More Readable Operator Blocks (Enlarged Symbols)

_TotallyNotAnApple_

+1

It would REALLY help for this to be added. Sometimes I literally have to check which symbol is which.

edit (offtopic): kotp lets go

Last edited by _TotallyNotAnApple_ (July 25, 2023 20:03:34)

ajskateboarder

Scratch137 wrote:
Gamer_Logan819 wrote:
(#14)
Semi-support. I get visual accessibility yeah yeah but it looks kinda ugly, no offense.
I think the mockup is more of an idea of what it could look like. It doesn't have to look exactly like this.

Yeah, that's usually what a mockup is after all

Support, although this should be optional (similar to high contrast mode in the editor)

mumu245

Semi-support. I like the idea, but not this way. They should ideally still be text. And I'd keep the asterisk, as it's used in other programming languages. Remember, Scratch is for teaching programming! Here is my idea with Unicode:

(() ＋ () ::operators)
(() － () ::operators)
(() ＊ () ::operators)
(() ／ () ::operators)

These are called fullwidth forms, a set of larger versions of default characters. As a bonus, they are all the same size.

Basilikos

This actually looks really good. Especially since the asterisk looks like a dot in our current version.

mumu245 wrote:
Scratch is for teaching programming

Only on paper though. It can't really teach any programming other than give the idea of it.

Kessel_Run

Support! ST should implement this as part of the accessibility update.

One_is_fun

Along with that, there could be round brackets showing nested operators! Great idea!

TehCritic

If it’s an option, I’m all about it! Support!

mumu245

mumu245 wrote:
Semi-support. I like the idea, but not this way. They should ideally still be text. And I'd keep the asterisk, as it's used in other programming languages. Remember, Scratch is for teaching programming! Here is my idea with Unicode:
(() ＋ () ::operators)
(() － () ::operators)
(() ＊ () ::operators)
(() ／ () ::operators)
These are called fullwidth forms, a set of larger versions of default characters. As a bonus, they are all the same size.

What about these? I feel like having vector images instead of text would be much more inconsistent.

One_is_fun wrote:
Along with that, there could be round brackets showing nested operators! Great idea!

They could just add zebra striping like in Snap! where nested blocks are of a darker colour.

wheelsonfire

Are there unicode symbols we could use for this? It would be way simpler to change if the symbols can just be characters, rather than new vector images!

ToastRoastBoast

wheelsonfire wrote:
Are there unicode symbols we could use for this? It would be way simpler to change if the symbols can just be characters, rather than new vector images!

Spentinium wrote:

(() ╋ () :: operators)
(() ━ () :: operators)
(() ╳ () :: operators)
(() ╱ () :: operators)

i found this as unicode

mumu245

wheelsonfire wrote:
Are there unicode symbols we could use for this? It would be way simpler to change if the symbols can just be characters, rather than new vector images!

mumu245 wrote:
Semi-support. I like the idea, but not this way. They should ideally still be text. And I'd keep the asterisk, as it's used in other programming languages. Remember, Scratch is for teaching programming! Here is my idea with Unicode:
(() ＋ () ::operators)
(() － () ::operators)
(() ＊ () ::operators)
(() ／ () ::operators)
These are called fullwidth forms, a set of larger versions of default characters. As a bonus, they are all the same size.

These should look large. I kept the asterisk as I believe it makes more sense for programming and is easier to distinguish

ToastRoastBoast

bump

papipupepappa

wheelsonfire wrote:
Are there unicode symbols we could use for this? It would be way simpler to change if the symbols can just be characters, rather than new vector images!

Good point! I'm open to anything that increases the legibility, and there are a couple of interesting Unicode suggestions already:

In Spentinium's suggestion, the symbols are easy to tell apart, but the inconsistent character widths are problematic, and the plus symbol isn't right.

In mumu245's suggestion, the character widths and symbol sizes are consistent, but the plus symbol and multiplication symbol are still difficult to tell apart for me. Replacing the asterisk with a cross symbol makes it much more legible to me:

(() ＋ () ::operators)
(() － () ::operators)
(() ⨉ () ::operators)
(() ／ () ::operators)

Thanks everyone for all the support and great feedback!

mumu245

Variant with an asterisk:

(() ＋ () ::operators)
(() － () ::operators)
(() ＊ () ::operators)
(() ／ () ::operators)

Variant with a dot (not aligned since it's the only dot available):

(() ＋ () ::operators)
(() － () ::operators)
(() ⋅ () ::operators)
(() ／ () ::operators)

Variant with a cross (not aligned since it's the only cross available):

(() ＋ () ::operators)
(() － () ::operators)
(() × () ::operators)
(() ／ () ::operators)

I should also note that the asterisk looks easier to distinguish for me. When quickly looking I often confuse the cross with the plus.

Last edited by mumu245 (Aug. 7, 2023 13:09:27)

papipupepappa

Here is a list of relevant Unicode symbols:

Plus sign

U+002B + PLUS
U+FF0B ＋ FULL-WIDTH PLUS (my recommendation)

Minus sign

U+2212 − MINUS
U+002D - HYPHEN-MINUS
U+FE63 ﹣ SMALL HYPHEN-MINUS
U+FF0D － FULL-WIDTH HYPHEN-MINUS (my recommendation)

Multiplication sign

U+00D7 × MULTIPLICATION SIGN
U+002A * ASTERISK
U+FF0A ＊ FULL-WIDTH ASTERISK (mumu245's recommendation)
U+00B7 · MIDDLE DOT
U+22C5 ⋅ DOT OPERATOR
U+2715 ✕ MULTIPLICATION X (my recommendation)
U+2716 ✖ HEAVY MULTIPLICATION X
U+2A09 ⨉ N-ARY TIMES OPERATOR
U+2A2F ⨯ VECTOR OR CROSS PRODUCT

Division sign

U+00F7 ÷ DIVISION SIGN
U+002F / SOLIDUS
U+2044 ⁄ FRACTION SLASH
U+2215 ∕ DIVISION SLASH
U+2571 ╱ BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT DIAGONAL UPPER RIGHT TO LOWER LEFT
U+29F8 ⧸ BIG SOLIDUS
U+FF0F ／ FULL-WIDTH SOLIDUS (my recommendation)

Sources:

- - -

Edited Aug 9, 2023: Added full-width asterisk as per mumu245's request.

Last edited by papipupepappa (Aug. 9, 2023 13:20:47)

VedanshS933

papipupepappa wrote:
Here is a list of relevant Unicode symbols:

Plus sign
U+002B + PLUS
U+FF0B ＋ FULL-WIDTH PLUS (my recommendation)
Minus sign
U+2212 − MINUS
U+002D - HYPHEN-MINUS
U+FE63 ﹣ SMALL HYPHEN-MINUS
U+FF0D － FULL-WIDTH HYPHEN-MINUS (my recommendation)
Multiplication sign
U+00D7 × MULTIPLICATION SIGN
U+002A * ASTERISK
U+00B7 · MIDDLE DOT
U+22C5 ⋅ DOT OPERATOR
U+2715 ✕ MULTIPLICATION X (my recommendation)
U+2716 ✖ HEAVY MULTIPLICATION X
U+2A09 ⨉ N-ARY TIMES OPERATOR
U+2A2F ⨯ VECTOR OR CROSS PRODUCT
Division sign
U+00F7 ÷ DIVISION SIGN
U+002F / SOLIDUS
U+2044 ⁄ FRACTION SLASH
U+2215 ∕ DIVISION SLASH
U+2571 ╱ BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT DIAGONAL UPPER RIGHT TO LOWER LEFT
U+29F8 ⧸ BIG SOLIDUS
U+FF0F ／ FULLWIDTH SOLIDUS (my recommendation)

Sources:
Plus and minus signs
Multiplication sign
Division sign
Slash (punctuation)

That looks nice…

mumu245

papipupepappa wrote:
Here is a list of relevant Unicode symbols:

Plus sign
U+002B + PLUS
U+FF0B ＋ FULL-WIDTH PLUS (my recommendation)
Minus sign
U+2212 − MINUS
U+002D - HYPHEN-MINUS
U+FE63 ﹣ SMALL HYPHEN-MINUS
U+FF0D － FULL-WIDTH HYPHEN-MINUS (my recommendation)
Multiplication sign
U+00D7 × MULTIPLICATION SIGN
U+002A * ASTERISK
U+00B7 · MIDDLE DOT
U+22C5 ⋅ DOT OPERATOR
U+2715 ✕ MULTIPLICATION X (my recommendation)
U+2716 ✖ HEAVY MULTIPLICATION X
U+2A09 ⨉ N-ARY TIMES OPERATOR
U+2A2F ⨯ VECTOR OR CROSS PRODUCT
Division sign
U+00F7 ÷ DIVISION SIGN
U+002F / SOLIDUS
U+2044 ⁄ FRACTION SLASH
U+2215 ∕ DIVISION SLASH
U+2571 ╱ BOX DRAWINGS LIGHT DIAGONAL UPPER RIGHT TO LOWER LEFT
U+29F8 ⧸ BIG SOLIDUS
U+FF0F ／ FULLWIDTH SOLIDUS (my recommendation)

Sources:
Plus and minus signs
Multiplication sign
Division sign
Slash (punctuation)

Add the full-width asterisk, please.

BendyOl183

I support this idea to be added! The enlarged symbols in the mockup look a little bit weird, however it's definitely alot clearer. I mean, when I first joined scratch, I had literally no idea the “*” symbol was meant to be multiplication and I bet quite a few people have done the same, so it would be alot easier for people to understand if it was an “X”.

Maybe it could be in the editor settings tab with the colour contrast feature since some people could find the massive symbols a bit ugly, considering the font is different from the font used on the rest of the blocks.

papipupepappa

mumu245 wrote:
Add the full-width asterisk, please.

Done!

glitcX

Also make the symbols THICKER than the mockup to match regular text more. Support

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