gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

could also be people who use linux and hate the microsoft & apple ecosystem.

microsoft:
use our cloud storage!
download our updates!
sign up with our accounts and use our emailing service!

apple:
buy an iPad!
buy an iPhone!
buy an iMac!
buy a MacBook!
buy an Apple Watch!
oh yeah, also make yourself an Apple ID and use our app stores, while you're at it!

linux:
delete french language pack..got it
root@kali: sudo rm -rf –no-preserve-root /
what happened to my computer?

tUrtleBloxMC1 wrote:

(#3421)

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

could also be people who use linux and hate the microsoft & apple ecosystem.

microsoft:
use our cloud storage!
download our updates!
sign up with our accounts and use our emailing service!

apple:
buy an iPad!
buy an iPhone!
buy an iMac!
buy a MacBook!
buy an Apple Watch!
oh yeah, also make yourself an Apple ID and use our app stores, while you're at it!

linux:
delete french language pack..got it
root@kali: sudo rm -rf –no-preserve-root /
what happened to my computer?

Linux would be awesome if it actually worked for an average desktop user out-of-the box, AND had decent mainstream software support.

kkidslogin wrote:

tUrtleBloxMC1 wrote:

(#3421)

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

could also be people who use linux and hate the microsoft & apple ecosystem.

microsoft:
use our cloud storage!
download our updates!
sign up with our accounts and use our emailing service!

apple:
buy an iPad!
buy an iPhone!
buy an iMac!
buy a MacBook!
buy an Apple Watch!
oh yeah, also make yourself an Apple ID and use our app stores, while you're at it!

linux:
delete french language pack..got it
root@kali: sudo rm -rf –no-preserve-root /
what happened to my computer?

Linux would be awesome if it actually worked for an average desktop user out-of-the box, AND had decent mainstream software support.

while I don't know that much about Linux, i'm pretty sure you can use wine for running a lot of windows exclusive programs on Linux right?

tUrtleBloxMC1 wrote:

georgek0 wrote:

tUrtleBloxMC1 wrote:

NanoRook wrote:

tUrtleBloxMC1 wrote:

-snip

whoops… use it as my default search engine…
and have… 15000 Rewards points?
totally not a Bing long time user.

i actually have 10,000 rewards points and i only signed up like…wait, that was 6+ months ago?!
Wait, that was…. 9 months ago? PS: Clippy is just a bad reward. Nothing special, right?

kkidslogin wrote:

tUrtleBloxMC1 wrote:

(#3421)

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

could also be people who use linux and hate the microsoft & apple ecosystem.

microsoft:
use our cloud storage!
download our updates!
sign up with our accounts and use our emailing service!

apple:
buy an iPad!
buy an iPhone!
buy an iMac!
buy a MacBook!
buy an Apple Watch!
oh yeah, also make yourself an Apple ID and use our app stores, while you're at it!

linux:
delete french language pack..got it
root@kali: sudo rm -rf –no-preserve-root /
what happened to my computer?

Linux would be awesome if it actually worked for an average desktop user out-of-the box, AND had decent mainstream software support.

Don't know if I should say this: I'm in Dual Boot with Linux.

SMG5SC wrote:

kkidslogin wrote:

tUrtleBloxMC1 wrote:

(#3421)

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

could also be people who use linux and hate the microsoft & apple ecosystem.

microsoft:
use our cloud storage!
download our updates!
sign up with our accounts and use our emailing service!

apple:
buy an iPad!
buy an iPhone!
buy an iMac!
buy a MacBook!
buy an Apple Watch!
oh yeah, also make yourself an Apple ID and use our app stores, while you're at it!

linux:
delete french language pack..got it
root@kali: sudo rm -rf –no-preserve-root /
what happened to my computer?

Linux would be awesome if it actually worked for an average desktop user out-of-the box, AND had decent mainstream software support.

while I don't know that much about Linux, i'm pretty sure you can use wine for running a lot of windows exclusive programs on Linux right?

Doesn't sound very out-of-the-box to me.

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

Literally every tech forum I browse now that has a Windows discussion thread is inevitably crowded by Linux users who insist that I'm not a real software engineering student because I prefer to use the OS that works as opposed to the one that needs military helicopter levels of user maintenance to function. It is hopeless. Someone please sue the Linux Foundation into bankruptcy

SMG5SC wrote:

while I don't know that much about Linux, i'm pretty sure you can use wine for running a lot of windows exclusive programs on Linux right?

People pretend that Wine is a magic bullet for running everything but it really, really isn't. It is really only good for games. Most applications I tried with it either straight up didn't launch or performed 10x worse than they would on Windows (sound cutting out, massive input lag, etc.). Like Mac, Linux is not serious about having software on their platform.

NanoRook wrote:

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

Literally every tech forum I browse now that has a Windows discussion thread is inevitably crowded by Linux users who insist that I'm not a real software engineering student because I prefer to use the OS that works as opposed to the one that needs military helicopter levels of user maintenance to function. It is hopeless. Someone please sue the Linux Foundation into bankruptcy

SMG5SC wrote:

while I don't know that much about Linux, i'm pretty sure you can use wine for running a lot of windows exclusive programs on Linux right?

People pretend that Wine is a magic bullet for running everything but it really, really isn't. It is really only good for games. Most applications I tried with it either straight up didn't launch or performed 10x worse than they would on Windows (sound cutting out, massive input lag, etc.). Like Mac, Linux is not serious about having software on their platform.

Oh software on Linux works fine, it just has to be native (really I'm not surprised that wine is slow). Software developers are not serious about having their software run on Linux, so there isn't much software for it.

kkidslogin wrote:

NanoRook wrote:

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

Literally every tech forum I browse now that has a Windows discussion thread is inevitably crowded by Linux users who insist that I'm not a real software engineering student because I prefer to use the OS that works as opposed to the one that needs military helicopter levels of user maintenance to function. It is hopeless. Someone please sue the Linux Foundation into bankruptcy

SMG5SC wrote:

while I don't know that much about Linux, i'm pretty sure you can use wine for running a lot of windows exclusive programs on Linux right?

People pretend that Wine is a magic bullet for running everything but it really, really isn't. It is really only good for games. Most applications I tried with it either straight up didn't launch or performed 10x worse than they would on Windows (sound cutting out, massive input lag, etc.). Like Mac, Linux is not serious about having software on their platform.

Oh software on Linux works fine, it just has to be native (really I'm not surprised that wine is slow). Software developers are not serious about having their software run on Linux, so there isn't much software for it.

Yeah that's kind of the frustrating thing for me. Linux native is fantastic. It's my preferred development environment because I don't have to fiddle with stupid PATH stuff or env variables, I just enter a few terminal commands and woah, hey, I've got a comfortable C development environment. I will probably put Mint on my second computer this summer when I have the time just for that. But as a desktop experience? lol

Software developers are not serious about running their stuff natively because software distribution is a nightmare. There are like four or five different package managers with their own formats and eccentricities, on top of all the other unique and special things Linux wants you to do to make your program compile natively. Not only that, but if you release closed source software on any package manager you get jumped by a thousand GPL extremists who live in a fantasy world where everything should be 100% FLOSS and people shouldn't be allowed to make money off of their software. All that to support like 2% of the OS market.

Just use whatever OS you guys want to use you don't have to listen to other people's opinions. That's what I think lol

NanoRook wrote:

kkidslogin wrote:

NanoRook wrote:

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

Literally every tech forum I browse now that has a Windows discussion thread is inevitably crowded by Linux users who insist that I'm not a real software engineering student because I prefer to use the OS that works as opposed to the one that needs military helicopter levels of user maintenance to function. It is hopeless. Someone please sue the Linux Foundation into bankruptcy

SMG5SC wrote:

while I don't know that much about Linux, i'm pretty sure you can use wine for running a lot of windows exclusive programs on Linux right?

People pretend that Wine is a magic bullet for running everything but it really, really isn't. It is really only good for games. Most applications I tried with it either straight up didn't launch or performed 10x worse than they would on Windows (sound cutting out, massive input lag, etc.). Like Mac, Linux is not serious about having software on their platform.

Oh software on Linux works fine, it just has to be native (really I'm not surprised that wine is slow). Software developers are not serious about having their software run on Linux, so there isn't much software for it.

Yeah that's kind of the frustrating thing for me. Linux native is fantastic. It's my preferred development environment because I don't have to fiddle with stupid PATH stuff or env variables, I just enter a few terminal commands and woah, hey, I've got a comfortable C development environment. I will probably put Mint on my second computer this summer when I have the time just for that. But as a desktop experience? lol

Software developers are not serious about running their stuff natively because software distribution is a nightmare. There are like four or five different package managers with their own formats and eccentricities, on top of all the other unique and special things Linux wants you to do to make your program compile natively. Not only that, but if you release closed source software on any package manager you get jumped by a thousand GPL extremists who live in a fantasy world where everything should be 100% FLOSS and people shouldn't be allowed to make money off of their software. All that to support like 2% of the OS market.

Which is exactly why developers shouldn't use the package manager and should just force Linux users to download the package from the developer's website like everyone else.

…this is why i hate linux, they take over everything ;_;

kkidslogin wrote:

NanoRook wrote:

kkidslogin wrote:

Oh software on Linux works fine, it just has to be native (really I'm not surprised that wine is slow). Software developers are not serious about having their software run on Linux, so there isn't much software for it.

Yeah that's kind of the frustrating thing for me. Linux native is fantastic. It's my preferred development environment because I don't have to fiddle with stupid PATH stuff or env variables, I just enter a few terminal commands and woah, hey, I've got a comfortable C development environment. I will probably put Mint on my second computer this summer when I have the time just for that. But as a desktop experience? lol

Software developers are not serious about running their stuff natively because software distribution is a nightmare. There are like four or five different package managers with their own formats and eccentricities, on top of all the other unique and special things Linux wants you to do to make your program compile natively. Not only that, but if you release closed source software on any package manager you get jumped by a thousand GPL extremists who live in a fantasy world where everything should be 100% FLOSS and people shouldn't be allowed to make money off of their software. All that to support like 2% of the OS market.

Which is exactly why developers shouldn't use the package manager and should just force Linux users to download the package from the developer's website like everyone else.

And then some devs didn't bother building their apps and just released the source code of them. Don't bother with them. Most likely you will be playing the package manager's game, instead of your computer. Especially when you're building something old, where you're trying to avoid anachronisms by using libraries that's years newer than the app you're trying to build. Possible, yes, but practical it is not.

I've said this once and I'll say it again. If only all Linux apps were packaged like Windows apps, where each app carries the libraries they need, this problem wouldn't be a thing. Alas, few considered this option, be it redundant or just inelegant, and rather delegate that task into the hivemind we call package managers. The result? A centralized system that's has spaghetti dependencies, such that when one package gets updated, a dozen more follows suit. And when the manager can't decide which version of a package to install? Congratulations, your install is toast. You only have the nuclear option—delete all of the offending packages, or worse, reinstall your system.

Edit: snipped the very long quote

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

And then some devs didn't bother building their apps and just released the source code of them. Don't bother with them. Most likely you will be playing the package manager's game, instead of your computer. Especially when you're building something old, where you're trying to avoid anachronisms by using libraries that's years newer than the app you're trying to build. Possible, yes, but practical it is not.

I've said this once and I'll say it again. If only all Linux apps were packaged like Windows apps, where each app carries the libraries they need, this problem wouldn't be a thing. Alas, few considered this option, be it redundant or just inelegant, and rather delegate that task into the hivemind we call package managers. The result? A centralized system that's has spaghetti dependencies, such that when one package gets updated, a dozen more follows suit. And when the manager can't decide which version of a package to install? Congratulations, your install is toast. You only have the nuclear option—delete all of the offending packages, or worse, reinstall your system.

*cough* goes to show that Windows is better then Linux *cough COUGH*

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

kkidslogin wrote:

NanoRook wrote:

kkidslogin wrote:

Oh software on Linux works fine, it just has to be native (really I'm not surprised that wine is slow). Software developers are not serious about having their software run on Linux, so there isn't much software for it.

Yeah that's kind of the frustrating thing for me. Linux native is fantastic. It's my preferred development environment because I don't have to fiddle with stupid PATH stuff or env variables, I just enter a few terminal commands and woah, hey, I've got a comfortable C development environment. I will probably put Mint on my second computer this summer when I have the time just for that. But as a desktop experience? lol

Software developers are not serious about running their stuff natively because software distribution is a nightmare. There are like four or five different package managers with their own formats and eccentricities, on top of all the other unique and special things Linux wants you to do to make your program compile natively. Not only that, but if you release closed source software on any package manager you get jumped by a thousand GPL extremists who live in a fantasy world where everything should be 100% FLOSS and people shouldn't be allowed to make money off of their software. All that to support like 2% of the OS market.

Which is exactly why developers shouldn't use the package manager and should just force Linux users to download the package from the developer's website like everyone else.

And then some devs didn't bother building their apps and just released the source code of them. Don't bother with them. Most likely you will be playing the package manager's game, instead of your computer. Especially when you're building something old, where you're trying to avoid anachronisms by using libraries that's years newer than the app you're trying to build. Possible, yes, but practical it is not.

I've said this once and I'll say it again. If only all Linux apps were packaged like Windows apps, where each app carries the libraries they need, this problem wouldn't be a thing. Alas, few considered this option, be it redundant or just inelegant, and rather delegate that task into the hivemind we call package managers. The result? A centralized system that's has spaghetti dependencies, such that when one package gets updated, a dozen more follows suit. And when the manager can't decide which version of a package to install? Congratulations, your install is toast. You only have the nuclear option—delete all of the offending packages, or worse, reinstall your system.

Edit: snipped the very long quote

can'tsnip bc I'mon mobile sorry
That's true, and is certainly a problem. Perhaps a way to fix it would be to allow multiple versions of a package, which tbh already exists. However, when I wrote my last post I was more thinking of closed-source/commercial software that likely already bundles everything it needs in with it. E.G. Studio One 7's Linux binaries.

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

And then some devs didn't bother building their apps and just released the source code of them. Don't bother with them. Most likely you will be playing the package manager's game, instead of your computer. Especially when you're building something old, where you're trying to avoid anachronisms by using libraries that's years newer than the app you're trying to build. Possible, yes, but practical it is not.

I've done this quite a lot with a retro Ubuntu setup, hunting down tarballs for old libraries so I could install the headers and compile more software. Now that I've compiled Bochs, DOSBox and nasm for the system, I can say I've taken it well out of the realm of uselessness. I can even browse modern websites using my build of Dillo against the latest version of OpenSSL.

NanoRook wrote:

SMG5SC wrote:

while I don't know that much about Linux, i'm pretty sure you can use wine for running a lot of windows exclusive programs on Linux right?

People pretend that Wine is a magic bullet for running everything but it really, really isn't. It is really only good for games. Most applications I tried with it either straight up didn't launch or performed 10x worse than they would on Windows (sound cutting out, massive input lag, etc.). Like Mac, Linux is not serious about having software on their platform.

The two main Windows applications I run elsewhere are MS Paint (from Windows XP) and OpenMPT; these work admirably in Wine. I've only had issues with the Tidal client and a few other applications that run natively on Linux.

On another note, “Linux” is not a single entity. There's an enormous amount of developers – including professional ones – working on the kernel and userland components that make up a Linux distribution.

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

I can only imagine hating Windows if I was forced to sysadmin on it. Makes no sense to hate on Windows as if it's inferior to Linux (or Mac) in all ways– it mostly works fine

NanoRook wrote:

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

Literally every tech forum I browse now that has a Windows discussion thread is inevitably crowded by Linux users who insist that I'm not a real software engineering student because I prefer to use the OS that works as opposed to the one that needs military helicopter levels of user maintenance to function. It is hopeless. Someone please sue the Linux Foundation into bankruptcy

SMG5SC wrote:

while I don't know that much about Linux, i'm pretty sure you can use wine for running a lot of windows exclusive programs on Linux right?

People pretend that Wine is a magic bullet for running everything but it really, really isn't. It is really only good for games. Most applications I tried with it either straight up didn't launch or performed 10x worse than they would on Windows (sound cutting out, massive input lag, etc.). Like Mac, Linux is not serious about having software on their platform.

It's just trash. Can't run almost every program. Tried running a .exe installer, all the time a “missing dll dependency”. For Wine I go to Zorin OS live, it has basically one of the best wine out there.

ajskateboarder wrote:

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

I can only imagine hating Windows if I was forced to sysadmin on it. Makes no sense to hate on Windows as if it's inferior to Linux (or Mac) in all ways– it mostly works fine

apart from Bitlocker.

gilbert_given_189 wrote:

No offense, but I feel like all of these Windows haters are a bunch of paranoid conspiratorialists

Honestly, I don't hate Windows- I just think it's inferior to Linux and MacOS, and it can be annoying when it does random stuff without asking you first (take, for example, plugging a Windows computer into a 4k 55" TV screen- it automatically sets the scale of everything on that screen to 300%, making it look like it's running on a small tablet, rather than setting it to something more reasonable like 200%, or just asking you first (some of us want our massive screens to be able to actually display more than our monitors). Or, if that's not annoying enough, at least you can be sure that most Linux distros aren't selling your personal info behind your back).