Discuss Scratch

dowcwow
Scratcher
67 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios


zorket
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

dowcwow wrote:

Sorry, the image has to be uploaded online.

Try out my new strategy/luck game: Battleship!
PhirripSyrrip
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

zorket wrote:

dowcwow wrote:

Sorry, the image has to be uploaded online.
In any case, please don't post this here, the Questions About Scratch Forum is a much better place to ask . In any case, you can use the Search feature to find out if it's already been answered (which I'm sure it has been)

; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;You thought I'd get away from you, didn't you?!
DotDash
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

I just noticed I was the first person to support

My browser / operating system: MacOS Macintosh X 10.8.5, Chrome 29.0.1547.76, Flash 11.8 (release 800)
tcodina
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

I totally agree with you. I hate having my projects in their studios. I rejected to curate their studios. Another problem to the curators of the studios: They get many notifications saying: New activity in “Add everything” studio. I don't know why they created the studio; For fame? For competing? Anyways, i cannot agree more with you.

PhirripSyrrip
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Wow, I never expected so many people to read this campaign!

; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;You thought I'd get away from you, didn't you?!
krish15
Scratcher
52 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

zorket wrote:

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

LeDerpy123 wrote:

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

Rumanti wrote:

This studios had made many of us angry. Then, why do ST let it? They're annoying enough. They're also hurtful, and a sensitive person could felt trolled. This. Is. CYBER. BULLYING

I'm going to count what kind of Scratcher make those AE studios by how long they've registered. Believe me, 3 of them are made by new scratchers, 1 are by only-one-month-old scratchers. Maybe tomorrow. I'll have to leave PC soon.

What really terrors me that most of the creators of AE studios are New .. Scratchers…
Yes, I suspect that.
I don't think new scratchers should be allowed to make studios, like they can't use cloud data.
YES! That's such a good suggestion!
…at least on first impressions. I'm sure someone can find a way in which it's a bad idea, but this is one of my favourite ideas so far. I'll add it to the list.

Sooo…. anyone who said that they like the last option before this post actually meant the third last option.
We could disable new studios from new scratchers, but what about the existing studios?

People could report the existing studios.

~ Krish15

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Spyderblade
Scratcher
100+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

I read the whole thing, and I totally agree. My projects have been subject to many - shall we say - enthusiastic scratchers, wishing to have the largest studio ever.
When my project gets added to a studio called “Best Projects from the Best Scratcher”, I look like this and I click on the studio to see what they have.
When my project gets added to a studio called “11,000 PROJECTS!!! - ADD EVERYTHING YOU SEE!!!!!”, I look like this and I don't even bother clicking on the studio.
Please add me to the list of supporters!

Last edited by Spyderblade (Aug. 22, 2013 15:14:46)


“I was determined to know beans.” ~ Henry David Thoreau, Walden
TardBreaded
Scratcher
13 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

zorket wrote:

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

LeDerpy123 wrote:

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

Rumanti wrote:

This studios had made many of us angry. Then, why do ST let it? They're annoying enough. They're also hurtful, and a sensitive person could felt trolled. This. Is. CYBER. BULLYING

I'm going to count what kind of Scratcher make those AE studios by how long they've registered. Believe me, 3 of them are made by new scratchers, 1 are by only-one-month-old scratchers. Maybe tomorrow. I'll have to leave PC soon.

What really terrors me that most of the creators of AE studios are New .. Scratchers…
Yes, I suspect that.
I don't think new scratchers should be allowed to make studios, like they can't use cloud data.
YES! That's such a good suggestion!
…at least on first impressions. I'm sure someone can find a way in which it's a bad idea, but this is one of my favourite ideas so far. I'll add it to the list.

Sooo…. anyone who said that they like the last option before this post actually meant the third last option.
We could disable new studios from new scratchers, but what about the existing studios?

NO!! WHAT IF NEW SCRATCHERS MADE CC'S AND THEY NEED A ******* STUDIO!? THEN THEY CANT KEEP TRACK OF THERE ENTRIES
PhirripSyrrip
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Ok everyone, I have something new to report.

Inspired by LeDerpy123's Post, I went undercover on my test account to see how many AE studios would accept spam projects to help them reach 100000 projects, or whatever figure is associated with this studio title. Here are the results:



And my personal favourite:



In fact, out of the seven AE studios to reply, here are the rest of the replies to similar questions of mine:
• Sure. It will be great if you could make some games or meaningful projects as well!
• You can if you want
• um try not to make them piontless
• ya
• ok.

So, out of seven spam studios to reply, only one rejected adding spam projects and five allowed me without any resistance (I didn't actually spam those spam studios!).

The thing is, that once someone sets a target “lets get to 1000000 projects”, quite often, that person will do anything to achieve that goal. I believe that the fault in this situation isn't with the studio owners but with the people offering to add spam projects to spam studios.

And so I draw a conclusion from these results. Disagree with me if you feel I've misinterpreted these results, but I believe that these studios are proving to be real targets and encouragement for spam projects on the website. The ST said that they won't ban spam studios (because they don't believe that it's spam) but surely spam projects is a whole new argument?

Note: DO NOT find these users who's names I've censored and send them hateful messages- there's no need for that and we're working to find a solution here without any arguments.

Last edited by PhirripSyrrip (Aug. 22, 2013 15:36:34)


; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;You thought I'd get away from you, didn't you?!
WacksPoop
Scratcher
5 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

MUST SUPPORT!
WacksPoop
Scratcher
5 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

TardBreaded wrote:

zorket wrote:

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

LeDerpy123 wrote:

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

Rumanti wrote:

This studios had made many of us angry. Then, why do ST let it? They're annoying enough. They're also hurtful, and a sensitive person could felt trolled. This. Is. CYBER. BULLYING

I'm going to count what kind of Scratcher make those AE studios by how long they've registered. Believe me, 3 of them are made by new scratchers, 1 are by only-one-month-old scratchers. Maybe tomorrow. I'll have to leave PC soon.

What really terrors me that most of the creators of AE studios are New .. Scratchers…
Yes, I suspect that.
I don't think new scratchers should be allowed to make studios, like they can't use cloud data.
YES! That's such a good suggestion!
…at least on first impressions. I'm sure someone can find a way in which it's a bad idea, but this is one of my favourite ideas so far. I'll add it to the list.

Sooo…. anyone who said that they like the last option before this post actually meant the third last option.
We could disable new studios from new scratchers, but what about the existing studios?

NO!! WHAT IF NEW SCRATCHERS MADE CC'S AND THEY NEED A ******* STUDIO!? THEN THEY CANT KEEP TRACK OF THERE ENTRIES
Uhh.. I joined since Jan 2011, am I free?
WacksPoop
Scratcher
5 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

Hello everybody,

Please don't be put off by the hideously long length of this post, bear with me! At least read sections 1 and 5.

This post aims to solve the current problem of the countless studios that aim to “add every project”. Notice the wording of this campaign- I don't intend to get them all deleted from the website, there are several other solutions which I will outline in this post. As this post is very long, I'll try to get the most important info across at the start and then let me know if you support this and what you think.

Contents:
1. Are these studios really a problem?
2. What are studios meant to be for?
3. Are “add everything” studios really that useless?
4. But what does the Scratch Team think?
5. Possible Solutions
6. Supporters
7. How many of these studios are there?
  1. Are these studios really a problem?
    At the time of writing, this project was recently featured. It was in 55 studios. 25 of them were “add everything” studios (45%).
    The way I see it, there is a problem for two parties: the creator of the project and the viewers.

    Creator's problem: Imagine if you spend days if not weeks if not months on a project to try to make it the best it possibly can be. Your project is themed on, say, Medieval England and you want to share your knowledge to teach other people. You spend a very long time perfecting and improving it in the hope that people will view it, think “Hey, this project's really cool, I never knew Medieval England was so interesting, where can I find out more?” at which point they will see your studio for Medieval England and can find all your other projects about different topics of Medieval England. The viewer discovers a new love of a subject and the creator's aim of getting more people interested in Medieval England is achieved.

    Here's how the “add everything” studios mess everything up. There is only room for ten studios to appear with a project and their vertical arrangement mean that only the first three or four are really seen by the viewer. Being a well-made project, it attracts attention and is added to seventy galleries. Some of these are relevant. Many others are not. Then, the odds of a relevant studio of reaching those precious three or four positions next to the project harshly drop. People will view the project. People will like the project. People will comment “Cool Project!” and “Awesome ”.

    What's missing, however, is that crucial next stage that the creator intended, the part where the viewer is interested in a project and wants to find out more but they can't as it looks like this is the only project of its sort when in fact the creator had spent a lot of time and effort to create a studio where there are similar projects. Then the distractions of the internet carry the viewer away and they forget everything they learnt. The Scratch motto is Imagine, Program, Share. Well, it looks like the creator isn't getting much help sharing.

    Another problem for the creator caused by these “add everything” studios is more of a personal one, but I have seen it many times before.

    When a project is added to lots of “add everything” studios, it's basically saying “this project that took two weeks to make is just as good as this one which took two minutes. Just another average project.” There are users who go through this thought process, including myself. This point is especially true if the only studios that a project is added to are these “add everything” studios.

    Viewer's problem: One of the links on the blue bar at the top of every page is “Explore”. All of these “add everything” studios are just making it harder for people to explore topics. As curiouscrab put it:

    curiouscrab wrote:

    When I try to search let's say "everything about [topic name]“ or ”everything [topic name]" the search results are a ton of add everything studios.
    The “add everything” studios are just noise- they don't help people including the viewer in the above example.

    We also need to think about the creators of these studios. Do we really want them to focus on these studios instead of using Scratch as it's meant to be used?

    I also have some evidence to suggest that spam studios can encourage spam projects, as I explained in this post.

    If you still feel unclear as to why “add everything” studios need removing, have a look at some of the responses to this post- some people make very good points unmentioned here.

    Wes64 made an excellent project highlighting many more problems of “add everything” studios.

  2. What are Studios meant to be for?
    Here's a paragraph from the Scratch Wiki page for galleries (basically the same as studios):
    Use:

    Galleries are used for any of the following:

    • Sources to view projects of a certain type
    • Displaying past curator picks
    • Company headquarters
    • RPG grounds
    • Organizing contest entries

    There is no specific use for a gallery — they can be used for anything.
    If only studios stuck to those first five points. Unfortunately, user's freedom of the final line of the extract has been misused and so I am now writing this. You might think “Surely a useless studio should be treated as spam, just like a useless comment”.

  3. Are “add everything” studios really that useless?
    A quote from a Scratcher who is pro-add-everything:
    They are a good way of sharing your videos. Lots of people go on the studio so loads of people see your vids.
    Ignoring the fact that s/he seems to think Scratch = YouTube, this is a common argument for why they should be allowed. But is it really true?

    I went to the most popular “add everything” studio that I could be bothered to find (133 followers) and viewed a few projects. Most had 10-30 views. There were a few more popular ones but it would seen that they were positively correlated to user-popularity instead of their presence in the “add everything” studio. I then viewed some projects of some perhaps less well-known Scratchers that follow me and found that they too had 10-30 views and were not added in any of these “add everything” studios. Criticise me if my methods are faulty but my conclusion is that the arguments of the Scratcher I quoted above are wrong. “Add everything” studios do not increase views for “vids”.

    The problem is that popular studios like the one that I linked to have such a fast rate of adding projects and so are less likely to be seen. Less popular ones with a lower rate of adding projects have fewer followers to view them.

    But I ask myself if the projects in “add everything” studios are really meant to be viewed? I'm pretty sure that they're not. Rather, the purpose I think is because people who curate these studios only focus on the numbers. They only care about the number of followers, the number of projects and they don't seem to think about the impacts made in point one of this post.

  4. But what does the Scratch Team think?
    I've seen several posts floating about saying that the ST don't intend to take action. I found this post of Paddle2See on this issue:

    Paddle2See wrote:

    I'm not a big fan of “add everything” studios. They don't help people find projects with a particular theme - because they have no theme and accept anything. It's possible, though, that they might serve a social purpose, if they can attract enough people interested in seeing the studio grow larger. It doesn't cost the site much to host them - just a few more thousand rows in the project-studio relationship table. And there is nothing in the Community Guidelines that says that a studio needs to have a specific theme - so they might as well enjoy their project collections
    Personally, I agree with absolutely everything that Paddle2See said, even the final part: "so they might as well enjoy their project collections " The purpose of this post is to highlight some issues that perhaps the ST did not think about, those stated in point one of this post. And to propose some solutions. So, without further ado…

  5. Possible Solutions

    Ban “add everything” studios- A popular solution among many Scratchers but it does have many problems. I think that it is extremely immoral and would be disheartening to go to someone who has created an “add everything” studio and delete it on the basis that it is “useless”. Alright, you can disguise this by banning it on the basis of “spam”, but think about this: apart from the fact that many “add everything” studios have “add everything” in their name (often capitalised), it would be hard to prove that a studio is in fact an “add everything” studio. Someone could name a studio “Projects” but use it as an “add everything” studio. It would be hard to prove whether the user was in fact creating a banned “add everything” studio or in fact they just found lots and lots of projects really interesting and thought that it deserved being in the studio. Again, the Scratch motto is “Imagine, Program, Share”, so how can you stop people from sharing things that they want? As Paddle2See said, they don't break the Community Guidelines.

    Notify Users when a Project is added to any Studio- I fully support this idea- it's always nice to know when something has happened to any of your projects. You get notifications for love-its, favourites, remixes so why not when it's added to a studio? However, while this would be a nice thing to see added, it doesn't actually solve any of the problems mentioned in point one. Fine, at least you'll know that your project is becoming less and less relevant but there's nothing you can do about it.

    Ask Scratcher's Permission to add their projects to a studio- Again, a nice idea but it does have flaws. What if you're making a studio of “Awesome Games” and you want add projects to it. The problem is, what if you want to add a project of a user who is no longer active? Then you'd be stuck. This idea would create limitations to studios and make them less useful.

    You could have an “activity” score for each user, graded just like volcanoes as Active, Dormant or Extinct. If a user is not active, there would be no need to have their permission before you can add their project to a studio. However, this does have drawbacks- what if a user is on camp or on holiday and can't access the internet to accept or deny these requests. By this system, either the projects will be added without the creator knowing, defeating the purpose of asking for permission, or the person who wants to add the projects has to wait a long time for the creator to get back and then the projects will be added. This would disrupt fluency and I can't see how this idea would work. You don't need permission to remix so why do you need permission to add it to a studio?

    Let users remove their own projects from studios- Another popular idea which seems nice at first, but the only problem with this that I can see is that people may start removing all their projects from every studio that they are in which again damages the freedom that studios should have. Again, you can't remove remixes of your project so why should you remove projects from studios?

    Discourage “add everything” studios- The easiest option and least troublesome. The ST could mention somewhere that projects should be put in studios for a reason and that you shouldn't just accept anything. All of you can help to discourage “add everything” studios- merely by replying to this post you're bumping it up for more owners of “add everything” studios to see that lots of people dislike them.

    Hide “add everything” studios from the list of studios that a project is in- And so we come to my favourite solution. Let me explain it:
    The idea is that creators of projects can choose which studios to hide from the list of studios that a project is in that appears next to the project. The project will still be in all the “add everything” studios but they won't appear in the list of studios. This means that the list of ten studios contains only studios that the creator has approved of being seen and hides any that just take up space. When you click “view all studios this project is in” you'll see all the studios, including the “add everything” ones. I think that this idea works to best for the creator of the project, the viewers and the owners of “add everything” studios.

    Limit the number of projects in “add everything” studios- while this won't end the problem, it will limit it. By capping it at, say, 500-1,000 projects, I'd say that we are getting rid of all studios except for the useful studios. Any studio that intends to get its projects seen in the way that most studios are meant for should have less than 1,000 projects. Studios that are part of collaborations that make more projects and could overstep the limit could just remove old projects added to the studio.

    Only allow Scratchers to create Studios- again, this won't end the problem entirely, but if you look at most “add everything” studios, they have been created by New Scratchers seeking fame. This rule would limit those studios while New Scratchers learn of better ways to get fame (such as making good projects, or posting on the forums).

Supporters:
  1. PhirripSyrrip
  2. DotDash
  3. dracae
  4. turkey3
  5. SuperNicky
  6. ProdigyZeta7
  7. BobStanley
  8. numberonegamers
  9. cheeseeater
  10. StarscreamClone
  11. krish15
  12. mitchboy
  13. LeDerpy123
  14. blueservine
  15. Firedrake969
  16. jh1234l
  17. Williamja
  18. joshuaho
  19. zorket
  20. Failord
  21. seanbobe
  22. Wes64
  23. FrozenFIsh13
  24. lauraisawsome
  25. Eintity
  26. Flyboy
  27. skeletonxf
  28. chocolatepenguin
  29. PH-zero
  30. eaglgenes101
  31. mario91100
  32. Kenichi10
  33. clubpenguin552222
  34. GreenDog3
  35. WeElites
  36. coinman
  37. curiouscrab
  38. creative_scratcher
  39. mariobros406
  40. mikey350
  41. ToxicQuillz
  42. aidenpoms
  43. Rumanti
  44. my2ndaccount
  45. tcodina
  46. Spyderblade
  47. WacksPoop

Conclusion: I think that the best plan to solve the problem of “add everything” studios would be to combine solutions 2, 5 and 6. Thank you for reading if you've gotten this far! Tell me what you think. Do you support my proposal? I'll add you to the list of supporters. Tell me if you've got a solution I haven't listed.

How many of these studios are there?
LeDerpy123 calculated that it looks like there are at least 50,000 of these studios.

LeDerpy123 wrote:

I have a new statistic to report.
I did a Google Advanced Search and found that there are about 3,550 studios that contain the exact phrase, “add all projects”.
1,110 containing “add everything”.
213 containing “biggest gallery”.
33 containing “biggest studio”.
47,800 containing “add your projects”.
This adds up to 52,706 ae studios and counting!
BTW, this is the search term I used: “insert studio name here” site:scratch.mit.edu/studios
There were also 11,700 for “Add all your projects”.
I was shocked when I saw just how many of these there are- I thought I was just seeing the same one over and over again. Here is a very much incomplete list, started by curiouscrab but I've added many more:{list removed by moderator}
If all of my projects was in add everything studios, I would blow my head off. Let's do this!

Last edited by cheddargirl (Aug. 27, 2013 00:10:03)

Iamoldsam10
Scratcher
6 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

I SUPPORT ENTIRELY feel free to add me to the list of supporters also PLEASE TELL EVERYONE WHEN WE REATCH 50 SUPPORTERS!!! WE ARE SO CLOSE
dragon321
Scratcher
13 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

I agree with combining solutions 2, 5, and 6 and I also support goodwill scratching. I know about a studio supporting goodwill scratching and you can look at it here:http://scratch.mit.edu/studios/237091/projects/. I also have a suggestion: that people that support goodwill scratching should put "I don't do follow-for-follow etc. Again, this only a suggestion, so you don't have to do this.

I really hope the ST does something about this!
PhirripSyrrip
Scratcher
500+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

dragon321 wrote:

I agree with combining solutions 2, 5, and 6 and I also support goodwill scratching. I know about a studio supporting goodwill scratching and you can look at it here:http://scratch.mit.edu/studios/237091/projects/. I also have a suggestion: that people that support goodwill scratching should put "I don't do follow-for-follow etc. Again, this only a suggestion, so you don't have to do this.

I really hope the ST does something about this!
Yes, I curate that studio. I think that's a different issue though, and we should sort this out first.

; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;You thought I'd get away from you, didn't you?!
cheeseeater
Scratcher
1000+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

PhirripSyrrip wrote:

Ok everyone, I have something new to report.

Inspired by LeDerpy123's Post, I went undercover on my test account to see how many AE studios would accept spam projects to help them reach 100000 projects, or whatever figure is associated with this studio title. Here are the results:



And my personal favourite:



In fact, out of the seven AE studios to reply, here are the rest of the replies to similar questions of mine:
• Sure. It will be great if you could make some games or meaningful projects as well!
• You can if you want
• um try not to make them piontless
• ya
• ok.

So, out of seven spam studios to reply, only one rejected adding spam projects and five allowed me without any resistance (I didn't actually spam those spam studios!).

The thing is, that once someone sets a target “lets get to 1000000 projects”, quite often, that person will do anything to achieve that goal. I believe that the fault in this situation isn't with the studio owners but with the people offering to add spam projects to spam studios.

And so I draw a conclusion from these results. Disagree with me if you feel I've misinterpreted these results, but I believe that these studios are proving to be real targets and encouragement for spam projects on the website. The ST said that they won't ban spam studios (because they don't believe that it's spam) but surely spam projects is a whole new argument?

Note: DO NOT find these users who's names I've censored and send them hateful messages- there's no need for that and we're working to find a solution here without any arguments.
Whoooooooow! These people don't care what you add! This is serious now! Something needs to be done!
V360
Scratcher
2 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Support!
Redsox5803
Scratcher
100+ posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

I support this idea. These add yourself studios are pointless.

heyo heyo get down from the table
it's dangerous woaah ~redsox
digger101
Scratcher
15 posts

Possible Solutions for the Problem of "ADD EVERYTHING" Studios

Support.

Almost all projects I view on the front page have a ton of AE studios. Instead of seeing projects that are similar to FP'd ones, we see random stuff that is not like the project the user is currently viewing. Studios are meant to house relevant projects, such as music and game genres.

Digger101, Flash newbie, average Scratcher.
Browser/OS: (Insert_Correct_Browser_Stuff_Here. . Or just , Flash 11.8 , but that is a fail. )

All errors in the above post are just errors. Move along with your day, people. XD

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