.

MasterOfTheTiger wrote:

badatprogrammingibe wrote:

…

It doesn't teach you anything about real networking, real networking involves a server and sending back and forth responses and requests, nothing like just changing and accessing a variable.

What do you think happens after you set the variable?

Thank you MasterOfTheTiger. Badatprogrammingibe it also depends on if you want to learn. If you don't really care about it and just think of it as a variable then that is fine you learn nothing, but if you think about what you are programming and how it works then you will probably learn the basics. I went from making useless little cloud things on Scratch to making huge servers because of those variables. And if you use Scratch long enough you will probably get into the Scratch API which really helps you learn.

csf30816 wrote:

MasterOfTheTiger wrote:

badatprogrammingibe wrote:

…

It doesn't teach you anything about real networking, real networking involves a server and sending back and forth responses and requests, nothing like just changing and accessing a variable.

What do you think happens after you set the variable?

Thank you MasterOfTheTiger. Badatprogrammingibe it also depends on if you want to learn. If you don't really care about it and just think of it as a variable then that is fine you learn nothing, but if you think about what you are programming and how it works then you will probably learn the basics. I went from making useless little cloud things on Scratch to making huge servers because of those variables. And if you use Scratch long enough you will probably get into the Scratch API which really helps you learn.

i actually agree with badatprogrammingibe (lol ironic innit)

if you want to learn to do this, make your own API and send it requests sos you see both sides at least

thisandagain wrote:

Hi folks,
As many of you have noticed we have added some limits to the Cloud Variables system that previously did not exist. We have added a 128 character limit and we are now restricting cloud variables to be numbers only (no hexadecimal, E-notation, etc). These new limits were put into place to prevent abuse of the cloud variables system that was causing it to be unreasonable to maintain, scale, moderate, and support financially. In addition, these new limits help reduce the possibility of projects like “Chat Rooms” (which are incredibly difficult for the ST to keep safe). We recognize that these new limits may impact some projects, but hope the community will be empathetic in understanding that as a non-profit Scratch needs to make sure that the services we provide are sustainable. Thanks for understanding and sorry it took a few days for us to clarify the situation.

Aw man, i wanted to make The Floor Is Lava Online… :c

Where do i go now just because i can't play with players online? Java? Unity?

GreenScripter wrote:

I wonder how many projects this just broke. Any high score lists, just about anything other than a basic click to up the number.

We can still make these!

Hey, I posted this onto another thread, figured I'd post it here too.

animater_iguana wrote:

hughfunguy wrote:

hey put in a poll feture

You can already do that with Cloud Variables.

Not effectively. Someone can just spam-click.
And even if you made it lock, they'd find another way, like reloading the page.
If the current Scratch hosted elections, the Russians (and literally anyone) could hack them very easily.
HOWEVER…
This used to not be the case.
Once upon a time, there weren't limits to the size of a Cloud Variable.
Someone named -Flames- made a very cool Cloud List Engine, which had pretty short load times, and even allowed for strings.
However, it used a lot of characters, and the ST made a limit as to how many characters can be stored in a Cloud Variable.
Now the project has been pulled (probably by -Flames-, who realized it was broken) and all possibilities of polls or even online multiplayer games that are, like, good, have disappeared.
And basically all of this because the ST apparently can't (or… doesn't want to?) censor text in-project, which would get rid of two problems.
Chat rooms (especially those without a white list), just like any other sort of bad project, can be reported.
There is essentially no reason to take these measures and limit creativity further.

wookie184 wrote:

badatprogrammingibe wrote:

red_king_cyclops wrote:

KICK_THE_HABIT wrote:

It's still possible to implement a simple chat room, though limited.

In fact, your statement says that the scratch team has to cut the cloud variables even more. Very intelligent!
Maybe someone will explain to me why it is so fascinating to create a chat room on Scratch under all circumstances…

Maybe people like to create chat rooms so much because it is a challenge. It must be hard to make a chat room due to the ever-increasing amount of cloud variable restrictions.

Not really—it's pretty much the exact same process, except you can store less information.
As I have said, this update doesn't impair the ability to create chat rooms, but it breaks so many other projects.
It's done more harm than good.

I decided to make a chat room as a challenge and when the new rules were introduced I made a system that joined together as many cloud variables as I could to increase the maximum.
https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/221241368/

Its still very possible to make infinite cloud rooms, as long as you are willing to keep a python server open 24/7, By using web-socket interactions or Node.js , all-though your project will most likely get marked NFE

Raytracing wrote:

wookie184 wrote:

badatprogrammingibe wrote:

red_king_cyclops wrote:

KICK_THE_HABIT wrote:

It's still possible to implement a simple chat room, though limited.

In fact, your statement says that the scratch team has to cut the cloud variables even more. Very intelligent!
Maybe someone will explain to me why it is so fascinating to create a chat room on Scratch under all circumstances…

Maybe people like to create chat rooms so much because it is a challenge. It must be hard to make a chat room due to the ever-increasing amount of cloud variable restrictions.

Not really—it's pretty much the exact same process, except you can store less information.
As I have said, this update doesn't impair the ability to create chat rooms, but it breaks so many other projects.
It's done more harm than good.

I decided to make a chat room as a challenge and when the new rules were introduced I made a system that joined together as many cloud variables as I could to increase the maximum.
https://scratch.mit.edu/projects/221241368/

Its still very possible to make infinite cloud rooms, as long as you are willing to keep a python server open 24/7, By using web-socket interactions or Node.js , all-though your project will most likely get marked NFE

How do you make a Python server for cloud variables?

That will make it difficult for a lot of projects. I wonder why they changed the limit?

when I receive [ social interaction ]
hide
repeat until < (person gone)=( yes)  >
point towards [ corner ]
go to [ corner and cower ]
end

ImpulseGamer wrote:

That will make it difficult for a lot of projects. I wonder why they changed the limit?

Probably moderation.

;-;

Sheep_maker wrote:

ImpulseGamer wrote:

That will make it difficult for a lot of projects. I wonder why they changed the limit?

Probably moderation.

And some other reasons iirc; a ST member wrote a post about it somewhere here on this topic I think.

when I receive [flash_player_version] :: motion
say [Windows 7, Flash 15.0 (release 0)] :: sensing 
stop script :: custom 

Tropic wrote:

Sheep_maker wrote:

ImpulseGamer wrote:

That will make it difficult for a lot of projects. I wonder why they changed the limit?

Probably moderation.

And some other reasons iirc; a ST member wrote a post about it somewhere here on this topic I think.

*snicker*
Here you guys go.

thisandagain wrote:

Hi folks,
As many of you have noticed we have added some limits to the Cloud Variables system that previously did not exist. We have added a 128 character limit and we are now restricting cloud variables to be numbers only (no hexadecimal, E-notation, etc). These new limits were put into place to prevent abuse of the cloud variables system that was causing it to be unreasonable to maintain, scale, moderate, and support financially. In addition, these new limits help reduce the possibility of projects like “Chat Rooms” (which are incredibly difficult for the ST to keep safe). We recognize that these new limits may impact some projects, but hope the community will be empathetic in understanding that as a non-profit Scratch needs to make sure that the services we provide are sustainable. Thanks for understanding and sorry it took a few days for us to clarify the situation.

I still don't understand this though.
It's just kinda dumb in my opinion.
Chat Rooms are just as dangerous as the Scratch comment system itself. You can find out who edited cloud variables and when, even if the project doesn't indicate who posted something. If someone's been saying things they shouldn't, the solution is just a report button away.
So the Chat Room argument makes no sense. Making sure the servers run well? I mean, kinda. But still, this is a very annoying choice. In my opinion, we Scratchers need more freedom, not less. We're not all just little kids tinkering around and making dumb stuff.
How said freedom can be given? Well, if we could run new forms of cloud variables off of our own severs, that'd be sweet.

hahasamian wrote:

Tropic wrote:

Sheep_maker wrote:

ImpulseGamer wrote:

That will make it difficult for a lot of projects. I wonder why they changed the limit?

Probably moderation.

And some other reasons iirc; a ST member wrote a post about it somewhere here on this topic I think.

*snicker*
Here you guys go.

thisandagain wrote:

Hi folks,
As many of you have noticed we have added some limits to the Cloud Variables system that previously did not exist. We have added a 128 character limit and we are now restricting cloud variables to be numbers only (no hexadecimal, E-notation, etc). These new limits were put into place to prevent abuse of the cloud variables system that was causing it to be unreasonable to maintain, scale, moderate, and support financially. In addition, these new limits help reduce the possibility of projects like “Chat Rooms” (which are incredibly difficult for the ST to keep safe). We recognize that these new limits may impact some projects, but hope the community will be empathetic in understanding that as a non-profit Scratch needs to make sure that the services we provide are sustainable. Thanks for understanding and sorry it took a few days for us to clarify the situation.

I still don't understand this though.
It's just kinda dumb in my opinion.
Chat Rooms are just as dangerous as the Scratch comment system itself. You can find out who edited cloud variables and when, even if the project doesn't indicate who posted something. If someone's been saying things they shouldn't, the solution is just a report button away.
So the Chat Room argument makes no sense. Making sure the servers run well? I mean, kinda. But still, this is a very annoying choice. In my opinion, we Scratchers need more freedom, not less. We're not all just little kids tinkering around and making dumb stuff.
How said freedom can be given? Well, if we could run new forms of cloud variables off of our own severs, that'd be sweet.

Chat rooms are a whole lot harder to moderate than the Scratch comment system. The Scratch comment system has filters, report buttons per comment, are not encoded in numbers, and are easily visible by everyone. If the Scratch Team has to go inside a project, figure out how to decode the cloud, and go through potentially hundreds of numbers of cloud log(many cloud engines are not conservative with writes) just to possibly find someone saying mean things, it's not worth it.

The server will run it to problems without limitations, because if someone decides to write 1 million digits of pi to the server every .5 seconds per user, it's going to cause problems. Cloud variables couldn't be used with private servers either because while we may not all be little kids, there are little kids on here. That means that everything has to be moderatable which private servers non accessible to the Scratch Team definitely are not.

Hi folks, in preparation for the release of Scratch 3.0 cloud variables now have a limit of 256 characters. We are still considering other improvements / extensions to this system, but for now I hope you folks appreciate a little extra storage space.

thisandagain wrote:

Hi folks, in preparation for the release of Scratch 3.0 cloud variables now have a limit of 256 characters. We are still considering other improvements / extensions to this system, but for now I hope you folks appreciate a little extra storage space.

Ooooh, that's cool. I can't wait for what's in store for 3.0, even if the limit stays the same!

thisandagain wrote:

Hi folks, in preparation for the release of Scratch 3.0 cloud variables now have a limit of 256 characters. We are still considering other improvements / extensions to this system, but for now I hope you folks appreciate a little extra storage space.

Nice…

(And, yes, I think the extra storage is enough to make 10-player multiplayer more feasible, while not bringing the cloud servers down to their knees again.)


Hoping the “improvements/extensions” being considered include something like the Scratch player buffering cloud updates a little (to be sent in a single ‘lumped update’ request every frame or two, rather than each individual cloudvar update being sent as a separate request as soon as it happens), so reducing the common problem Scratchers have with cloud disconnect that comes from writing loops that naively update cloudvars every pass.

Also, of course, there's https://github.com/LLK/scratch-gui/issues/3358…

thisandagain wrote:

Hi folks, in preparation for the release of Scratch 3.0 cloud variables now have a limit of 256 characters. We are still considering other improvements / extensions to this system, but for now I hope you folks appreciate a little extra storage space.

When you say characters do you mean that lettered storage will be allowed or is it just going to stay as numbers only?

TheLogFather wrote:

thisandagain wrote:

Hi folks, in preparation for the release of Scratch 3.0 cloud variables now have a limit of 256 characters. We are still considering other improvements / extensions to this system, but for now I hope you folks appreciate a little extra storage space.

Nice…

(And, yes, I think the extra storage is enough to make 10-player multiplayer more feasible, while not bringing the cloud servers down to their knees again.)


Hoping the “improvements/extensions” being considered include something like the Scratch player buffering cloud updates a little (to be sent in a single ‘lumped update’ request every frame or two, rather than each individual cloudvar update being sent as a separate request as soon as it happens), so reducing the common problem Scratchers have with cloud disconnect that comes from writing loops that naively update cloudvars every pass.

Also, of course, there's https://github.com/LLK/scratch-gui/issues/3358…

Why not have it in Frame Buffers and a ‘tick’ system (sort of like how most MMO games work)?
The tick-time could be adjusted by server load and the fact that you need to make it into a queue would let people with higher latency's get a better connection (instead of just being dropped).

The “multiplayer” concept is no longer active, because cloud variables require you to refresh. Oh well.
128 character limit, and no words. I wish it didn't have to be this way.