Discuss Scratch

41 posts


NOTE: This for Team Rumble members ONLY to look at (not that you would want to read this anyways…).

What will NOT be included: Name of the game, Characters, Enemies, Enemy Design, Actual Programming, Style of Graphics, etc.
What WILL be talked about: RPG Mechanics, Gameplay, and Game Design.
DESIGN (I apologize if this contradicts with co13’s story in any way): Cloud variables used to save progress (if possible, since there still aren’t any cloud lists), story in slides like what co13 made but maybe more animated and professional-looking. The story might need to be shortened or extended throughout the game.
Anyways, I was thinking the sky, underground, and psychic areas would just be for major bosses. There could be sub-areas, like an asteroid belt, frozen area, lava area, etc. where there could be alien creatures as well as the occasional spaceship. The 3 boss areas could be bases and only have spaceships with the boss at the end. And don’t you guys think there should be a final boss after these 3 areas, or is the 3rd one already the final boss?
So progression, how would that go? Hmm… because of the randomized nature present so far, all battles would be random in a selected area. There would be a (scrolling?) world map where you select an area to enter in, which would enter you into a battle. There should be at least 3-5 enemies in an area so the each area is varied enough. For sub-areas, the first battle should be planned to ease the player into each new sub-area. Then we could have them get harder as more battles are fought. Maybe 5 successful battles could introduce a new enemy for example.
QUESTION: DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD HAVE ENEMY LEVELS OR NOT? The level of an enemy would determine its individual stats. It may not be necessary, but maybe we could use it to recycle certain enemies (programmed to have upgraded abilities if they are above a certain level?), and to increase slightly in each sub-area to prevent battles from getting too easy or starting off unfairly hard (there would be a cap of course).
Now let’s talk about boss areas. The planets could be randomized, but the enemies would be PRE-PLANNED. You would have to survive a certain # of rounds before fighting the boss. These enemies would of course be enemy ships and designed to fit in the area they are located in (I gave skeletonxf some ideas…). Anyways, it would be cool if these bosses could be MASSIVE, and more defensively focused than offensively focused overall (based on what the player already went through). They could have slow and predictable attacks, but with a HUGE range overall.
Enough about enemy design, let’s talk about out-of-battle features. There would only be a shop (as of now), which would include a store area and crafting area. The store would be where you buy powerful and exclusive (types of) weapons with unique abilities, but for an expensive price. The crafting area would be where you can use certain resources/minerals (picked up in battle) that can enhance a certain trait of a weapon ONLY if it includes it (like atk for example).

Regarding the progression of the game, I feel the player should be a certain level before progressing to the next area. This seems like a necessary inclusion, and I apologize if it conflicts with the story. Anyways, if it’s possible with the cloud features that are available (unless we don’t include any of those features), we should include an achievements/challenges system that rewards players with XP for things like defeating a certain number of enemies or more obscure stuff.
*There will be a maximum of 50 levels, and you gain XP from battles.
Stats: With stats, the base will be the same for everyone, with the ability to increase specific stats per level gained, and items will USUALLY have the most influence.
*With the following stat descriptions below, “level” refers to leveling up, and “choice per level” (cpl) refers to the stat that you choose when leveling up. You gain 3 cpl per level!!! The level range for that depends on how many times you choose that stat (50 max, allowing you to max out 3 stats).
HP- Hit Points, affected by damage. Base= 100+10(level)+5(cpl 1->10)+10(cpl 11->20)…etc.
MP- Magic Points, drains when you use a magic ability. Base= 50+4(level)+8(cpl 1->10)+10(cpl 11->20)…etc.
SP- Special Points. Used for forcefields, invisibility, flying, etc. Rather than being drained each time you use a special power, it drains WHILE using one. This is probably the most niche out of all the stats. Base= 80+1(level)+1(cpl 1->20)+2(cpl 21->40)+3(cpl 41->50)
*You can see that these stats have different scaling, especially regarding the cpl. While these stats will be present in items as well, they will be most beneficial from cpl. Since HP would be the most common in items, it would only be very useful if you devoted a lot of your cpl into it. MP unlike HP greatly benefits each time you use it making it great to invest in for almost any playstyle, but it doesn’t scale well and may be more useful as a secondary cpl. SP is the most niche (only found in a select few items) and barely benefits from leveling up, but investing in it could become EXTREMELY useful when playing stealthily.
Atk- Attack Power, associated with certain weapons and abilities. Base= 20+0(level)+5(cpl)
Magic- Magical Attack Power, associated with certain weapons and abilities. Base= 20+0(level)+5(cpl)
*With the attack stats, most of the power comes from the equipment held by the player (weapons in particular). There is no passive gain per level, which can allow the player to focus solely on one stat. The cpl also has no scaling and is more useful early on in the game, but its boost could still be important to ones playstyle.
Def- Defense against regular attacks . Base= 20+2(level)+3(cpl 1->25)+4(cpl 26->50)
Res- Defense against magic attacks . Base= 20+2(level)+3(cpl 1->25)+4(cpl 26->50)
Agi- Speed of the player at all times. Base= 20+0(level)+1(cpl 21->50)
*Agility is another stat that is meant to benefit from items. It is a more sensitive stat, with 50 being the “average” speed that the player should be. The ability to increase the stat is unlocked at level 21, and is useful with “glass cannon” and/or stealth-focused playstyles later in the game as enemy attacks get much harder to manually dodge.
Skill- The ability to block attacks and debuff the target. Generally associated with MP-based playstyles.
Base= 5+1(even level)+2(cpl 26->50)
Luck- The ability to hit the target and get a critical hit. Associated with most melee playstyles.
Base= 5+1(even level) +2(cpl 26->50)
*Skill and luck go hand-and-hand with magic and atk (for the most part). “Even level” means that the stat increases on level 2, 4, 6, 8, etc. As you can tell by the low stat values, this is more of a minor stat (but still just as important), and investing it is more detrimental for later-game playstyles.
*Skill and luck are commonly found in most types of equipment, but they are broken down. BLOCK and DEBUFF are associated with skill, while accuracy and crit are associated with luck.
Ability Stats:
Accuracy- Chance of hitting targets for the specific ability. It’s pretty much the same as the main accuracy sub-stat, but it has its own base value. More powerful/risky abilities have a lower base value, but may be very accurate with a higher accuracy/luck.
Crit- Self-explanatory
Debuff- Self-explanatory.
*For the ability stats, the final stat would be the base (for the ability) times some proportion associated with the sub-stat.
Here’s a FULL example: 25 luck -> 25 accuracy +50 from items ->75 accuracy…… 50 base accuracy plus 75acc/3 = 75% accuracy. So basically, the most powerful spells with a low base accuracy might be nearly impossible to use unless you have a high accuracy stat.

GAMEPLAY: This is essentially RPG Mechanics Part 2…
BURN: Increased Speed, Moderate Duration, Major Damage Taken
FREEZE: Stuns enemy, Increased Defenses, Long Duration (which would really only be a few seconds), Moderate Damage Taken.
STUN: Stuns enemy, Short Duration, No Damage Taken, Decreased Defenses.
Infect: Decreased Offenses, Long Duration, Little Damage Taken.
*These are just a few ideas, and there would also be buffs from specific abilities for the player.
ELEMENTS?: With the types of areas already planned, I would assume there would be elemental strengths and weaknesses that would be found in nearly ALL types of attacks (though more significant in magic ones). Unlike the simplistic approach of games like Pokemon, your strengths and weaknesses would come from individual items. Let’s say a piece of armor has 8% A Defense. If A was weak to B, then you would be 6% weaker to B (so it isn’t a complete trade-off and is actually beneficial). There could be various scenarios… Like if armor gave you +8% A Defense while a ring gave you +15% B Defense; you’re A Defense would then be -3.25% while your B Defense would be 9%. I feel this could lead to some VERY interesting things, though I’m not sure if you guys would like this idea much or just prefer the more simplistic approach. The enemies would of course follow the simplistic approach, and their strengths and weaknesses would hopefully be predictable enough based on their design.
MELEE-INFLUENCED ELEMENTS: This isn’t a major point, but I was just wondering what you guys would think of an element or 2 associated with melee weapons, like “Metal” for example? Could work, right?
SKILL GRID: I was thinking about having Skill Trees, but figured that a Skill Grid would be better. When you level up, you would gain 2 grid points, which could be used to purchase or upgrade a skill. There would be a total of 60 abilities in 5 different categories, with 3 upgrades each. With only 5 abilities able to be used in battle, most of your abilities would be useless, but they could include small stat buffs. Certain abilities would also have advantages in specific areas if we included elements into the game.
Power: Related to most melee playstyles and includes physical abilities, atk buffs, and luck buffs.
Magic: Related to ranged MP-heavy playstyles and includes magic abilities, magic buffs, and MP gains.
Defense: Related to tanky playstyles and includes shield abilities, defensive buffs, and HP gains.
Stealth: Related to stealthy playstyles and includes stealth abilities (like invisibility), speed buffs, skill buffs. THERE WILL NOT BE ANY SP GAINS AT THIS POINT.
Intelligence: This is a very obscure category that can provide various benefits such as EXP gains and other helpful stuff that can make the game easier or harder for you.

12345= ATTACKS (you have only 5 set attacks and abilities to choose from, but you can change them outside of battle at will.)
*In this game, there will only be HP, MP, and SP potions, but they will be upgradable at the shop (so you don’t have to deal with multiple levels of potions).
EQUIPMENT: Equipment will have multiple types for each with specific distinctions, but each of that kind will be different from each other with stat bonuses proportional to equipment level as well as rare “enchantments” if you’re lucky. As I said before, you pick up equipment from winning battles.
*NOTE: Ability stats are used in regard to basic attacks ONLY.
Weapons: There will be numerous types of weapons suited for multiple playstyles.
Axehammer- Close-ranged, physical, slow speed, VERY high attack and crit, low accuracy overall, increases HP.
Sword- Close-ranged, physical, medium speed, high attack, crit, and accuracy overall.
Knife- Close-ranged, physical and/or magic, very fast speed, medium attack, high crit and accuracy, low debuff overall.
Zoomerang- Medium-ranged, physical, bounces back, fast speed, high attack and accuracy, medium/low crit overall.
Katana- Medium-ranged, physical and/or magic, fast speed, medium attack and accuracy, medium/low debuff overall, increases SP.
Orblet Gun- Medium-ranged, magic, slow speed, low attack, high accuracy, high debuff overall.
Plasma Beam- Long-ranged, physical and/or magic, medium speed, high attack, medium accuracy and debuff, low crit overall.
Wand- Long-ranged, magic, slow speed, medium attack, medium/low accuracy, very high debuff, increases MP.
Staff- Long-ranged, magic, very slow speed, low attack, high accuracy and debuff, increases HP and MP.
*Basic attacks are affected exactly like abilities, and they will require more powerful skill and/or luck stats as their weapon level is greater.
SHIELDS: Focuses on defenses (no HP), slows speed, required to use forcefields.
HELMETS: Focuses on offenses.
BOOTS: Focuses on speed, may include an SP boost among other stuff.
GLOVES: Focuses on skill, luck, and SP, but may provide an attack boost.
ARMOR: Focuses on HP and defenses, may include MP boosts as well.
RINGS: Focuses on elemental offenses and defenses, may provide an MP or SP boost.
— Thanks for taking the time to read this guide. I hope I gave you guys enough ideas to get started on this project. Good luck! –gamer2012

Last edited by gamer2012 (Aug. 18, 2013 22:03:48)

33 posts


Some further DEBUFF suggestions

<->Electrify<-> High damage versus animal and metal based units but quite weak against psychic / energy ones
<->Fear<-> No effect on metal, causes random, uncontrollable movements on animals and weaker effect on psychic / energy ones
(Would cause x and y vels to be affected my random directions each frame, causing movement but not actually likely to move target very far)
<->Poison<-> Go to debuff for early grinding versus animal creatures, useless lategame
<->Virus<-> Go to debuff for high reward grinding versus metal creatures to maybe steal their minerals?
<->Energy drain<-> Go to debuff for shutting down the melee powers of psychic/ energy creatures
(Would still have minimal effect versus animal and metal but not so useful)
<->Bleed<-> Another easier farming debuff to get low level?

So we need (not ordered in priority at all)
1) A finished menu - I'm working on it
2) A level select / map / way to integrate levels - Won't be needed till after arcade mode
3) Music - I could do with some keywords for what you want the game to feel like
4) Tonnes of stats ‘n stuff - Might not need to implement every single one for the arcade mode
5) INVENTORY - That will take some work
6) HP/SP/MP Pot system - Need more graphics for those
7) Character graphics - No one has said what the player looks like yet
8) Spell select - maybe another circle menu could be used to key bind each 1-5 key to the numerous spells the player would have

And guys, the player needs a mouse hand for easy R flight. We should make use of the mouse click. Maybe the default costless attack or possibly a dodge/blink/dash function?
One hand managing W-A-S-D-E-R-T-1-2-3-4-5-Space could be a little difficult. I think we should let E-R-T-Space at the very least be clickable buttons to use with the mouse as well. Such a shame Scratch can’t sense mouse buttons or scroll wheel anymore, or right click for the matter. We could have stuck all the spells onto the player's mouse hand and free'd up the WASD hand for actually moving.

You have no idea how much Scratch cradles you from the frustration of syntax errors.
41 posts


Good ideas. Thanks for the debuff suggestions, and I knew the controls wouldn't work well. Hopefully you guys know enough to get stuff accomplished.
33 posts


gamer2012 wrote:

Good ideas. Thanks for the debuff suggestions, and I knew the controls wouldn't work well. Hopefully you guys know enough to get stuff accomplished.
Menus I'm fine with, Key binding I can do, AI I'm happy with doing, but I have no practise at making an inventory, though I'm starting to plan it.
We really need to finish the HUD with all the features put into it.

You have no idea how much Scratch cradles you from the frustration of syntax errors.
36 posts


That's a lot a bit difficult for me to reply to so I'm going to make a kind of short post. Well the ideas are AMAZING and I agree w/all of them as long as you can keep the game as close as possibly to the story and are able to finish it by August27th. Looks like I won't be doing any work for the weapons (of course I can before I'm offline) unless you want me to. Actually YES I can if you need help. I'll either work on it early tomorrow, the next day, or on the 25th-27th (early). IMPORTANT NOTE (This is a must or you do not receive credit besides engine credit)!: You use your ideas but stick to the story. It's possible to do both. Since I agree that's pretty much it. However tell me here or on my profile (no-where else) if you need help or not. See T.R. and a message on the Orbit engine by me (the deal may be invalid by now but still see it considering I saw this late, since I didn't see the comment).

Update Note: I am helping you with the weapons or starting is myself as soon as I can considering I also need to work on the planet forces with crab (curiouscrab)

Last edited by co13 (Aug. 21, 2013 16:20:48)

33 posts


Well, HUD, Inventory, Essential code for AI dev, and a list called Player attributes using odd number ID's for data and even for labels DONE.

Co13's done all the weapon graphics and begun damage values. Now we need the HP system and some of the bugs in the engine ironed out.
Not to pressure you gamer, but

You have no idea how much Scratch cradles you from the frustration of syntax errors.

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