It's Time To See The Good In The Most Unique Of All.

liam48D

Chibi-Matoran wrote:
Instead of trying to discourage non-programming content by blocking them from the front page, perhaps Scratch should have a firm “only programming” rule. All other content shall be unshared. Do you think Warrior role-plays would be allowed on Stack Overflow? Why would Scratch allow them?

Example (from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18292/what-are-some-good-ssh-servers-for-windows ):
closed as off topic by Tim Post Mres♦ Aug 17 '11 at 3:10

Questions Projects on Stack Overflow Scratch are expected to relate to programming within the scope defined by the community. Consider editing the question project or leaving comments for improvement if you believe the question project can be reworded changed to fit within the scope. Read more about reopening questions resharing projects here.
If this question project can be reworded changed to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question project.

I.. really hope you're being sarcastic. I can't tell, though.

Scratch should allow them because they have become a part of Scratch. New ideas similar to how Scratch was originally designed probably shouldn't allow them, but Scratch should, because it's become a part of Scratch.

Simply put getting rid of Warrior Cats (and so many other things) would probably cause nearly all of Scratch's community to abandon Scratch, and even their dreams of doing whatever they were going to do, because Scratch was going to be or had been a huge part of it so far.

gdpr533f604550b2f20900645890

I'm actually not sarcastic. Though I don't want Scratch to be as harsh as Stack Overflow, I do wish that it had some sort of ban on non-programming content.

I hear what you are saying about how Warriors and similar topics are already important parts of Scratch culture. However, when I step back and compare what Scratch was meant to be when it was conceived to what it is now, objectively, the differences are shocking. My intent of the post's suggestion was to treat Scratch as if it had taken a very different path from its beginning.

Do you think that my ideas are too radical? I understand that the majority of Scratchers will definitely not agree to a total ban on non-programming content.

Last edited by gdpr533f604550b2f20900645890 (May 29, 2016 18:33:16)

birdoftheday

@cm

I agree with your ideas of a more programming-oriented Scratch, but you are starting to edge into extremism. By implying that the only valid content on Scratch is strictly programming-related you are trying to limit others' creativity and their potential.

Originally I wanted to use Scratch to create animations and earn money for them. Then, I realized that there was a thriving community of mathematically-minded people like me here on Scratch. If your rule were here like you wanted it to be from the beginning, I would've been banned and I would never be here too. In fact, many of your projects when you were first starting out are non-programming oriented too.

I encourage you to branch out and explore other areas of Scratch. While you and I agree that Scratch should encourage more users to program rather than solely create art, I feel that an outright ban on non-programming related content would create an unfriendly atmosphere around this website mainly created so that children can share their creations and ideas.

Last edited by birdoftheday (May 29, 2016 19:18:35)

Firedrake969

Scratch is meant to help children learn to program. That said, you shouldn't “encourage” people to learn by saying “do it this way or don't do it here.”

helloandgoodbye9

PrincessPanda_test_ wrote:
Semi-support, while I agree that we need to promote projects which don't receive attention and show what Scratch really is, you must deal with trends and stuff. You can't brainwash someone into disliking something they really like. Seriously, I used to be a Warriors fan, now I only find Blaze the Cat, the lavender cat from Sonic, the only cat-related thing I like.

Semi-support for OP because of this. The only thing I check is featured projects and top loved games anyways.

Chibi-Matoran wrote:
Instead of trying to discourage non-programming content by blocking them from the front page, perhaps Scratch should have a firm “only programming” rule. All other content shall be unshared. Do you think Warrior role-plays would be allowed on Stack Overflow? Why would Scratch allow them?

Example (from http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18292/what-are-some-good-ssh-servers-for-windows ):
closed as off topic by Tim Post Mres♦ Aug 17 '11 at 3:10

Questions Projects on Stack Overflow Scratch are expected to relate to programming within the scope defined by the community. Consider editing the question project or leaving comments for improvement if you believe the question project can be reworded changed to fit within the scope. Read more about reopening questions resharing projects here.
If this question project can be reworded changed to fit the rules in the help center, please edit the question project.

Lets look at one of your projects.
“Common Sense (A message to the community)”
Not programming, so remove it.
Another one.
“Scratch Camp Sprite Pack”
Only pictures, so remove.
And so on.
If people even go onto the scratch website, they are introduced to the world of programming. I don't think you should just say, “Only programming allowed!” That would cause lots of younger people to not even try Scratch. No support for your idea.

TheCad1

Chibi-Matoran wrote:
Instead of trying to discourage non-programming content by blocking them from the front page, perhaps Scratch should have a firm “only programming” rule. All other content shall be unshared.

Yeah, if they want to share their drawing skills they should go to a drawing website like Toonator or something. #ScratchIsForCoding

Last edited by TheCad1 (May 29, 2016 19:24:25)

Abstract-

Lets go over the Scratch motto here:

Imagine- This part supports art projects, as most art involves somebody imagining. Even if it is not the creator of the art.

Program- I'm guessing this is your favorite part of the Scratch motto. Dragging those blocks together to make sprites and backdrops do things.

Share- This part of the motto encourages both kinds of projects. Sharing, not just projects, but ideas.

I also want to say that if Scratch , collaboration would be out the window. You can't collaborate without somebody making graphics, and a completely pen collaboration ould probably get laggy, as collbaorations are usually making bigger projects. Scratch would also get very much harder to learn, as tutorials would be banned. Banning non-code-based projects would be the same as saying “Goodbye, Scratch community.”

I also recommend you check out the Scratch Team member ceebee sometime. They make mostly art or animation based projets, though they do have code. They even hosted a MAP!

gdpr533f604550b2f20900645890

Lythium wrote:
Uhhh….. yes. That is the purpose of Scratch. To program. Not to draw, or make coloring contests. To program.
Perhaps the motto isn't speaking enough to you. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE isn't just three random words meant to be taken individually. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE is one single phrase. Most people don't seem to get that.

Abstract-, I agree with Lithium that the three words of Scratch's motto are to be considered conjunctively (and) rather than disjunctively (or). Programming should be required for a project to fulfill Scratch's motto.

I personally wouldn't mind an animation if it actually used good programming. Alas, the animations on the front-page are usually ridden with sloppy programming, such as concurrent forever-loops, lack of initialization, and hand-coded costume switching.

EDIT: I just clicked on a random top-loved project, and in the first sprite, the creator literally hand-coded each costume switch and wait, instead of using the “next costume” block. The costumes changes were in order, and the wait times were identical. This was the first project that I clicked.

Last edited by gdpr533f604550b2f20900645890 (May 29, 2016 19:44:04)

birdoftheday

Chibi-Matoran wrote:
Lythium wrote:
Uhhh….. yes. That is the purpose of Scratch. To program. Not to draw, or make coloring contests. To program.
Perhaps the motto isn't speaking enough to you. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE isn't just three random words meant to be taken individually. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE is one single phrase. Most people don't seem to get that.
Abstract-, I agree with Lithium that the three words of Scratch's motto are to be considered conjunctively (and) rather than disjunctively (or). Programming should be required for a project to fulfill Scratch's motto.

I personally wouldn't mind an animation if it actually used good programming. Alas, the animations on the front-page are usually ridden with sloppy programming, such as concurrent forever-loops, lack of initialization, and hand-coded costume switching.

It's still programming, even if it's bad programming. Are you saying that only good programming should be allowed?

helloandgoodbye9

Chibi-Matoran wrote:
Lythium wrote:
Uhhh….. yes. That is the purpose of Scratch. To program. Not to draw, or make coloring contests. To program.
Perhaps the motto isn't speaking enough to you. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE isn't just three random words meant to be taken individually. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE is one single phrase. Most people don't seem to get that.
Abstract-, I agree with Lithium that the three words of Scratch's motto are to be considered conjunctively (and) rather than disjunctively (or). Programming should be required for a project to fulfill Scratch's motto.

I personally wouldn't mind an animation if it actually used good programming. Alas, the animations on the front-page are usually ridden with sloppy programming, such as concurrent forever-loops, lack of initialization, and hand-coded costume switching.

If the project looks good, then it gets featured. Remember, people are learning how to program using scratch.
Im changing to no support as this doesn't affect me.

Last edited by helloandgoodbye9 (May 29, 2016 19:50:52)

birdoftheday

Now, now, even though we don't share opinions, let's try to keep it respectful.

helloandgoodbye9

birdoftheday wrote:
Now, now, even though we don't share opinions, let's try to keep it respectful.

Ok, sorry. Ill edit my post.
BTW you ninja'd me.

Deerleg

Firedrake969 wrote:
Scratch is meant to help children learn to program. That said, you shouldn't “encourage” people to learn by saying “do it this way or don't do it here.”

This.

Also, dress-up projects and art and stuff are all creative and unique in their own right. You can't argue that only programming projects are creative and unique.

As I do understand the point that projects with no scripts at all are kind of redundant, though, I will still say that we should encourage programming as a big part of the Scratch culture. (But then that's already kind of implemented…)

TheCad1

Deerleg wrote:
Firedrake969 wrote:
Scratch is meant to help children learn to program. That said, you shouldn't “encourage” people to learn by saying “do it this way or don't do it here.”
This.

Also, dress-up projects and art and stuff are all creative and unique in their own right. You can't argue that only programming projects are creative and unique.

As I do understand the point that projects with no scripts at all are kind of redundant, though, I will still say that we should encourage programming as a big part of the Scratch culture. (But then that's already kind of implemented…)

Yes, they are unique in their own way, but Scratch is for coding. And to be true, the Warriors projects aren't even truly unique anymore. It's all the same, just cats loving cats and all that. It was unique at first but now it's just flooding the front page. Besides, those projects almost always have little or almost no coding.

gdpr533f604550b2f20900645890

Maybe I'm being too crazy. Since Scratch already has a Warriors-based community, perhaps we should use that was a way to teach people programming.

EDIT: Do you think that FSMs may be used to implement an animation engine? Each tick/frame would be one state.

Last edited by gdpr533f604550b2f20900645890 (May 29, 2016 20:32:54)

gdpr533f604550b2f20900645890

Sometimes, I worry that my own ideas about what Scratch should be are too fanatical to be appropriate.

Abstract-

Chibi-Matoran wrote:
Maybe I'm being too crazy. Since Scratch already has a Warriors-based community, perhaps we should use that was a way to teach people programming.

I like that idea. Use their love of warriors to help inspire them to do a little more programming.

Last edited by Abstract- (May 29, 2016 21:31:05)

MathlyCat

Lythium wrote:
MathlyCat wrote:
I have a few things to point out:

1. Those who say Scratch is all about programming. It's not (you made it sound as if that was the entirety of Scratch's purpose), Scratch is about teaching kids how to program and connect with others, share ideas.
IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE Does the motto not speak to you enough?!

Uhhh….. yes. That is the purpose of Scratch. To program. Not to draw, or make coloring contests. To program.
Perhaps the motto isn't speaking enough to you. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE isn't just three random words meant to be taken individually. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE is one single phrase. Most people don't seem to get that.

Like you said:
the mathematical feline wrote:
Scratch is about teaching kids how to program.

Why do people then treat Scratch like DeviantArt? Or the home of the official Warrior Cat fandom?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think art or music or anything like that should be banned. It's just that programming should be given more importance.

I guess I have the failure to input on this as I'm not one to frequent seeing such projects. I was assuming you were talking about the less intensive fandom projects.

I really think this discussion is simply a fight for a whole programming site. If you were to ask me I think those who support such ideology themselves would be hypocritical of them; they at one point probably posted non-programming related content on Scratch. It's not going to be that way because Scratch is going to differ. I'm glad Scratch is welcome to the younger age and isn't directed for pure programming. Scratch should be welcome to all! Read the Community Guidelines, it's clear the LKG did this for the younger age, to welcome their ideas.

#KeepItThatWay

helloandgoodbye9

MathlyCat wrote:
Lythium wrote:
MathlyCat wrote:
I have a few things to point out:

1. Those who say Scratch is all about programming. It's not (you made it sound as if that was the entirety of Scratch's purpose), Scratch is about teaching kids how to program and connect with others, share ideas.
IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE Does the motto not speak to you enough?!

Uhhh….. yes. That is the purpose of Scratch. To program. Not to draw, or make coloring contests. To program.
Perhaps the motto isn't speaking enough to you. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE isn't just three random words meant to be taken individually. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE is one single phrase. Most people don't seem to get that.

Like you said:
the mathematical feline wrote:
Scratch is about teaching kids how to program.

Why do people then treat Scratch like DeviantArt? Or the home of the official Warrior Cat fandom?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think art or music or anything like that should be banned. It's just that programming should be given more importance.
I guess I have the failure to input on this as I'm not one to frequent seeing such projects. I was assuming you were talking about the less intensive fandom projects.

I really think this discussion is simply a fight for a whole programming site. If you were to ask me I think those who support such ideology themselves would be hypocritical of them; they at one point probably posted non-programming related content on Scratch. It's not going to be that way because Scratch is going to differ. I'm glad Scratch is welcome to the younger age and isn't directed for pure programming. Scratch should be welcome to all! Read the Community Guidelines, it's clear the LKG did this for the younger age, to welcome their ideas.

#KeepItThatWay

^^^
I agree.

Abstract-

MathlyCat wrote:
Lythium wrote:
MathlyCat wrote:
I have a few things to point out:

1. Those who say Scratch is all about programming. It's not (you made it sound as if that was the entirety of Scratch's purpose), Scratch is about teaching kids how to program and connect with others, share ideas.
IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE Does the motto not speak to you enough?!

Uhhh….. yes. That is the purpose of Scratch. To program. Not to draw, or make coloring contests. To program.
Perhaps the motto isn't speaking enough to you. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE isn't just three random words meant to be taken individually. IMAGINE, PROGRAM, SHARE is one single phrase. Most people don't seem to get that.

Like you said:
the mathematical feline wrote:
Scratch is about teaching kids how to program.

Why do people then treat Scratch like DeviantArt? Or the home of the official Warrior Cat fandom?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think art or music or anything like that should be banned. It's just that programming should be given more importance.
I guess I have the failure to input on this as I'm not one to frequent seeing such projects. I was assuming you were talking about the less intensive fandom projects.

I really think this discussion is simply a fight for a whole programming site. If you were to ask me I think those who support such ideology themselves would be hypocritical of them; they at one point probably posted non-programming related content on Scratch. It's not going to be that way because Scratch is going to differ. I'm glad Scratch is welcome to the younger age and isn't directed for pure programming. Scratch should be welcome to all! Read the Community Guidelines, it's clear the LKG did this for the younger age, to welcome their ideas.

#KeepItThatWay

Yah, that is my point explained better ><

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