pasta_enjoyer7 wrote:

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

I mean actually anybody that's against it object rn.

Sure. I'd say I am against banning it outright. But keep in mind that the forums aren't really a poll system, so even if majority agrees, the Scratch Team may not take it into consideration. Vice versa, as well! It really depends on their goals for the site, to be honest.

-HeartAngel- wrote:

Could there perhaps be a compromise? An announcement about the uses of AI, then discourage it for the consequences?

That's a good idea! I would ask, though - if there's an announcement (which I feel would probably be targeted towards how to use it for Scratch, although of course this is just my opinion) - and then it's banned completely, wouldn't that sort of be counter-intuitive?

Mmm yeah a compromise might be best, just because of how hard it would be to enforce it…

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

Mmm yeah a compromise might be best, just because of how hard it would be to enforce it…

As the original poster of the suggestion, do you have any ideas towards what the compromise would be? :)

pasta_enjoyer7 wrote:

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

Mmm yeah a compromise might be best, just because of how hard it would be to enforce it…

As the original poster of the suggestion, do you have any ideas towards what the compromise would be? :)

Well yes actually, so I think that scratch team should make an announcement saying something along the lines of, “We heavily discourage the use of AI generated images due to it's unethical consequences. We cannot enforce this ourselves, but we ask that when using this site you do not post images generated by AI due to (insert literally everything I've been saying for the past three days). If you wish to learn more, click here!”

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

Well yes actually, so I think that scratch team should make an announcement saying something along the lines of, “We heavily discourage the use of AI generated images due to it's unethical consequences. We cannot enforce this ourselves, but we ask that when using this site you do not post images generated by AI due to (insert literally everything I've been saying for the past three days). If you wish to learn more, click here!”

Okay, thanks for that. So when they say “…we ask that…” is that implying consequences, would you think? Or is it just a general statement to sort of inspire people to not use it? Hope you don't mind me clarifying.

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

pasta_enjoyer7 wrote:

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

Mmm yeah a compromise might be best, just because of how hard it would be to enforce it…

As the original poster of the suggestion, do you have any ideas towards what the compromise would be? :)

Well yes actually, so I think that scratch team should make an announcement saying something along the lines of, “We heavily discourage the use of AI generated images due to it's unethical consequences. We cannot enforce this ourselves, but we ask that when using this site you do not post images generated by AI due to (insert literally everything I've been saying for the past three days). If you wish to learn more, click here!”

and then after the click here theres like you know like all the stuff me and everybody else has been saying for the past three days.

Most reasonable way to force this imo is if your project heavily relies on AI art for production purposes and you don’t say it’s ai or claim it as your own, the project gets taken down.

SidewaysCoder wrote:

There cannot. Scratch Team shouldn't just force people to stop using AI image generators. That would cause a lot of backlash by the community.

I never said force. It is probably too abrupt and harsh to immediately enforce a total ban on ai ^^ what I meant was discouragement. Something like, “we've seen ai been used around scratch recently. Ai is good for (reasons). However, for (reasons), ai is discouraged.”

pasta_enjoyer7 wrote:

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

Well yes actually, so I think that scratch team should make an announcement saying something along the lines of, “We heavily discourage the use of AI generated images due to it's unethical consequences. We cannot enforce this ourselves, but we ask that when using this site you do not post images generated by AI due to (insert literally everything I've been saying for the past three days). If you wish to learn more, click here!”

Okay, thanks for that. So when they say “…we ask that…” is that implying consequences, would you think? Or is it just a general statement to sort of inspire people to not use it? Hope you don't mind me clarifying.

Mostly just inspiring people to not use it, but I would assume that ST would ask them to refrain from using AI if they choose to, and ALSO basically anyone using AI would basically be highly unwelcome on scratch. But no probably not real consequences just because of how hard it would be to enforce.

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

pasta_enjoyer7 wrote:

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

Well yes actually, so I think that scratch team should make an announcement saying something along the lines of, “We heavily discourage the use of AI generated images due to it's unethical consequences. We cannot enforce this ourselves, but we ask that when using this site you do not post images generated by AI due to (insert literally everything I've been saying for the past three days). If you wish to learn more, click here!”

Okay, thanks for that. So when they say “…we ask that…” is that implying consequences, would you think? Or is it just a general statement to sort of inspire people to not use it? Hope you don't mind me clarifying.

Mostly just inspiring people to not use it, but I would assume that ST would ask them to refrain from using AI if they choose to, and ALSO basically anyone using AI would basically be highly unwelcome on scratch. But no probably not real consequences just because of how hard it would be to enforce.

I completely agree with this!! ^^

I'm going to help the for side real quickly by saying the AI companies are making ways to check if an image is AI generated or not, such as SynthID — which works by making the AI image itself have invisible watermarks embedded into it.

Obviously this wont catch every AI image — but some is enough. This also seems to be automatable.

I've become neutral on this suggestion (for now). I'll just help a side when I feel like it :P

I am with you! AI is terrible. artist have creativity. A! does not. AI has no soul. I am fully with you and support AI being taken down on scratch.

o97doge wrote:

I'm going to help the for side real quickly by saying the AI companies are making ways to check if an image is AI generated or not, such as SynthID — which works by making the AI image itself have embedded watermarks.

Obviously this wont catch every AI image — but some is enough. This also seems to be automat-able.

I've become neutral on this suggestion (for now).

Oh wow if its automat-able then we could just build in an auto ban AI generated images thingie that would be great scratch team wouldnt have to do anything!!!

-HeartAngel- wrote:

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

Mostly just inspiring people to not use it, but I would assume that ST would ask them to refrain from using AI if they choose to, and ALSO basically anyone using AI would basically be highly unwelcome on scratch. But no probably not real consequences just because of how hard it would be to enforce.

I completely agree with this!! ^^

Okay, gotcha! I also think that's a fair compromise… assuming, of course, the “highly unwelcome” part is worded very very gently, so people aren't turned off from using the website, and also so the Community Guidelines are kept in shape.

SidewaysCoder wrote:

-HeartAngel- wrote:

Could there perhaps be a compromise? An announcement about the uses of AI, then discourage it for the consequences?

There cannot. Scratch Team shouldn't just force people to stop using AI image generators. That would cause a lot of backlash by the community.

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

Yeah but the point is, if adding blood to your projects was allowed, there would be way more projects with blood, there are not very many projects with blood BECAUSE people know that it's not allowed. It's not about banning, it's about how people won't do it and will learn about the consequences when they realize it's outlawed :3 :3 :3

There aren't a lot of projects with blood because the projects that have blood have been taken down before. But with blood, it's easy to tell if something is blood or not. With AI images, you cannot tell easily if it is AI generated or not - and some images can be cleverly manipulated so as to not look like it is AI generated. Overall, the idea of banning AI images is unenforceable by nature and should not be done.

I think what @PurpleSpector is saying is that just the threat of your project being taken down if you use AI would stop people from using it as much. The blood thing is just an an example of an effect like that that already exists

Hairstreak wrote:

SidewaysCoder wrote:

-HeartAngel- wrote:

Could there perhaps be a compromise? An announcement about the uses of AI, then discourage it for the consequences?

There cannot. Scratch Team shouldn't just force people to stop using AI image generators. That would cause a lot of backlash by the community.

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

Yeah but the point is, if adding blood to your projects was allowed, there would be way more projects with blood, there are not very many projects with blood BECAUSE people know that it's not allowed. It's not about banning, it's about how people won't do it and will learn about the consequences when they realize it's outlawed :3 :3 :3

There aren't a lot of projects with blood because the projects that have blood have been taken down before. But with blood, it's easy to tell if something is blood or not. With AI images, you cannot tell easily if it is AI generated or not - and some images can be cleverly manipulated so as to not look like it is AI generated. Overall, the idea of banning AI images is unenforceable by nature and should not be done.

I think what @PurpleSpector is saying is that just the threat of your project being taken down if you use AI would stop people from using it as much. The blood thing is just an an example of an effect like that that already exists

YES EXACTLY THANK YOU

I don't really know how a person could stop AI. Unless scratch team see's this and lets the website take down AI. I say if your projects have no AI for art your in the clear. If your art is called “art” though its just AI then scratch should take it down. Or if you also just steal art or something and claim it as your own then take it down.

Scratch_Cat_Coder8 I agree .

WigglerWendsday wrote:

I say if your projects have no AI for art your in the clear. If your art is called “art” though its just AI then scratch should take it down. Or if you also just steal art or something and claim it as your own then take it down.

Just to add, if you see a project like that, you could certainly report it as “This project is misleading or tries to trick the community.”

CodeComet6161 wrote:

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

pasta_enjoyer7 wrote:

-PurpleSpecter- wrote:

I mean using AI is basically letting someone else do the work for you, and not only someone else but an art thief, it's still not being creative no matter what and essentially defeats the point of scratch by teaching kids to not do the work yourself.

Not if you work with AI - for example, brainstorming ideas with it and asking it for pointers. That's generally not what people do, but it is an option, which I believe should be encouraged over just banning it completely. This is just an opinion, though :)

Mmm fair point, but why ask AI when you can ask a real person?

mainly bc we doont have anyone around to actually do that so we go on the computer and we can find images there. Plane and Simple.

Sorry I meant plain and simple

TL;DR: I'm against banning AI entirely but I can see why restrictions would be required.

I have never used nor seen any AI on scratch, but it seems fair that its starting to pop up around the place now.

Banning AI art as a whole would most likely be impossible, if there's already some of it on existing projects and people would be upset if their projects were taken down over a new rule against AI. However AI companies are currently under fire for obtaining training data without permission, so we don't know how the future will play out.

Also as AI gets smarter it gets harder to tell which is which, and last thing anyone wants is to be accused of using AI when they actually made something themselves. There's a lot of “is this AI???” on every corner of the internet and it can get obnoxious to people who just want to make art.

Some people who are horrendous at art (myself included) would probably benefit from AI generated images on certain projects for graphic design. I don't see any reason why people couldn't use AI for things like character and art design on games, because for people like me it's either the choice between not making it at all or using AI to assist in a field that I'm bad at.

Obviously using AI for contests and completely art based projects would be upsetting, but said contest owners could simply disqualify those results, and projects won't show up often if people see that it's AI and refuse to heart/star.

May I ask what the exact argument for “AI is horrible and stuff” is? I don't see any giant dangers about AI that could affect scratch too much. Plus I don't have the time to read through every post lol.