o97doge wrote:

nieh444 wrote:

(#39)
-snip-
man, look what i said, Search up and use a music finder. you can find those when searching up that.

Not everyone has a phone.

same with pc. i was referring to search engines.

nieh444 wrote:

(#39)

sharkode wrote:

nieh444 wrote:

(#36)

sharkode wrote:

nieh444 wrote:

(#32)
Bad idea, how else do the moderators find the music? Yeah sure, you could give the name but a link is quicker.
And even if you dont know the name, just use a tool like shazam.

Most people have no idea what shazam is, maybe the moderators can use it instead? Also, if the person literally ADMITS to stealing music then I think there is enough evidence to remove the project

Yeah, good point.
Maybe a note when reporting it saying “If you don't know the name, search up and use a music finder.” That might be a bad idea, but I don't really know.

Not everybody have music finder, ST should install such apps themselves if they are trying to moderate a website

man, look what i said, Search up and use a music finder. you can find those when searching up that.

ST can do that themselves, most people can't be bothered and will just give up reporting the content

sharkode wrote:

nieh444 wrote:

(#39)

sharkode wrote:

nieh444 wrote:

(#36)

sharkode wrote:

nieh444 wrote:

(#32)
Bad idea, how else do the moderators find the music? Yeah sure, you could give the name but a link is quicker.
And even if you dont know the name, just use a tool like shazam.

Most people have no idea what shazam is, maybe the moderators can use it instead? Also, if the person literally ADMITS to stealing music then I think there is enough evidence to remove the project

Yeah, good point.
Maybe a note when reporting it saying “If you don't know the name, search up and use a music finder.” That might be a bad idea, but I don't really know.

Not everybody have music finder, ST should install such apps themselves if they are trying to moderate a website

man, look what i said, Search up and use a music finder. you can find those when searching up that.

ST can do that themselves, most people can't be bothered and will just give up reporting the content

Alright, makes sense. dont think they should remove using links entirely but maybe they should let you say that you dont know the name in notes.

nieh444 wrote:

(#43)

sharkode wrote:

nieh444 wrote:

(#39)

sharkode wrote:

nieh444 wrote:

(#36)

sharkode wrote:

nieh444 wrote:

(#32)
Bad idea, how else do the moderators find the music? Yeah sure, you could give the name but a link is quicker.
And even if you dont know the name, just use a tool like shazam.

Most people have no idea what shazam is, maybe the moderators can use it instead? Also, if the person literally ADMITS to stealing music then I think there is enough evidence to remove the project

Yeah, good point.
Maybe a note when reporting it saying “If you don't know the name, search up and use a music finder.” That might be a bad idea, but I don't really know.

Not everybody have music finder, ST should install such apps themselves if they are trying to moderate a website

man, look what i said, Search up and use a music finder. you can find those when searching up that.

ST can do that themselves, most people can't be bothered and will just give up reporting the content

Alright, makes sense. dont think they should remove using links entirely but maybe they should let you say that you dont know the name in notes.

I never said they should remove using using links entirely, I just want them to get rid of this “no link no removal” policy, so links would still be encouraged, but they should still act if you don't give a link

I'm not a fan of the claim that the Scratch Team needs to do extra work to find the source of the stolen music themselves (e.g. through Shazam). Considering the amount of reports that they receive each day, it is up to the Scratcher to make the report as clear and easy as possible to convey to the Scratch Team what the issue is. If the Scratch Team uses Shazam continually, that will just make it take longer for them to sort through reports (especially since Shazam is not always accurate or complete).

The burden of proof lies on the prosecution (i.e. the reporter).

I agree, its fine if you use the music on a project, unless its music related. Though this might lead to more reporting

anti support, scratch has almost never deleted projects with stolen music and if they were to start doing that actual millions of projects would get deleted and never restored

Za-Chary wrote:

(#45)
I'm not a fan of the claim that the Scratch Team needs to do extra work to find the source of the stolen music themselves (e.g. through Shazam). Considering the amount of reports that they receive each day, it is up to the Scratcher to make the report as clear and easy as possible to convey to the Scratch Team what the issue is. If the Scratch Team uses Shazam continually, that will just make it take longer for them to sort through reports (especially since Shazam is not always accurate or complete).

The burden of proof lies on the prosecution (i.e. the reporter).

As I said, the vast majority of people do not know what Shazam is, and most people will just give up trying to report something if it's that difficult, because it does not really care, ST shouldn't make it too hard to report things if they are the ones trying to moderate the website

sharkode wrote:

As I said, the vast majority of people do not know what Shazam is,

Are you sure that Scratch Team members know what it is?

sharkode wrote:

and most people will just give up trying to report something if it's that difficult, because it does not really care,

It's always up to the specific Scratcher to determine whether or not it's worth reporting projects with a clear and sufficient reason as to why the project is being reported.

sharkode wrote:

ST shouldn't make it too hard to report things if they are the ones trying to moderate the website

I don't think they're “making” it hard, per se. If a Scratcher knows where the original music comes from, it is easy to report the project accordingly.

sharkode wrote:

ST can do that themselves, most people can't be bothered and will just give up reporting the content

yes because st definitely doesnt have hundreds of reports to manage every single day already
this will take more time from them then it would from you

like js use shazam or smth

Za-Chary wrote:

(#49)

sharkode wrote:

As I said, the vast majority of people do not know what Shazam is,

Are you sure that Scratch Team members know what it is?

They probably don't, but neither does the vast majority of people on this website, but it's a lot easier to teach 15 people than millions of people how to use the tool

Za-Chary wrote:

sharkode wrote:

and most people will just give up trying to report something if it's that difficult, because it does not really care,

It's always up to the specific Scratcher to determine whether or not it's worth reporting projects with a clear and sufficient reason as to why the project is being reported.

What do you mean by “whether or not it's worth reporting”? If it breaks the rules I report, if it doesn't then I don't, if the person literally said “credits to all” or “music: not me” then I think it is sufficient reason.

Za-Chary wrote:

sharkode wrote:

ST shouldn't make it too hard to report things if they are the ones trying to moderate the website

I don't think they're “making” it hard, per se.

They aren't making it hard but it could certainly be made a lot easier, and they aren't doing that.

Za-Chary wrote:

If a Scratcher knows where the original music comes from, it is easy to report the project accordingly.

Yeah but it would be difficult if they don't know

starlightsparker wrote:

(#50)

sharkode wrote:

ST can do that themselves, most people can't be bothered and will just give up reporting the content

yes because st definitely doesnt have hundreds of reports to manage every single day already
this will take more time from them then it would from you

like js use shazam or smth

As I said, most people can't be bothered to use Shazam or whatever it is, I'm not going to waste my time on reporting someone because I don't care if someone breaks CG because it's not my website, and if a report takes more than a couple of clicks, I'm not doing it.

It's literally ST's job to moderate the website and not the community's, so they should be the ones doing the work, not whoever is reporting, also they can streamline the process so it would take way shorter than individuals reporting the content.

sharkode wrote:

As I said, most people can't be bothered to use Shazam or whatever it is, I'm not going to waste my time on reporting someone because I don't care if someone breaks CG because it's not my website, and if a report takes more than a couple of clicks, I'm not doing it.

It's literally ST's job to moderate the website and not the community's, so they should be the ones doing the work, not whoever is reporting, also they can streamline the process so it would take way shorter than individuals reporting the content.

This is like saying “I'm going to throw my trash on the ground at school because it's literally the school janitor's job to clean up messes, so they should be the ones doing the work, I'm not going to waste my time going to a trash can to throw things away because I don't care if there's trash on the ground because it's not my house.”

An update about the Shazam comments: last night I attempted to use Shazam on two pieces of music and Shazam couldn't recognize either of them. Shazam is great for “pop music,” but a significant amount of music is not pop music. If someone reports a project for not giving sufficient credit, using music which is “clearly” not their own creation, and the Scratch Team attempts to use Shazam to figure out its origins and cannot find it, then what are they supposed to do? Do they keep searching or do they just ignore the report? But both of those options have problems, some of which you have already mentioned earlier in this thread.

Scratchers already complain about how long it takes for reports to get taken care of. Yes, it is the Scratch Team's job to moderate the website, but we as Scratchers can help make that process easier by searching for the correct proof ourselves; much like how it's the school janitor's job to clean up messes, but students can make the janitor's job easier by not intentionally making messes.

The burden of proof lies on the prosecution (i.e. the reporter).

Za-Chary wrote:

(#53)

sharkode wrote:

As I said, most people can't be bothered to use Shazam or whatever it is, I'm not going to waste my time on reporting someone because I don't care if someone breaks CG because it's not my website, and if a report takes more than a couple of clicks, I'm not doing it.

It's literally ST's job to moderate the website and not the community's, so they should be the ones doing the work, not whoever is reporting, also they can streamline the process so it would take way shorter than individuals reporting the content.

This is like saying “I'm going to throw my trash on the ground at school because it's literally the school janitor's job to clean up messes, so they should be the ones doing the work, I'm not going to waste my time going to a trash can to throw things away because I don't care if there's trash on the ground because it's not my house.”

This is a pretty bad comparison because I didn't break CG so it's not like I'm the one littering, this would be like reporting other students for littering and the school asks you to fill out tons of forms and asks you to provide video evidence when they have CCTV cameras themselves, most people simply don't care enough when it's not their house and would just not report people for littering if it gets this difficult. The school officials generally cares about the school being clean more than the students so they should be the ones doing the investigation, not the students themselves.

sharkode wrote:

This is a pretty bad comparison because I didn't break CG so it's not like I'm the one littering, this would be like reporting other students for littering and the school asks you to fill out tons of forms

It's not “tons of forms,” it's one singular text box that only asks you for the name of the original song and/or a link to the original content. That's pretty reasonable.

sharkode wrote:

and asks you to provide video evidence when they have CCTV cameras themselves,

You are not required to submit the equivalent of video evidence to report someone. The Scratch Team also does not have the equivalent of CCTV cameras — there is no way to be able to tell immediately how a particular user obtained the music that they used.

sharkode wrote:

most people simply don't care enough when it's not their house and would just not report people for littering if it gets this difficult.

That doesn't make littering any more acceptable.

sharkode wrote:

The school officials generally cares about the school being clean more than the students so they should be the ones doing the investigation, not the students themselves.

If you don't care, then why are you reporting the projects in the first place?

Za-Chary wrote:

(#55)

sharkode wrote:

This is a pretty bad comparison because I didn't break CG so it's not like I'm the one littering, this would be like reporting other students for littering and the school asks you to fill out tons of forms

It's not “tons of forms,” it's one singular text box that only asks you for the name of the original song and/or a link to the original content. That's pretty reasonable.

But the issue is I can't find the original song, and as you have said yourself, Shazam is pretty bad at recognising songs. So finding the music would still take tons of time.

Za-Chary wrote:

sharkode wrote:

and asks you to provide video evidence when they have CCTV cameras themselves,

You are not required to submit the equivalent of video evidence to report someone. The Scratch Team also does not have the equivalent of CCTV cameras — there is no way to be able to tell immediately how a particular user obtained the music that they used.

Ok this point is somewhat valid, but I think ST can install CCTV cameras (more advanced paid software that recognises music) so it would be much easier for them to find the source and not have to rely on people to guess the name of the song

Za-Chary wrote:

sharkode wrote:

most people simply don't care enough when it's not their house and would just not report people for littering if it gets this difficult.

That doesn't make littering any more acceptable.

I agree, littering (stealing music) is never acceptable, but as I said in the previous post, a better analogy for reporting stealing music is like reporting people for littering, and if it gets too difficult I can completely understand not reporting people for littering.

Za-Chary wrote:

sharkode wrote:

The school officials generally cares about the school being clean more than the students so they should be the ones doing the investigation, not the students themselves.

If you don't care, then why are you reporting the projects in the first place?

Same reason as why I would report people for littering, I'm reporting it because I still do care, but not to the point where I would spend an hour of my life trying to guess the name of the music

sharkode wrote:

But the issue is I can't find the original song, and as you have said yourself, Shazam is pretty bad at recognising songs. So finding the music would still take tons of time.

If it's hard to Shazam as a Scratcher to report a project, why would it be any easier for the Scratch Team to use it to find the original music?

sharkode wrote:

Ok this point is somewhat valid, but I think ST can install CCTV cameras (more advanced paid software that recognises music) so it would be much easier for them to find the source and not have to rely on people to guess the name of the song

Clever, although we're probably a long time away from that happening, due to costs and imperfections of existing software. This would probably fit best as a separate suggestion.