Ban or discourage typing quirks that hinder accessibility

ajskateboarder

Look, I understand typing quirks are a way of expressing yourself, but there comes a point where they just get in the way. Many typing quirks can make comments incredibly hard for people to understand or read as-is/with a screenreader. And, after a certain point, they can make comments outright impossible to translate into other languages. These issues can also potentially hurt moderation in the case that a comment should be reported

With these problems in mind, I think Scratch could at least include a report option for comments being too hard to read

Last edited by ajskateboarder (Nov. 15, 2024 23:13:11)

scratchcode1_2_3

Can you give some examples? Some I can think of are Typing Every Starting Letter Of Every Single World As Capital Ones.

M1mikyu

scratchcode1_2_3 wrote:
Can you give some examples? Some I can think of are Typing Every Starting Letter Of Every Single World As Capital Ones.

tvp1n6 l1k3 th15 (typing like this) for example.
this isn't even the worst type of typing quirk I've seen

scratchcode1_2_3

M1mikyu wrote:
(#3)
scratchcode1_2_3 wrote:
Can you give some examples? Some I can think of are Typing Every Starting Letter Of Every Single World As Capital Ones.
tvp1n6 l1k3 th15 (typing like this) for example.
this isn't even the worst type of typing quirk I've seen

uh-uh WHAT? genuinely who writes like that? Have you really seen people do that? Who would waste their time writing like that just to waste other people's time?

M1mikyu

scratchcode1_2_3 wrote:
M1mikyu wrote:
(#3)
scratchcode1_2_3 wrote:
Can you give some examples? Some I can think of are Typing Every Starting Letter Of Every Single World As Capital Ones.
tvp1n6 l1k3 th15 (typing like this) for example.
this isn't even the worst type of typing quirk I've seen
uh-uh WHAT? genuinely who writes like that? Have you really seen people do that? Who would waste their time writing like that just to waste other people's time?

There's a studio on Scratch where people write like that on a regular basis, but due to naming and shaming being discouraged I don't think I'm allowed to say it by name. Shouldn't be too hard to find though.

Voxalice

Another example I've seen a few times is replacing every “s” with “z”.
It looks cool for the first 10 seconds, but it can slow down reading for much longer than that.

There are also writing styles that don't affect readability too much, like typing in all lowercase.

I wonder where the threshold for an inaccessible typing quirk would lie if this were implemented. Any suggestions?

Last edited by Voxalice (Nov. 15, 2024 23:09:28)

ajskateboarder

scratchcode1_2_3 wrote:
Can you give some examples? Some I can think of are Typing Every Starting Letter Of Every Single World As Capital Ones.

Leetspeak, alternative Unicode characters for English, unrelated emojis before and after text (there's a name for them that I'm definitely missing), etc

Voxalice wrote:
I wonder where the threshold for an inaccessible typing quirk would lie if this were implemented. Any suggestions?

I think the line should be drawn at using leetspeak for an entire post. Adding in a little leetspeak isn't really too bad. And of course, there shouldn't be a big immediate punishment for using text quirks

Last edited by ajskateboarder (Nov. 15, 2024 23:17:47)

Za-Chary

I'm not really sure what counts as a “typing quirk,” or what counts as “too hard to read.” Those seem vague enough that, for certain comments that you would probably find okay, others might believe they are not. Some might consider Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address to be “hard to read,” for example. Others find tone tags to be “typing quirks,” which would be unfortunate if banned because they genuinely help some users communicate. So the reporting reason would need to be more specific than just “quirky typing” or “hard to read.”

ajskateboarder

Za-Chary wrote:
I'm not really sure what counts as a “typing quirk,” or what counts as “too hard to read.” Those seem vague enough that, for certain comments that you would probably find okay, others might believe they are not. Some might consider Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address to be “hard to read,” for example. Others find tone tags to be “typing quirks,” which would be unfortunate if banned because they genuinely help some users communicate. So the reporting reason would need to be more specific than just “quirky typing” or “hard to read.”

There is a clear difference that I believe most Scratchers could notice. Writing in the style of the Gettysburg Address still makes your text readable overall and for people with dyslexia. Using tone tags seldom interferes with translators or screenreaders since they are usually present at the end of the text. Using excessive typing quirks like aforementioned interfere in every regard.

Not quite sure how to put that into simple terms for a report reason though. Maybe something like “Interferes with screen readers, translators, or accessibility” would work?

scratchcode1_2_3

ajskateboarder wrote:
(#9)
Za-Chary wrote:
I'm not really sure what counts as a “typing quirk,” or what counts as “too hard to read.” Those seem vague enough that, for certain comments that you would probably find okay, others might believe they are not. Some might consider Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address to be “hard to read,” for example. Others find tone tags to be “typing quirks,” which would be unfortunate if banned because they genuinely help some users communicate. So the reporting reason would need to be more specific than just “quirky typing” or “hard to read.”
There is a clear difference that I believe most Scratchers could notice. Writing in the style of the Gettysburg Address still makes your text readable overall and for people with dyslexia. Using tone tags seldom interferes with translators or screenreaders since they are usually present at the end of the text. Using excessive typing quirks like aforementioned interfere in every regard.

Not quite sure how to put that into simple terms for a report reason though. Maybe something like “Interferes with screen readers, translators, or accessibility” would work?

YEs ThAt cOulD Be It!!11!1!!1 /hj /srs /li

I personally think that tone tags are helpful and good, so maybe screen readers could adapt to reading them properly.

RL1123

scratchcode1_2_3 wrote:
I personally think that tone tags are helpful and good, so maybe screen readers could adapt to reading them properly.

Maybe you misunderstood

ajskateboarder wrote:
Using tone tags seldom interferes with translators or screenreaders

Honey_Dreamz

I get self-expression, but there's a line where it can just be a headache to read. Maybe including parentheses after something that is typed in a way possibly difficult to read as a sort of translation so that it can be read in normal text would be fine, but without it sometimes comments cannot be deciphered at all.

scratchcode1_2_3

RL1123 wrote:
(#11)
scratchcode1_2_3 wrote:
I personally think that tone tags are helpful and good, so maybe screen readers could adapt to reading them properly.
Maybe you misunderstood
ajskateboarder wrote:
Using tone tags seldom interferes with translators or screenreaders

I just said that maybe, the readers could adapt, as in, change their code and functionality, to be able to read tone tags normally spoken out.

MaRIou-g

Typing quirks can get hard to read but banning something like “Do u want 2 go 2 the store” is very weird because a lot of people talk like that and it's easy to understand. so, I think there needs to be a level of how hard it is to understand for reporting; for example, typing in Leetspeak might be high enough for reporting; Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address might not. anyway, I think they should not be completely banned.

han614698

☆ or starting every message like this

☆ it interferes with screen readers

☆ And ☆ We ☆ Shouldn’t ☆ All ☆ Have ☆ To ☆ Suffer ☆ Because ☆ This ☆ Calms ☆ You /gen

M1mikyu

MaRIou-g wrote:
Typing quirks can get hard to read but banning something like “Do u want 2 go 2 the store” is very weird because a lot of people talk like that and it's easy to understand. so, I think there needs to be a level of how hard it is to understand for reporting; for example, typing in Leetspeak might be high enough for reporting; Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address might not. anyway, I think they should not be completely banned.

I don’t think just replacing to/too/two with 2 or you with u (and so on) is an issue, as it’s just one word. The issue is writing the entire message in leetspeak or other fancy fonts.

Quick abbreviations for a longer word is very different from an entire message being impossible to read due to the “typing quirk”

Last edited by M1mikyu (Nov. 16, 2024 01:26:16)

Honey_Dreamz

han614698 wrote:
☆ or starting every message like this

☆ it interferes with screen readers

☆ And ☆ We ☆ Shouldn’t ☆ All ☆ Have ☆ To ☆ Suffer ☆ Because ☆ This ☆ Calms ☆ You /gen

I feel like you're overreacting a bit over a single symbol in front of a comment…
And how exactly does it interfere with screen readers? To my knowledge, it would just not acknowledge the symbol, which is fine.

Last edited by Honey_Dreamz (Nov. 16, 2024 01:26:30)

han614698

Honey_Dreamz wrote:
han614698 wrote:
☆ or starting every message like this

☆ it interferes with screen readers

☆ And ☆ We ☆ Shouldn’t ☆ All ☆ Have ☆ To ☆ Suffer ☆ Because ☆ This ☆ Calms ☆ You /gen
I feel like you're overreacting a bit over a single symbol in front of a comment…
And how exactly does it interfere with screen readers? To my knowledge, it would just not acknowledge the symbol, which is fine.

“Unicode star symbol [message here]”

And it’s not about you because thankfully no formers type like that

Also it’s just annoying attention seeking behavior to try to be different (yes, I know that’s not the reason…). Literally no point.

Last edited by han614698 (Nov. 16, 2024 01:28:36)

Honey_Dreamz

han614698 wrote:
Honey_Dreamz wrote:
han614698 wrote:
☆ or starting every message like this

☆ it interferes with screen readers

☆ And ☆ We ☆ Shouldn’t ☆ All ☆ Have ☆ To ☆ Suffer ☆ Because ☆ This ☆ Calms ☆ You /gen
I feel like you're overreacting a bit over a single symbol in front of a comment…
And how exactly does it interfere with screen readers? To my knowledge, it would just not acknowledge the symbol, which is fine.
“Unicode star symbol [message here]”

And it’s not about you because thankfully no formers type like that

Ohh, I see. But still, it's really not that big of a deal, is it? I do use a star symbol in front of my comments, but not on the forums. It's just a small thing and I think banning them would be unnecessary.

han614698

Honey_Dreamz wrote:
han614698 wrote:
Honey_Dreamz wrote:
han614698 wrote:
☆ or starting every message like this

☆ it interferes with screen readers

☆ And ☆ We ☆ Shouldn’t ☆ All ☆ Have ☆ To ☆ Suffer ☆ Because ☆ This ☆ Calms ☆ You /gen
I feel like you're overreacting a bit over a single symbol in front of a comment…
And how exactly does it interfere with screen readers? To my knowledge, it would just not acknowledge the symbol, which is fine.
“Unicode star symbol [message here]”

And it’s not about you because thankfully no formers type like that
Ohh, I see. But still, it's really not that big of a deal, is it? I do use a star symbol in front of my comments, but not on the forums. It's just a small thing and I think banning them would be unnecessary.

me wrote:
Also it’s just annoying attention seeking behavior to try to be different (yes, I know that’s not the reason…). Literally no point.

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