If there are so many problems that will be fixed and features that will be added “post-release,” it seems as if ST is running on a tight deadline to release 3.0. I understand that porting from incompatible languages such as Flash to JS is difficult, and it takes plenty of effort. However, I feel it would be in the best interest of all parties if Scratch Team delays 3.0 to implement new features. Although remaking Scratch in Javascript is obviously no easy task, and it helps Scratch stay alive, I don't believe many of Scratch's users would only be able to appreciate this effort, and ST should consider working on new features to give 3.0 it's own exciting additions. I also understand that Flash is a dying platform, and it will be deprecated in 2020, but that still means that ST has enough time to delay the update and work on perfecting it.

(This is the less necessary part, if you don't feel like reading some more then you can skip it.)
I've had a reputation of disliking the 3.0 update, but I don't actively want 3.0 to fail. I'm just worried that 3.0 is being rushed and ST doesn't have enough time to consider and implement new features that Scratchers have suggested. I'm also curious if many new features have been added to the main site. Is it getting a redesign? What new stuff will be added? I can understand why 3.0 focuses much on the editor, but it would be good if at least some new features were added to the website.

So, in conclusion, I believe that it will be good for all sides if Scratch 3.0 is delayed further, so ST can iron out all the flaws and consider user suggestions.

Scratch will be adding new features and improving 3.0 when it's released. They're kinda just worried about releasing it now and will perfect it later.

They also, if I'm not mistaken, said that they aren't adding any new features to 2.0.

paws48 wrote:

Scratch will be adding new features and improving 3.0 when it's released. They're kinda just worried about releasing it now and will perfect it later.

They also, if I'm not mistaken, said that they aren't adding any new features to 2.0.

I never said they were adding new features to 2.0. Also, the whole “improving after release” thing is the reason I created this thread. Why release something as a full version that isn't finished?

the2000 wrote:

paws48 wrote:

Scratch will be adding new features and improving 3.0 when it's released. They're kinda just worried about releasing it now and will perfect it later.

They also, if I'm not mistaken, said that they aren't adding any new features to 2.0.

I never said they were adding new features to 2.0. Also, the whole “improving after release” thing is the reason I created this thread. Why release something as a full version that isn't finished?

Ohhh, I see now.

I mean, they still might as well release it at the intended date. They can always improve it later. Lots of W.I.P. things are released early.

Purely speculation, but perhaps Google might be rushing them because they intend on using it for hour of code activities, etc.

Scratch 3.0 implements a ton of suggested features; the backpack refreshes without reloading the page, glide _ secs to _, costume name, go forward _ layers, go to back layer, pan audio effects, _ contains _?, set pen transparency to _, text to speech, translate block, vector eraser, curved vs pointed nodes, support for more characters in text, surprise costume/sprite. (I'm not sure if all of these were suggested, but I'm quite sure some of them were).

Scratch 3.0 seems pretty finished to me; it may not have all the features of Scratch 2.0, but that does not make it incomplete.

The project page is getting a redesign; elsewhere on the website they're also adding pages for the extensions, eg how to install them.

The other reason is that 3.0 runs off of HTML5 rather than Flash, which is what Scratch 2.0 runs on.

There are numerous Scratchers who have reported problems with Scratch 2.0 already, and Flash isn't even “officially” obsolete yet. The Scratch Team wants to finish Scratch 3.0 as fast as possible so people will be able to at least use Scratch. This is why they aren't delaying the release date.

Does that make sense?

I would just trust MIT to do what they think is best. It's MIT. I'm sure it will be stable upon release, even if they are going to add features later on. Also– flash is annoying. Getting scratch off of that platform seems necessary.

Thanks!!

Spacexfan1

Sheep_maker wrote:

Purely speculation, but perhaps Google might be rushing them because they intend on using it for hour of code activities, etc

Hm, that could very much be the case as well.

Za-Chary wrote:

The other reason is that 3.0 runs off of HTML5 rather than Flash, which is what Scratch 2.0 runs on.

There are numerous Scratchers who have reported problems with Scratch 2.0 already, and Flash isn't even “officially” obsolete yet. The Scratch Team wants to finish Scratch 3.0 as fast as possible so people will be able to at least use Scratch. This is why they aren't delaying the release date.

This is basically repeating everything I said, but being used against my point instead of for it, and I know that Scratch 3.0 is in JS and 2.0 is in Flash, so I'm pretty sure you didn't read my post.

Sheep_maker wrote:

Purely speculation, but perhaps Google might be rushing them because they intend on using it for hour of code activities, etc.

Google's already using them, and I know that Scratch needs to update to JS, but it doesn't need to be in early 2019. It can be in late 2019. Or even really early 2020.

Sheep_maker wrote:

Scratch 3.0 implements a ton of suggested features; the backpack refreshes without reloading the page, glide _ secs to _, costume name, go forward _ layers, go to back layer, pan audio effects, _ contains _?, set pen transparency to _, text to speech, translate block, vector eraser, curved vs pointed nodes, support for more characters in text, surprise costume/sprite. (I'm not sure if all of these were suggested, but I'm quite sure some of them were).

Here are what I think of each one.

• Backpack: Cool
  
• Glide _ secs to _: X and Y blocks already cover this, but okay
  
• Costume name: Just use Costume number, it covers all the same stuff and takes less space
  
• Layers: Cool
  
• Audio effects: Cool
  
• _ contains _?: Cool
  
• Set pen transparency to _: They added the one thing everyone wanted, I'll give them that.
  
• Text to speech: Every time people mention this they act like everyone needed and wanted it. It's not useful for much, nobody really wanted it that much, and it's more gimmicky than anything.
  
• Translate block: I guess if you want to translate your projects? But I don't know anyone who asked for a Google Translate block.
  
• Vector eraser: This was actually a feature in early 2.0, but ST got rid of it because they didn't like it. So they want it again now?
  
• Pointed nodes: No one really was asking for this, but it's one of the best things in this update
  
• Character support: Sure I guess
  
• Surprise sprite/costume: Cool I guess
  

I was really hoping they'd add arrays, but they didn't.

paws48 wrote:

I mean, they still might as well release it at the intended date. They can always improve it later. Lots of W.I.P. things are released early.

The thing is that they don't need to release it by now, they can release it later in 2019. Scratch 2.0 wasn't released like this. Sure, some things were changed, but nothing was released unfinished.

SpacexFan1 wrote:

I would just trust MIT to do what they think is best. It's MIT. I'm sure it will be stable upon release, even if they are going to add features later on. Also– flash is annoying. Getting scratch off of that platform seems necessary.

Flash isn't exactly “annoying.” What's so bad about it? Having to update occasionally?

Also, I'm not sure “MIT knows what they're doing” is the best thing to believe in. Sure, this isn't their first time making a new version of Scratch, but this is the first time they're releasing a beta as a full version, and their first time porting from such drastically different languages and Flash and Javascript. And besides, if MIT always knows what they're doing, then we wouldn't need this section of the forums at all. No one always knows what they're doing. I don't. You don't. MIT doesn't.

the2000 wrote:

Za-Chary wrote:

The other reason is that 3.0 runs off of HTML5 rather than Flash, which is what Scratch 2.0 runs on.

There are numerous Scratchers who have reported problems with Scratch 2.0 already, and Flash isn't even “officially” obsolete yet. The Scratch Team wants to finish Scratch 3.0 as fast as possible so people will be able to at least use Scratch. This is why they aren't delaying the release date.

This is basically repeating everything I said, but being used against my point instead of for it, and I know that Scratch 3.0 is in JS and 2.0 is in Flash, so I'm pretty sure you didn't read my post.

I'm pretty sure it didn't make quite enough sense. 3.0 might be a little “rushed”, but there's a reason why they are rushing it — precisely because of the reason I stated above.

The idea that 3.0 is in HTML5 I only brought up because this may be why some users are having trouble with 2.0.

Za-Chary wrote:

I'm pretty sure it didn't make quite enough sense. 3.0 might be a little “rushed”, but there's a reason why they are rushing it — precisely because of the reason I stated above.

The idea that 3.0 is in HTML5 I only brought up because this may be why some users are having trouble with 2.0.

The thing is that Flash will be defunct in 2020, not 2019. They can release it later in the year if they need to, and some people are getting impatient isn't that good of a reason to release it soon.

Here's the thing. These are just a few bugs in scratch that are caused by flash.

Scratch Wiki wrote:

Description:
Actions can occur in the wrong order, for example a sprite may sense if it is touching a line before it draws the line.
Status: Technical Limitation
Solution:
This is due to speed optimizations. Add the script

wait (0) secs

wherever one needs to refresh the screen/order

Description:
Many instruments and drums do not sound as they do in Scratch 1.4
Status: Technical Limitation
Solution:
None. Flash's instrument library is not as extensive as Java's is.

Description:
Sprites with the rotation style set to left-right facing may have an offset rotation center.
Status: Unresolved
Solution:
None.

Description:
Variable placement is often off.
Status: Unresolved
Solution:
Saving the project with all monitors visible in the right places may help position them properly.

Description:
Clicking the green flag signals a mouse-down event
Status: Unresolved
Solution:
Checking the coordinates of the mouse when the event is toggled, and making sure the Y position is less than 180, will avoid this.
Note: Scratch 1.4 triggers the mouse-down event, too, but the Java Player does not.

Description:
Sprite dragging does not work properly.
Status: Unresolved
Solution:
The following script makes a sprite draggable:

when this sprite clicked
set [x v] to ((mouse x) - (x position))
set [y v] to ((mouse y) - (y position))
repeat until <not <mouse down?>>
go to x: ((mouse x) - (x)) y: ((mouse y) - (y))

Description:
Color sensing does not work when sprites are being dragged.
Status: Unresolved
Solution:
The above patch allows that.

Description:
Variable monitors occlude speech bubbles.
Status: Unresolved
Solution:
The following script prevents that:

when green flag clicked
reset timer
repeat until <(timer) > (1)>
say [something]
end

when green flag clicked
wait (0.5) secs
show variable [var v]

Description:
Pen sizes are a little lower than the assigned size.
Status: Unresolved
Solution:
Assign a pen size 1 or 2 pixels larger.

Description:
Speech bubble text overflows in full-screen mode.
Status: Unresolved
Solution:
Split long speech into smaller dialogs. For example, use

say [Hello! This is a] for (2) secs
say [very long string. I am] for (2) secs
say [the Scratch Cat.] for (2) secs

Instead of

say [Hello! This is a very long string. I am the Scratch Cat.] for (2) secs

Description:
Dragged sprites appear over the gray bar over the viewer.
Status: Technical Limitation
Solution:
None.

See? There are so many problems with flash that it's just better to release 3.0 when it's supposed to be.

venyanwarrior wrote:

See? There are so many problems with flash that it's just better to release 3.0 when it's supposed to be.

1. If these are such terrible problems that we need to update Scratch right now, why weren't they in the past?
2. Delaying something doesn't really mean not releasing it “when it's supposed to be.”

My Scratch project will be unusable once 3.0 is released,
https://beta.scratch.mit.edu/#273367578 Works terribly in 3.0 and this is why I wish for 2.0 to still stick around for a while until it is fixed.
(Warning epilepsy)

https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/273367578/ This works well and no epilepsy warning needed

May be a problem with screen refreshing or maybe a change in definition blocks needing to all be running without screen refresh?
Semi-support not asking for a delay of 3.0, but the full transition to it.

3.1 wouldn't be bad, I say. I don't have a support/no support statement for now.