Do not add AI art to Scratch

Za-Chary

Strictly speaking, the Scratch Team never said that “they are considering adding AI image generation to Scratch.” All they said is that they are “exploring” it — that says nothing about adding it to Scratch.

The user who made that Tweet also wrote an article about AI image generation in Scratch: https://medium.com/scratchteam-blog/inside-scratch-lab-ai-image-generation-179f11bd921a

It's a very good article. I recommend that anybody should read it.

But to summarize, the article lists many benefits of AI image generation, including the obvious such as experimentation, convenience, and creativity. But there are also many problems with AI image generation, which the article itself recognizes:

Bias: “If you ask our prototype for a picture of a computer programmer, it only produces images of white men. We want kids using Scratch to be able to imagine themselves in whatever role they choose, regardless of their own race, gender, culture or other identity.”
Inappropriate content: The Scratch Team's prototype for Scratch AI is imperfect, sometimes generating nudity or violent content. This stems from DALL·E, the text-to-image model that the Scratch Team uses, having different standards for inappropriate content from the Scratch Community Guidelines.
Credit, Compensation and Copyright: "AI tools are created using millions of images, generally without the consent of the original authors of those images, and without credit or compensation. Their legal status is unclear, since most are created using copyrighted images. […] we place a high value on giving credit to the original creators."
Cost, Access and Privacy: AI image generation at this time is not free, which is counter to the Scratch Team's goals of making Scratch free for everybody. It's also only available online, so those who want to use the offline editor cannot access it.
Getting the Image You Want: Basically, the AI isn't perfect itself, and might not get you an image that you ask for.
Weirdness: Another point that AI isn't perfect; it sometimes generates distorted faces and gibberish text.

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So the Scratch Team is already aware of the many problems with using AI image generation as part of Scratch — none of which are problems that you stated. In fact, the Scratch Team seems to believe the opposite of what you list to be a problem — more possibilities are made using AI art, and the article explains how AI image generation can actually create more imagination. And besides, you do have to “imagine” something in order to tell the AI what art you want in the first place.

Not to mention that trying to force users to draw their own sprites can also limit their imagination. Many users can't draw, and I don't think asking them to follow drawing tutorials is the right solution. Scratch is a programming language, so it would be great if users could get started on the programming concepts as soon as possible while using sprites that they are happy with; AI image generation (and using Google Images) can help with that. Things like AI image generation can also get users started with ideas (as the article states). We already have plenty of users saying that they “don't have ideas for projects” or “need motivation to make projects” — I think AI image generation can help with that.

Nevertheless, the article does continue to say this:

ericr wrote:
Because of the many challenges with AI image generation, we won’t be including it in Scratch any time soon, even on our Scratch Lab site. The Scratch Lab team will continue to keep an eye on progress in this area, as we tinker with it to help us understand the possibilities.

So I'd say your suggestion is already implemented, in a sense: the Scratch Team, at this time, is not considering adding AI image generation to Scratch. My guess as to why the Tweet was made in the first place is just to showcase the possibility of AI image generation within Scratch, and to showcase how cool it can be.

(And let's be honest, if AI were perfect and all the aforementioned problems were sorted out, AI image generation in Scratch would indeed be pretty cool.)

hydrofungus

Hey Za-Chary, the link to the ST blog doesn’t work for me, it says that the server can’t be found-

Zydrolic

Za-Chary wrote:
-snip-

in a nutshell, all of us in this thread forgot to read the blog post and thought it summarized “yez we add” until you corrected it

dang.

edit: im never posting before reading a blog post ever again if one is contained in it

Last edited by Zydrolic (Aug. 26, 2023 12:53:14)

Zydrolic

hydrofungus wrote:
Hey Za-Chary, the link to the ST blog doesn’t work for me, it says that the server can’t be found-

heres a vid of demonstration incase thats what you want, otherwise not much can be done — it might be unavailable in your region or etc.
right here

I-Forgot-My-Pasword

I see two sides to this.

One side is you have to put in a lot less work. You don't have to make art, just generate it. It also depromotes asking others to make art, and you could claim the AI art is yours, and just boom free popularity.

On the other side, it promotes creativity and lets you put more time into programming. It allows you to actually generate what you want if you try hard enough, and is quick. You also don't waste time of others who make you art if you don't like the result.

hydrofungus

Zydrolic wrote:
-snip-

Nahh I tried to see the blog post but somehow safari can’t find that website’s server

Za-Chary wrote:
-snip-

Seems like, the article sums AI up very well.
The most worrying part about AI art is inappropriateness. Usually, AI would usually show pictures of anime girls (even you only said the name of a famous singer or something) and it usually show unnecessary large breasts which is definitely inappropriate for Scratch.
Using AI might be also frustrating, with it almost always showing the wrong picture and distorted faces and other parts.

Imagining a picture you want might be great for your imagination, yes, while drawing it does kinda decrease your imagination at that moment because you realize you can’t draw this picture that picture
But I also worry about how artists on Scratch would react to this information. Just look at some artists’ profiles. You’ll probably see “Stop AI “art””, or the artist in a studio saying that. They call AI art “a disgrace to the art community”, and I gotta say, they aren’t really wrong.

WestMarvel10

AI is in minecraft

Last edited by WestMarvel10 (Aug. 26, 2023 13:24:33)

hydrofungus

WestMarvel10 wrote:
AI Is In Minecraft

So…?
And please don’t capitalize every word makes it hard to read ngl

ugh the 60 second monster

Zydrolic

hydrofungus wrote:
(#26)
while drawing it does kinda decrease your imagination at that moment because you realize you can’t draw this picture that picture

i'm gonna have to stop you right dang there and ignore the other points for a lifetime because this is not actually really true.

Your imagination isn't decreased from a drawing.

Look at UNDERTALE for example, freaking billions of alternative timelines by enjoyers of it. Just because you are using the art does not mean you are not being creative or unimaginatory and I seriously want to stop hearing this.

By that logic, any project using someone else's art or pixelart could be taken as decreasing imagination because you cannot draw it — No exclusions on that, either.

EDIT: Now of course, artists may be mad. But still yet, creativity and imagination isn't decreased from an image.

Last edited by Zydrolic (Aug. 26, 2023 13:12:12)

hydrofungus

Zydrolic wrote:
-snip-

Uh no, I mean like an imagination spike or something, like you suddenly have this very great idea, try to draw it out, but you (for example) don’t know how to draw a hand, feet and some other stuff, all that imagination you just got is pretty much gone unless you’re very determined or something.

Zydrolic

hydrofungus wrote:
(#30)
-snip

determination matters as time is a virtue, without determination a person would be most likely nowhere.

i have nothing else to say as i misunderstood your original point.

ajskateboarder

hydrofungus wrote:
To me, AI is something that does oppose creativity. You just enter a word then the generator will give you thousands of the image of the word. You don’t even have to use your imagination at all.

I'm sure making an AI prompt requires imagination too, right?

TerryLeeStudio wrote:
Don’t see harm in this, scratch is primarily a programming tool. Even if some part of scratch programming can be automated by ai, it’s fine.

Yeah, and any Scratcher could already use art from DALL-E and all those other art generators (given the art is appropriate). This doesn't make the issues regarding AI art any worse

hydrofungus

ajskateboarder wrote:
hydrofungus wrote:
To me, AI is something that does oppose creativity. You just enter a word then the generator will give you thousands of the image of the word. You don’t even have to use your imagination at all.
I'm sure making an AI prompt requires imagination too, right?

Uhh don’t mind my younger self I’m older now /j
Sure, you do need a bit of imagination to try to make a prompt that doesn’t result in a wrong or weird picture, but sometimes:
“Apple”
AI: gives apple image
“Yes now I can use this in my project”

MythosLore

hydrofungus wrote:
ajskateboarder wrote:
hydrofungus wrote:
To me, AI is something that does oppose creativity. You just enter a word then the generator will give you thousands of the image of the word. You don’t even have to use your imagination at all.
I'm sure making an AI prompt requires imagination too, right?
Uhh don’t mind my younger self I’m older now /j
Sure, you do need a bit of imagination to try to make a prompt that doesn’t result in a wrong or weird picture, but sometimes:
“Apple”
AI: gives apple image
“Yes now I can use this in my project”

I mean, they also have an entire sprite library.

Crispydogs101

Post looks fake. Is that even a real st member?

ImmortalJelly13

as a pixel artist who cant draw anything else I would love this to be added lol

Za-Chary

Crispydogs101 wrote:
Post looks fake. Is that even a real st member?

We have already established that the post is real.

ImmortalJelly13

I wouldn't mind someone writing a TL;DR for the article

Zydrolic

ImmortalJelly13 wrote:
I wouldn't mind someone writing a TL;DR for the article

welp, here i go:
tl;dr: we are experimenting with ai art (not adding to lab or scrath tho)
edit: grammer

Last edited by Zydrolic (Aug. 26, 2023 15:21:14)

ajskateboarder

Crispydogs101 wrote:
Post looks fake. Is that even a real st member?

Yes

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