Discuss Scratch

-TheBlackParade-
New to Scratch
21 posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

Recently, with Pride month and everything, I have seen a lot of pro-LGBT studios/projects/discussions and stuff, and a lot of people reacting to these by expressing their opposing political views. When this is done respectfully, it's all fine. Obviously, it's not always done respectfully, but that's besides the point. Scratch welcomes everybody, including members of the LGBT community, supporters of it, and opponents of it. Scratch supports freedom of expression, meaning all of these people can express themselves so long as they do so in a way that respects the views of the other. I'm not saying that we should change this system in any way.

While myself I do support things like gay marriage, I understand that many, particularly more religious people, would disagree. Although I don't think there's any problem with a respectful debate with those who disagree, I do think it's a problem when members of the Scratch Team take a stance on the issue. Maybe this is just me, but when I see this, it gives me the feeling that Scratch itself is taking a stance against those who don't support the LGBT community.

For example, I know that a lot of Scratch Team members have changed their profile pictures to include rainbows in order to commemorate Pride Month. When I see this, it automatically makes me think that a pro-LGBT stance is just Scratch's policy. If I did not, for the most part at least, share in this position, I don't think I would feel particularly welcomed. As per Scratch's Community Guidelines, Scratch welcomes people of all religions (and I assume this extends to all levels of religiousness). But, is it really welcoming to a religious person to see the Scratch Team actively expressing that they disagree with my views?

If a normal user were to express a pro-LGBT position, to somebody who disagrees, that just means somebody here has a different viewpoint. Nobody expects every user here to have the same viewpoints, right? But when a member of the Scratch Team, who can be thought of as a “Scratch official” in a way, does it, it makes you feel like Scratch has an ideology which opposes yours. And that is pretty much the opposite of welcoming.

Therefore, while I support freedom of expression and allowing users here to express their views, I propose that the Scratch Team refrain from taking a stance on any controversial issue. When the Scratch Team endorses a policy, personally this makes me feel like it is Scratch's official policy. The Scratch Team not taking such stances will ensure that nobody feels Scratch is against them - in other words, everybody, no matter their views on controversial issues, can feel welcomed. Scratch's Community Guidelines say that they welcome everyone, and I do not think this can be so as long as the Scratch Team continues to express political viewpoints.

Supporters
• -TheBlackParade-
• Meloetta
• cul8er
• XenoCoding
• Jarraboo
• Blaze349
• MathlyCat
• Dwindsor49
• Chibi-Matoran
• Lolipopcorn
Semi-supporters
• Scratcher1002
• Smurphy13AWESOME
• Penguin9090_new
• Jonathan50
• FancyFoxy
No Supporters
• walkcycle
• LionHeart70
• PrincessPanda_test_/PrincessPandaLover
• turkey3
• WolfCat67

Last edited by -TheBlackParade- (June 29, 2017 08:37:55)

MeIoetta
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

-TheBlackParade- wrote:

Recently, with Pride month and everything, I have seen a lot of pro-LGBT studios/projects/discussions and stuff, and a lot of people reacting to these by expressing their opposing political views. When this is done respectfully, it's all fine. Obviously, it's not always done respectfully, but that's besides the point. Scratch welcomes everybody, including members of the LGBT community, supporters of it, and opponents of it. Scratch supports freedom of expression, meaning all of these people can express themselves so long as they do so in a way that respects the views of the other. I'm not saying that we should change this system in any way.

While myself I do support things like gay marriage, I understand that many, particularly more religious people, would disagree. Although I don't think there's any problem with a respectful debate with those who disagree, I do think it's a problem when members of the Scratch Team take a stance on the issue. Maybe this is just me, but when I see this, it gives me the feeling that Scratch itself is taking a stance against those who don't support the LGBT community.

For example, I know that a lot of Scratch Team members have changed their profile pictures to include rainbows in order to commemorate Pride Month. When I see this, it automatically makes me think that a pro-LGBT stance is just Scratch's policy. If I did not, for the most part at least, share in this position, I don't think I would feel particularly welcomed. As per Scratch's Community Guidelines, Scratch welcomes people of all religions (and I assume this extends to all levels of religiousness). But, is it really welcoming to a religious person to see the Scratch Team actively expressing that they disagree with my views?

If a normal user were to express a pro-LGBT position, to somebody who disagrees, that just means somebody here has a different viewpoint. Nobody expects every user here to have the same viewpoints, right? But when a member of the Scratch Team, who can be thought of as a “Scratch official” in a way, does it, it makes you feel like Scratch has an ideology which opposes yours. And that is pretty much the opposite of welcoming.

Therefore, while I support freedom of expression and allowing users here to express their views, I propose that the Scratch Team refrain from taking a stance on any controversial issue. When the Scratch Team endorses a policy, personally this makes me feel like it is Scratch's official policy. The Scratch Team not taking such stances will ensure that nobody feels Scratch is against them - in other words, everybody, no matter their views on controversial issues, can feel welcomed. Scratch's Community Guidelines say that they welcome everyone, and I do not think this can be so as long as the Scratch Team continues to express political viewpoints.
I agree, ST should not make any statements or promote anything, since in some countries this is illegal. Scratch is a site for programming not promoting anything.

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cul8er
Scratcher
500+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

Support. The ST is here to moderate, not to enter into politics. Changing an icon for Pride Month and following and favouriting pro-LGBT studios and projects are political statements.

Gone.
walkcycle
Scratcher
500+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

No support. Just as we can express ourselves in Scratch, so too can the Scratch Team, collectively and as individuals, express themselves.

Scratch welcomes everybody, including members of the LGBT community, supporters of it, and opponents of it. Scratch supports freedom of expression, meaning all of these people can express themselves so long as they do so in a way that respects the views of the other. I'm not saying that we should change this system in any way.

DownsGameClub
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

While it isn't allowed in some other countries, Scratch makes it clear that their viewpoint is coming from the United States:

Scratch Team, through the terms of service, wrote:

12. Jurisdiction
Scratch is offered by the Scratch Team from its facilities in the United States. The Scratch Team makes no representations that Scratch is appropriate or available for use in other locations. Those who access or use Scratch are responsible for compliance with local law.

cul8er
Scratcher
500+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

DownsGameClub wrote:

While it isn't allowed in some other countries, Scratch makes it clear that their viewpoint is coming from the United States:

Scratch Team, through the terms of service, wrote:

12. Jurisdiction
Scratch is offered by the Scratch Team from its facilities in the United States. The Scratch Team makes no representations that Scratch is appropriate or available for use in other locations. Those who access or use Scratch are responsible for compliance with local law.
That's just referring to what laws they are complying with, not their political views or lack of them.

walkcycle wrote:

No support. Just as we can express ourselves in Scratch, so too can the Scratch Team, collectively and as individuals, express themselves.

Scratch welcomes everybody, including members of the LGBT community, supporters of it, and opponents of it. Scratch supports freedom of expression, meaning all of these people can express themselves so long as they do so in a way that respects the views of the other. I'm not saying that we should change this system in any way.

True, but consider the ST's unique position as representatives of Scratch. If the ST takes a stance on a political issue, then, effectively, Scratch is taking a stance on a political issue. This may make users who have a different, especially an opposite stance, feel unwelcomed.

Gone.
LionHeart70
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

Well, if they support it, they can change their icon to a rainbow flag (or if they are a part of LGBT+ they can change theirs to the pan/bi/etc. flag). In the guidelines, it says Scratch allows people of all ages, races, ethnicities, religions, sexual orientations, and gender identities.. and doesn't LGBT+ fall under that umbrella? There's no reason someone shouldn't be allowed into Scratch or restricted from talking about their viewpoints, unless they're deliberately trying to break the guidelines or offending anyone. Scratch allows free-speech, as long as it isn't hateful and nobody flames about it.
No offense, but no support. Scratch Team, as well as any Scratcher, is free to respectfully share their viewpoints.

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-TheBlackParade-
New to Scratch
21 posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

LionHeart80 wrote:

Well, if they support it, they can change their icon to a rainbow flag (or if they are a part of LGBT+ they can change theirs to the pan/bi/etc. flag). In the guidelines, it says Scratch allows people of all ages, races, ethnicities, religions, sexual orientations, and gender identities.. and doesn't LGBT+ fall under that umbrella? There's no reason someone shouldn't be allowed into Scratch or restricted from talking about their viewpoints, unless they're deliberately trying to break the guidelines or offending anyone. Scratch allows free-speech, as long as it isn't hateful and nobody flames about it.
I'm not disputing any of that. That's all true, and I don't think that we should disallow a regular user to express themselves by changing their icon, making projects/studios, talking to people about it, etc.

= LionHeart180 wrote:

The Scratch Team, as well as any Scratcher, is free to respectfully share their viewpoints.
But when the Scratch Team shares a viewpoint, because the Scratch Team are kind of the representatives of Scratch, it then seems like Scratch itself (as opposed to just some users) has taken this political stance, and that's not welcoming to anybody who doesn't share that stance. As much as I support freedom of expression on Scratch, Scratch is supposed to welcome everybody, and nobody should have to feel like Scratch itself is against them.
XenoCoding
Scratcher
100+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

Support, I am a Christian, and seeing the Scratch Team members with the rainbow background has made me feel very uncomfortable.

It's especially frustrating to see projects supporting the LGBT community or Muslims on the front page (although I respect members of the LGBT community and Muslims), while knowing that a project opposing LGBTs or simply a project on the Christian faith would never make the front page.

Scratcher1002
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

As people I think they should have the ability to say they support something or not, however, I do not think they should make decisions as the Scratch Team as a whole.
DownsGameClub
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

cul8er wrote:

DownsGameClub wrote:

While it isn't allowed in some other countries, Scratch makes it clear that their viewpoint is coming from the United States:

Scratch Team, through the terms of service, wrote:

12. Jurisdiction
Scratch is offered by the Scratch Team from its facilities in the United States. The Scratch Team makes no representations that Scratch is appropriate or available for use in other locations. Those who access or use Scratch are responsible for compliance with local law.
That's just referring to what laws they are complying with, not their political views or lack of them.
But if I said that being gay was okay in a country where it is illegal, doesn't that raise a question of why exactly I said that?

Of course, I would get arrested because that is illegal and a citizenship doesn't fully protect you from other laws a country has. However, the internet is different because you cannot fully control what is posted on there. Knowing that Scratch is an American program means that they may follow things common and legal in the United States. Persons in other countries will then understand that that is a right that we have and move along.

Smurphy13AWESOME
Scratcher
100+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

I would say semi-support. On one hand, I realize that Scratch is supposed to accept everybody and this is kind of edging towards a certain thing which might influence the types of people in Scratch. But on the other hand I like what Cul8er said, they are individuals, eye can express their feelings and beliefs on Scratch like anybody else. They are free people and they are allowed to do this. I respect people like this, that's why I can't decide… I really don't know though!

Last edited by Smurphy13AWESOME (June 28, 2017 21:12:27)


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-TheBlackParade-
New to Scratch
21 posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

DownsGameClub wrote:

cul8er wrote:

DownsGameClub wrote:

While it isn't allowed in some other countries, Scratch makes it clear that their viewpoint is coming from the United States:

Scratch Team, through the terms of service, wrote:

12. Jurisdiction
Scratch is offered by the Scratch Team from its facilities in the United States. The Scratch Team makes no representations that Scratch is appropriate or available for use in other locations. Those who access or use Scratch are responsible for compliance with local law.
That's just referring to what laws they are complying with, not their political views or lack of them.
But if I said that being gay was okay in a country where it is illegal, doesn't that raise a question of why exactly I said that?

Of course, I would get arrested because that is illegal and a citizenship doesn't fully protect you from other laws a country has. However, the internet is different because you cannot fully control what is posted on there. Knowing that Scratch is an American program means that they may follow things common and legal in the United States. Persons in other countries will then understand that that is a right that we have and move along.

There's nothing illegal about Scratch taking a stance on a political issue - they are bound only by United States law. If pro-LGBT speech is illegal in a user's country, it is that user's responsibility to avoid such speech, and since nobody from the Scratch Team (that I know of, at least) are in a country with laws like this, they all can, legally, express a pro-LGBT view.

But just because they legally can, doesn't necessarily mean that they should. Yes, the Scratch Team are all individuals with their own views, but due to their unique positions on Scratch, when they express a political stance it seems as if this is Scratch's political stance. Can Scratch legally take a stance? Yes. But is that welcoming to those who don't share that same stance? I don't think so.

Last edited by -TheBlackParade- (June 28, 2017 21:14:30)

PrincessPanda_test_
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

No support, they're sharing their beliefs, not promoting them into people's faces. How is LGBT political, btw?



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turkey3
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

XenoCoding wrote:

Support, I am a Christian, and seeing the Scratch Team members with the rainbow background has made me feel very uncomfortable.

It's especially frustrating to see projects supporting the LGBT community or Muslims on the front page (although I respect members of the LGBT community and Muslims), while knowing that a project opposing LGBTs or simply a project on the Christian faith would never make the front page.
There is a big difference. One project is supporting something and the other is opposing something. Opposing something is usually when things get quite heated, and opposing any religion or sexual orientation actively I believe is not allowed, but supporting them is fine.

With that said, I do believe if people did something for the “straight” sexual orientation to support it, that should also be allowed. So straight pride, gay pride, etc. should all be allowed. Uplifting ideologies, religions, etc. is all good. Bringing them down and opposing them is not. But I do hope that since LGBT pride and stuff is allowed and gets attention then straight pride should be allowed also. I believe that is only fair. As long as the focus is on not attacking the opposite orientation it should all be allowed.

Last edited by turkey3 (June 29, 2017 00:08:10)


Penguin9090_new
Scratcher
500+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

Partial support.
The ST can share their views as they like on their profile/profile picture; they are other Scratchers after all.
However; I do not like that they put an pro LGBT+ on the front page where everyone can see it.
I think all LGBT+ projects and the like should be marked NFE so they don't get to the front page.

PrincessPanda_test_ wrote:

No support, they're sharing their beliefs, not promoting them into people's faces. How is LGBT political, btw?
As seen through the pro LGBT+ project on featured, I think that they're promoting their beliefs. It's one thing to put it on your profile, but another to put it on the front page of the website where everyone can see. LGBT+ is political in the sense that it's legalization was and still is a highly controversial decision.

turkey3 wrote:

XenoCoding wrote:

Support, I am a Christian, and seeing the Scratch Team members with the rainbow background has made me feel very uncomfortable.

It's especially frustrating to see projects supporting the LGBT community or Muslims on the front page (although I respect members of the LGBT community and Muslims), while knowing that a project opposing LGBTs or simply a project on the Christian faith would never make the front page.
There is a big difference. One project is supporting something and the other is opposing something. Opposing something is usually when things get quite heated, and opposing any religion or sexual orientation actively I believe is not allowed, but supporting them is fine.

With that said, I do believe if people did something for the “straight” sexual orientation to support it, that should also be allowed. So straight pride, gay pride, etc. should all be allowed. Uplifting ideologies, religions, etc. is all good. Bringing them down and opposing them is not. But I do hope that since LGBT pride and stuff is allowed and gets attention then straight pride should be allowed also. I believe that is only fair. As long as the focus is on not attacking the opposite orientation it should all be allowed.
Debates can be respectful sometimes, but most of Scratch isn't mature enough to have calm, rational debates, so I have to agree with you on this. Although I'm not sure “straight pride” or “Christian pride” would show up on the front page. In my 2 1/2 years of Scratch, not once have I seen a pro-Christian project on the front page.

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Jarraboo
Scratcher
15 posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

Support: I considered leaving Scratch when I saw that most of the Scratch Team members(as well as a few people I was following) had changed their profiles for Pride month. I'm a Catholic, so all of this LBGT etc. support on one of my favorite websites makes me a little nervous. Hope the Scratch team sees your statement!

Last edited by Jarraboo (June 29, 2017 01:14:02)

Jonathan50
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

I don't know, I don't like it when the Scratch team does that sort of thing, and it's really really concerning how many children the Scratch team could be indoctrinating with this, but should the Scratch team really not be able to share their opinions?

Last edited by Jonathan50 (June 29, 2017 01:16:16)

Smurphy13AWESOME
Scratcher
100+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

I agree with CinemaSins, the ST needs to see it, right or wrong. How do we do this?

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turkey3
Scratcher
1000+ posts

The Scratch Team Should Not Make Political Statements

Penguin9090_new wrote:

Debates can be respectful sometimes, but most of Scratch isn't mature enough to have calm, rational debates, so I have to agree with you on this. Although I'm not sure “straight pride” or “Christian pride” would show up on the front page. In my 2 1/2 years of Scratch, not once have I seen a pro-Christian project on the front page.
What does the front page matter at all? If that stuff doesn't hit the front page all that means is that the majority of people on the site don't share that pride, but it's not like something's absence from the front page means everyone is attacking that something.

Edit: Well the ST in this case featured a project in particular. But I keep my stance that featuring an LGBT project is not attacking straightness or Christianity. You are right, the Scratch Team is promoting those “beliefs” if you may call them that (I'm not sure what LGBT has to do with beliefs) but it's not like they're causing harm to others.

Last edited by turkey3 (June 29, 2017 01:30:51)


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