--Explosion-- wrote:

Sorry but no support. Due to the recent pandemic, there has been SO much activity on scratch that if we all waited 24 hours to bump our topic it could be on the 5th page already, even more for forums like Requests and Collaborations.

I agree, sorry.

bump :D

I think that this would be smart, but it'd depend on which forum it's in. So many shops in the requests forum are getting bumped, i think it should be either lessended or increased, depending people's opinions

No support, I disagree with this - topics are overlooked on both, not when they are together.

han614698 wrote:

No support, I disagree with this - topics are overlooked on both, not when they are together.

huh?
overlooked on both what?

This has to be only in certain forums if implemented, as in forums like SaT people mainly just bump. It makes sense in HwS (as ideally people help and bump through that), but not in SaT… Also what about Suggestions?

One of the lesser-known Za-Chary topics of All Time.

I can see a few problems with this.

First of all, this could cause what could be called “forum traffic”. For instance, on an April Fools' Day topic, say someone wanted to bump up the topic to avoid having their topic closed. After not-so-thoroughly writing a bump to bring up their topic, they would try to post their bump, but it would keep saying:

This topic is still on the first page, and it's been <hours> since the last bump. Please bump your topic after 24 hours and if it's not on the first page.

After 24 hours, the user goes to bump their topic, only for it to be closed. See what I mean?

Second, this hardly seems fair. What if I wanted to bump a topic, only for it to remind me to bump topics only if it's been 24 hours since the last bump, and only if it's not on the first page? (In this example, it's on the second page, but you get my point…)

Finally, could you please change your post, @Za-Chary, please? You're no longer a Scratch Team member, which makes this feel almost outdated.

My solution is to ignore new posts (or at least short ones) unless the criteria has been meet. Or make the first pages be a random selection of topics with new posts within 24 hours.

k0d3rrr wrote:

-snip-

This suggestion is intended less to be a “rule” or a “feature,” and more of a “social norm.” For example, currently there are no restrictions in place with bumping (although you could likely be alerted for spamming if you bump continuously every 5 minutes). Read this post for more information: https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/406613/?page=1#post-4043850

That is, I'm not suggesting that the forums automatically prohibit you from posting a new bump. I'm just suggesting that we all collectively agree to, and encourage others to, adhere to new bumping rules (only bump if it's been 24 hours and the topic is not on the first page).

Thus, if we make this a “social norm,” then the problems you outline would not happen — no reminders would exist. However, I would encourage you anyway to not bump topics unless it's been 24 hours and the topic is not on the first page. While there is no “rule” currently in place against bumping a topic that was last posted on 16 hours ago (with it being on the first page), I would think you and other forumers would prefer that you wait 24 hours rather than 16 hours.

Now let's suppose that, for some reason, the Scratch Team did implement such a restriction, against my wishes, so that your arguments do have merit. Luckily, there are easy fixes for these:

k0d3rrr wrote:

First of all, this could cause what could be called “forum traffic”. For instance, on an April Fools' Day topic, say someone wanted to bump up the topic to avoid having their topic closed.

At this point, there are two solutions already, anyway. One is “Trust that the Scratch Team can tell the difference between a real suggestion and a joke suggestion.” Another is, if the Scratch Team does close it, use the Report button and ask a moderator to reopen it.

I'm not sure of the utility of pointing out problems with this suggestion as it relates to April Fools' — which only happens 1-2 days of the year in the forums — considering the original suggestion is completely unrelated to April Fools' Day.

k0d3rrr wrote:

Second, this hardly seems fair. What if I wanted to bump a topic, only for it to remind me to bump topics only if it's been 24 hours since the last bump, and only if it's not on the first page? (In this example, it's on the second page, but you get my point…)

Then you wait a full 24 hours to bump the topic, per the hypothetical automated restriction. That's not really much of a problem. It's like asking “What if I want to make a new post 40 seconds within making another post?” Well… just wait the full 60 seconds.

Za-Chary wrote:

This suggestion is intended less to be a “rule” or a “feature,” and more of a “social norm.” For example, currently there are no restrictions in place with bumping (although you could likely be alerted for spamming if you bump continuously every 5 minutes). Read this post for more information: https://scratch.mit.edu/discuss/topic/406613/?page=1#post-4043850

In that post, you say that only Forum Helpers and/or mini-mods should enforce this rule. However, that's excluding people like me who joke about, but try to be mostly serious. It's also excluding people who are new to the forums, but understand the rules of the forums.

It's basically like saying “these people who are like the unofficial police of the forums are rich people, drinking $100,000 lemonade and dancing in money, money, money, while everyone else are disobedient necroposters, spammers, jokers, off-topic posters, and much, much more!”

Za-Chary wrote:

That is, I'm not suggesting that the forums automatically prohibit you from posting a new bump. I'm just suggesting that we all collectively agree to, and encourage others to, adhere to new bumping rules (only bump if it's been 24 hours and the topic is not on the first page).

I mostly disagree with that. There are forumers who bump topics from the second and third page, even if it hasn't been 24 hours since the last bump!

I mostly bump forum topics that haven't been posted on for 24 hours and aren't on the first page. Heck, the irony is that I bumped this topic, and it hasn't been bumped for almost a year, and it definitely wasn't on the first page until now!

Za-Chary wrote:

Thus, if we make this a “social norm,” then the problems you outline would not happen — no reminders would exist. However, I would encourage you anyway to not bump topics unless it's been 24 hours and the topic is not on the first page. While there is no “rule” currently in place against bumping a topic that was last posted on 16 hours ago (with it being on the first page), I would think you and other forumers would prefer that you wait 24 hours rather than 16 hours.

I already do that, look above.

Za-Chary wrote:

Now let's suppose that, for some reason, the Scratch Team did implement such a restriction, against my wishes, so that your arguments do have merit. Luckily, there are easy fixes for these:

It wouldn't be because it would be rejected, because it would cause drama in the community about the Scratch Team implementing such a controversial rule.

Za-Chary wrote:

At this point, there are two solutions already, anyway. One is “Trust that the Scratch Team can tell the difference between a real suggestion and a joke suggestion.” Another is, if the Scratch Team does close it, use the Report button and ask a moderator to reopen it.

Don't be preposterous! Of course the Scratch Team knows the difference between actual, real suggestions and joke suggestions!
I can literally see the irony… (No offence.)

And I already use the Report button to reopen topics! Proof. (Well, not quite…)

Za-Chary wrote:

I'm not sure of the utility of pointing out problems with this suggestion as it relates to April Fools' — which only happens 1-2 days of the year in the forums — considering the original suggestion is completely unrelated to April Fools' Day.

Because real suggestions were closed by– Oh, you're right. I didn't realise that.

Za-Chary wrote:

Then you wait a full 24 hours to bump the topic, per the hypothetical automated restriction. That's not really much of a problem. It's like asking “What if I want to make a new post 40 seconds within making another post?” Well… just wait the full 60 seconds.

That's like asking “Is $4.99 actually $5?” That hypothetical question isn't really related, and it's a distraction that doesn't add anything to the discussion.

Just an idea that I had for your suggestion: The first time you try to bump a topic that's both on the first page and has been recently posted within 24 hours, it should warn the user that they're bumping a topic that's been posted within a day and is still on the first page. The second time, it could either warn the user again, saying that there could be consequences if they bump it (which could scare them into not bumping their topic ever), or it could allow the bump to be made, but there might be severe consequences to it.

A very flawed idea, yes. However, this is just my feedback.

k0d3rrr wrote:

In that post, you say that only Forum Helpers and/or mini-mods should enforce this rule. However, that's excluding people like me who joke about, but try to be mostly serious. It's also excluding people who are new to the forums, but understand the rules of the forums.

(1) I never used the word “only” when referring to who can help enforce this proposed societal norm. (2) I use the term “forum helper” to refer to anybody who helps out on the forums, regardless of which studios they have joined.

k0d3rrr wrote:

I mostly disagree with that. There are forumers who bump topics from the second and third page, even if it hasn't been 24 hours since the last bump!

And I am suggesting to change that.

k0d3rrr wrote:

It wouldn't be because it would be rejected, because it would cause drama in the community about the Scratch Team implementing such a controversial rule.

“Controversial rules” have not stopped the Scratch Team from implementing them before. Take the cloud chat policy and Five Nights at Freddy's ban as examples.

k0d3rrr wrote:

Just an idea that I had for your suggestion: The first time you try to bump a topic that's both on the first page and has been recently posted within 24 hours, it should warn the user that they're bumping a topic that's been posted within a day and is still on the first page. The second time, it could either warn the user again, saying that there could be consequences if they bump it (which could scare them into not bumping their topic ever), or it could allow the bump to be made, but there might be severe consequences to it.

I think it would just be easier for everyone if it were implemented as a societal norm rather than an actual law, enforced rule, or feature.

Za-Chary wrote:

(1) I never used the word “only.” (2) I use the term “forum helper” to refer to anybody who helps out on the forums, regardless of which studios they have joined.

(1) Well, the phrasing of your post made it sound like you exclusively meant only forum helpers and mini-mods. (2) We both know it, but there's literally a famous studio called The Forum Helpers, and that's what I thought you meant.

Za-Chary wrote:

And I am suggesting to change that.

To quote many people: “You can't change people. People can change for themselves.”

Za-Chary wrote:

“Controversial rules” have not stopped the Scratch Team from implementing them before. Take the cloud chat policy and Five Nights at Freddy's ban as examples.

Not those controversial rules. I mean rules that make it practically impossible to do anything in the forums without hitting several roadblocks.

Za-Chary wrote:

I think it would just be easier for everyone if it were implemented as a societal norm rather than an actual law, enforced rule, or feature.

But it's not like someone's committing a crime if they're trying to bump a topic that's both on the first page and has already been bumped within 24 hours!
I swear it feels like I'm trapped in a birdcage, unable to escape…

I have added a few bumping rules to my guide to the suggestions forum sticky. Thoughts?

dertermenter wrote:

I have added a few bumping rules to my guide to the suggestions forum sticky. Thoughts?

If this makes sense, and if it's right, then maybe for the rule saying ‘If most posts are bumps and it seems no one wants to discuss your suggestion, stop bumping it’, you could change it to something like ‘If most posts are bumps and it seems no one wants to discuss your suggestion, bump it rarely to avoid necroposts’, and then maybe add something about necroposts so users can understand what these are.

k0d3rrr wrote:

(#174)

dertermenter wrote:

I have added a few bumping rules to my guide to the suggestions forum sticky. Thoughts?

If this makes sense, and if it's right, then maybe for the rule saying ‘If most posts are bumps and it seems no one wants to discuss your suggestion, stop bumping it’, you could change it to something like ‘If most posts are bumps and it seems no one wants to discuss your suggestion, bump it rarely to avoid necroposts’, and then maybe add something about necroposts so users can understand what these are.

It might be better to discuss this on the sticky.

But no. I did not put the last bit because of necroposts, I put it because of these suggestions just clogging up the suggestions forum and them being useless as they cannot be discussed.

I am not adding anything about necroposts because 1. It is not specific to suggestions and 2. It will solve nothing - people don't go to page 1000 of forums and unnecessarily post, they necropost because of a link (probably from google) and then they probably won't visit the forums ever again. The “necroposter” will necropost before they see the warning to not necropost.

See? It's been more than 24 hours since this topic has been bumped, and also, this topic hasn't been on the first page for more than a month, so you can already do this!
Yes I know he's not on Scratch–

bump

(#24)

fdreerf wrote:

--Explosion-- wrote:

Sorry but no support. Due to the recent pandemic there has been SO much activity on scratch that if we all waited 24 hours to bump our topic it could be on the 5th page already, even more for foumrs like Requests and Collaborations.

And once the pandemic is over..?

What do you know?

Semi-support. While this removes a lot of spam, you can implicitly bump a suggestion by replying or adding on to a topic.
What would differentiate a regular post from a bump?

ajskateboarder wrote:

What would differentiate a regular post from a bump?

It actually adds to the conversation.

Za-Chary wrote:

Interestingly enough, none of the stickies in the Suggestions forums describe how to properly bump a topic to the first page. It is generally agreed upon that you should only bump a topic once every 24 hours, OR if the topic is no longer on the first page. My suggestion is to change the OR to an AND.
-snip-

this sticky says that already
it also says and and not or