Fewest amount of blocks technically needed to use Scratch

Mryellowdoggy

Define ‘needed to use Scratch’. You can make a project using just this block

say []

or no blocks at all and you'd be using Scratch.

blubby4

TheCreatorOfUnTV wrote:
Operators wrote:
<[] = []>
<not <>>
<<> and <>>
(() + ())

I'm not sure how you're going to do greater/less than, but you can replace the

<[] = []>

with

<[] > []>

and create

<[] = []>

by doing

<<not <(a) > (b)>> and <not <(b) > (a)>>>

instead.

BigNate469

blubby4 wrote:
snip

And you can replace both of those with a NOT operator. In fact, everything a computer does can be replicated- with NOT operators, since all logic gates can be created out of NOT operators (and that includes OR). Since it's possible to store data using just logic gates (like how DRAM works if I remember correctly), you can replicate an entire computer using NOT gates.

TheCreatorOfUnTV

BigNate469 wrote:
blubby4 wrote:
snip
And you can replace both of those with a NOT operator. In fact, everything a computer does can be replicated- with NOT operators, since all logic gates can be created out of NOT operators (and that includes OR). Since it's possible to store data using just logic gates (like how DRAM works if I remember correctly), you can replicate an entire computer using NOT gates.

Replaced both the NOT and AND gates since you could do this for NOT:

<<boolean :: grey> = [false]>

and this for AND:

<(<boolean 1 :: grey> + <boolean 2 :: grey>) = [2]>

Last edited by TheCreatorOfUnTV (Sept. 9, 2024 23:38:30)

blubby4

BigNate469 wrote:
blubby4 wrote:
snip
And you can replace both of those with a NOT operator. In fact, everything a computer does can be replicated- with NOT operators, since all logic gates can be created out of NOT operators (and that includes OR). Since it's possible to store data using just logic gates (like how DRAM works if I remember correctly), you can replicate an entire computer using NOT gates.

You mean NOR or(If we're talking about logic, then xor) NAND. NOT only takes 1 input.

Last edited by blubby4 (Sept. 10, 2024 00:07:31)

BigNate469

blubby4 wrote:
BigNate469 wrote:
blubby4 wrote:
snip
And you can replace both of those with a NOT operator. In fact, everything a computer does can be replicated- with NOT operators, since all logic gates can be created out of NOT operators (and that includes OR). Since it's possible to store data using just logic gates (like how DRAM works if I remember correctly), you can replicate an entire computer using NOT gates.
You mean NOR or NAND. NOT only takes 1 input.

Yeah actually I guess you would need an OR.

Jonathan50

Mryellowdoggy wrote:
Define ‘needed to use Scratch’. You can make a project using just this block
say []
or no blocks at all and you'd be using Scratch.

The first post explains

blubby4

BigNate469 wrote:
blubby4 wrote:
BigNate469 wrote:
blubby4 wrote:
snip
And you can replace both of those with a NOT operator. In fact, everything a computer does can be replicated- with NOT operators, since all logic gates can be created out of NOT operators (and that includes OR). Since it's possible to store data using just logic gates (like how DRAM works if I remember correctly), you can replicate an entire computer using NOT gates.
You mean NOR or NAND. NOT only takes 1 input.
Yeah actually I guess you would need an OR.

NOR/NAND are both considered single gates. (Oh, also, DRAM uses capacitors to store data, and has been phased out by SRAM, which is likely what you were thinking of

Last edited by blubby4 (Sept. 10, 2024 00:33:35)

BigNate469

blubby4 wrote:
NOR/NAND are both considered single gates. (Oh, also, DRAM uses capacitors to store data, and has been phased out by SRAM, which is likely what you were thinking of

But only because they're simple, not because they are the most basic of them. Both are created using a series of transistors (which themselves are essentially AND gates themselves).

Using OR and NOT, you can do

<not <<not <>> or <not <>>>>

which is an AND gate.

han614698

Mryellowdoggy wrote:
(#441)
Define ‘needed to use Scratch’. You can make a project using just this block
say []
or no blocks at all and you'd be using Scratch.

The basic idea is that most blocks are workaroundable. So the question is, how many blocks can you remove but still have Scratch 100% functional?

blubby4

BigNate469 wrote:
blubby4 wrote:
NOR/NAND are both considered single gates. (Oh, also, DRAM uses capacitors to store data, and has been phased out by SRAM, which is likely what you were thinking of
But only because they're simple, not because they are the most basic of them. Both are created using a series of transistors (which themselves are essentially AND gates themselves).

Using OR and NOT, you can do
<not <<not <>> or <not <>>>>
which is an AND gate.

[pedantic]
NOR and NAND are universal logic gates, them along with AND, OR, XOR, XNOR (and NOT) are all basic logic gates. Transistors aren't logic gates, but they can recreate the basic logic gates. I guess most chips would make their own weird gates with transistors, because it would be faster/cheaper/less noisy than adhering to only the basic gates.

Some more info about stuff:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_gate#Universal_logic_gates
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Morgan%27s_laws
[/pedantic]

Anyway, we're turning this into an advanced off-topic or maybe I am

Last edited by blubby4 (Sept. 10, 2024 01:09:56)

TheCreatorOfUnTV

Bump

TheCreatorOfUnTV

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8to16

for a simple clicker the only necessary blocks would be:

when this sprite clicked
change [ v] by (1)

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