially NAME AND SHAME a user.
I get that part.

However, seeing as how Kaj has had so much influence on Scratch history, and is notorious for breaking the rules, stopping all of this would come too late.

I think that Kaj will always be remembered as a bad person, but we should drop the rumors about hacking cuz' they're not true.

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derpmeup
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

Yeah, I do think that it is a bit over the top. There is even a user called StopKaj.

Last edited by derpmeup (April 5, 2014 23:58:25)


hey bro that's a pretty good meme xD!
WarriorLakepelt
Scratcher
100+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

djdolphin wrote:

AonymousProfessor wrote:

joshuaho wrote:

It can name and shame a user that could have been a innocent child.
1st, that should say “an”, not “a”.

2nd, how is Kaj an “innocent child” when he/she threatened to destroy Scratch?

Now I agree that it is disrespectful mockery, but that's kinda like naming and shaming spambots, isn't it?

The point is that Kaj didn't follow the rules and thus is attributed with such.

What if the above spambots are owned by young children, too?

1st, it should be “a user” because user is pronounced ˈyü-zər.

2nd, Kaj may have just been a regular user with some anger issues. He/she did break the community guidelines, but he/she has probably matured now. He/she would probably be horrified at how his/her image has developed into that of a stereotypical hacker and how his/her username has come to be despised and mocked on this website. He/she probably just overreacted (a lot) to the little amount of views his/her projects got and used a bad way to deal with it, with no actual intention or method of destroying Scratch at all. One more thing - spambots don't have feelings, while humans do.

Yes, and whats a bit annoying is that if i ever said out loud i dont think he/she was evil, infront of all scratch users, they would think im weird. Truth is, he/she probably had anger issues or depression, or just teased a lot in school. It would just make him/her cry if he/she saw everything that was posted about her, I would too. Its not like she/he threatened to take over the entire web, (Which, with me isnt even that important). So why would you want to make his/her feel even more bad? He/she most likely changed by now.
AonymousProfessor
Scratcher
100+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

The one ironic thing about this topic is it is bringing more disrespect to Kaj by assuming he/she had “anger issues” or whatever so that kinda defeats the point

I am @AonymousGuy's test account!

The word “test” in test accounts is outdated. That is why mine has professor instead!

Thanks @MicroMacro for the profile image!
EvilCookie36
Scratcher
100+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

derpmeup wrote:

Yeah, I do think that it is a bit over the top. There is even a user called StopKaj.
Not anymore.

EvilCookie36 apologises for any mean/rude comments that may have been said above. He's a jerk.
turkey3
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

AonymousProfessor wrote:

The one ironic thing about this topic is it is bringing more disrespect to Kaj by assuming he/she had “anger issues” or whatever so that kinda defeats the point
The point of this topic was not to create an excuse for his/her behavior. That was not what was intended by that statement.

fashionista1223
Scratcher
43 posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

turkey3 wrote:

We are having an interesting discussion on the Wiki here and thought part of it could come here. My original post was this on the Wiki Community Portal:

Turkey3 wrote:

As said above, Scmb1 stated that we should not advertise when a user is blocked, as it is like openly shaming them. Well, don't we kind of do the same thing with []? We openly shame that human being who was once Kaj and give that person a bad outlook. What if you were Kaj and got better, came back and saw there are Wiki articles and mockery (such as kajTheModerator) all over the site? I would not want to come back to a site that utterly only knows me as the person who threatened to hack Scratch.

My point is, we openly shame Kaj, so why is that acceptable at all? Is it really respectful to have an article on one individual user who threatened the website, because if you ask me, it shames Kaj.
jvvg responded with:

jvvg wrote:

I kind of agree with Turkey3. I think that the way the Kaj article is currently written, it publicizes a lot of information that really should remain private. I also agree that things such as KajTheModerator are extremely rude. It's very likely that Kaj has matured and would be very said to see what people are saying about him/her. If I was a rude user on Scratch a few years ago and decided to come back later, I wouldn't want to see myself ridiculed and an article about me portraying me as a total jerk.<scratchsig>jvvg</scratchsig> 01:10, 4 April 2014 (UTC)

Here's my main point. This is an account the Scratch Team made for April Fools:

KajTheModerator was a moderator account made by the Scratch Team. I felt that this was mockery and kind of disrespectful.

I guess my real question is whether or not you think we show mockery toward Kaj. He/she could have been a young child with an anger issue, that's all. I'm sure Kaj matured, and if I came back to scratch seeing I'm mocked by the image above, I would be quite sad as a matter of fact.


Actually, I agree with them too. I understand that we want to make sure people behave better on Scratch, but like Turkey3 said, what if Kaj got better and then came back, and saw all this mockery and ridicule? I think it has gone too far. There are many projects that I've seen titled “Beat Up Kaj!” and I think it is wrong.
I also think we should bring a Scratch Team member in on this discussion. It is important that people on Scratch know about our feelings on this situation. Please support this discussion. It is important.

Thanks,
Fashionista1223

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Paddle2See
Scratch Team
1000+ posts

Is All this Kaj Stuff Disrespectful Mockery to Him/Her?

You are right to be concerned about the ethics of focusing a lot of public attention on a single Scratcher. Respect for the individual is important. But Kaj is more than just a single Scratcher - more than an individual. He/she is a mythological figure now, like the boogie-man or the tooth fairy. Something about his/her angry calls to “destroy Scratch” (or something along those lines) resonated with other drama seekers and it became quite fashionable, for a time, to make a “Kaj” account and threaten to destroy Scratch and/or “hack” people - just for the lulz.

My creation of the KajTheModerator account on April Fools day was an attempt to poke fun at the people using the “Kaj” mantle to troll other people, many of which used to make an appearance on April Fools day. I thought it would “confuse and amuse” our community to put the “Kaj” mask into a new role - one of helping. It was not my intent to mock the original account holder.in any way or to make some sort of statement about the consequences of not following the Community Guidelines.

Scratch Team Member, kayak enthusiast, and servant to multiple cats.

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